Doping in other sports?

[MagnificentMerckx]

UFC Tabs Anti-Doping Investigator Jeff Novitzky as VP of Athlete Health & Performance.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/UFC-Ta ... ance-84357

 

[blackcat]

love the orwellian title

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re:

love the orwellian title

yeah great. all these dopers in tri.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,aust? or Nzl's? wtf

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

This is so rich, I was tempted to start a new thread, just for this item. UFC, in case you don't know, is the world's largest (and richest) professional mixed martial arts fighting sanctioning and promotion organisation.

Former U.S. government anti-doping expert hired by UFC

April 6, 2015

The UFC announced the hiring of Jeff Novitzky to assist in its ‘clean initiative education” program. Novitzky joins the organization as Vice Presidetn (sic) of Athlete Health and Performance.

Per the announcement, Novitzky will spearhead the development of the organization’s clean initiative education program.

As part of its broader athlete health program, which includes the Athlete Accident Insurance Plan implemented in 2011, UFC announced in February the development of an expanded drug-testing program that will increase out-of-competition testing and pledged significant financial commitments for targeted testing protocols. Novitzky will play a leading role in the creation and implementation of the program, scheduled to be unveiled in July 2015.

Novitzky did such a stellar job with the Pharmstrong prosecution, what possibly could go wrong?

 

[Bannockburn]

This is so rich, I was tempted to start a new thread, just for this item. UFC, in case you don't know, is the world's largest (and richest) professional mixed martial arts fighting sanctioning and promotion organisation.

Novitzky did such a stellar job with the Pharmstrong prosecution, what possibly could go wrong?

The blame for that flameout lies with André Birotte, who happened to receive a promotion in 2014 and is now a district judge in California.

 

[MagnificentMerckx]

Mets’ Jenrry Mejia Is Suspended 80 Games for Doping Violation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/12/sport ... .html?_r=0

 

[blackcat]

This is so rich, I was tempted to start a new thread, just for this item. UFC, in case you don't know, is the world's largest (and richest) professional mixed martial arts fighting sanctioning and promotion organisation.

Novitzky did such a stellar job with the Pharmstrong prosecution, what possibly could go wrong?

The blame for that flameout lies with André Birotte, who happened to receive a promotion in 2014 and is now a district judge in California.

he has a wife and three children? is that possible?

 

[The Hitch]

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Athletics Kenya has suspended agent groups of Rosa Associati and Volare Sports for 6 months. Even more

He added Dutchman Van der Veen has cases in his camp he could not reveal at since they would compromise the investigations.
The stable handles mainly marathon running studs including record holder, Dennis Kimetto, his predecessor and two-time London champion, Wilson Kipsang as well as two-time Boston and New York winner, Geoffrey Mutai.

Seems to corroborate rumors that a top marathoner has tested positive.

http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/sports/2015/ ... ix-months/

Already, two Ethiopians, Ayele Abshero and Feyse Tadese pulled out of London citing injury (conflicting info about their respective agents). It will be interesting to see who else pulls out...

 

[MagnificentMerckx]

Re:

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

Wasn't a case once taken against Vijay Singh and then dropped.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

Wasn't a case once taken against Vijay Singh and then dropped.

Gary Player said it was becoming a problem back in 2007.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/c ... ayer_N.htm

two years ago Greg Norman called anti-doping procedures in golf a disgrace

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/golf/a ... ceful.html

Singh ended up suing the PGA tour over the handling of his case.
At first he got disciplined for using a deer antler spray on the baned list but case got dismissed...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/09/sport ... .html?_r=0

I've played a little golf and you sure need some power to do the long drives.
But imo brain doping would be even more a game-changer since concentration and body-awareness is essential to perform.. It might not be endurance type of drugs like in cycling but I'am quite sure the golfers pursue any "marginal gains" the can get near.. Also money in golf is ridiculously better then cycling for example Degenkolb eraned the same in prize money for his Roubaix win as no 46 in just finished US Masters..

 

[SeriousSam]

Broadly speaking, doping in any sport is essentially a function of two factors:

-is there stuff that enhances
-can the probability of getting caught be made small

If yes and yes, a significant fraction of athletes is probably going to dope, as has been known since at least Plato's time.

 

[mrhender]

Re:

Broadly speaking, doping in any sport is essentially a function of two factors:

-is there stuff that enhances
-can the probability of getting caught be made small

If yes and yes, a significant fraction of athletes is probably going to dope, as has been known since at least Plato's time.

Agreed...

Incentive to dope is the key..

Type of drugs may vary as to what the sport require in skill set, but i'am guessing there is plenty to choose from on the shelves here and there...

 

[The Hitch]

I agree sam but my question isn't just is there doping but to what extent. I think we all agree that in cycling, 100m and probably football and tennis people dont get near he top without doping. is gold the same

 

[MagnificentMerckx]

Unless there was a drug that could significantly induce a greater than naturally attainable hand-eye coordination response, which to my knowledge does not exist, I cannot see otherwise how existing performance enhancing drugs could have a reasonable and beneficial effect for the golfer.

 

[SeriousSam]

Well, Tiger started to dominate with his very long driving and Tiger was known to be a heavy gym goer. Steroids improve strength and the effect of training a lot. I think golf is sufficiently physical for steroids to be beneficial in training. You can hit it farther and deal with injuries better.

I'd say it's by no means necessary to get to the top, though, with one factor being that there is a lot of variance in golf, whereas in tennis, Djokovic is going to beat you almost 100% of the time.

 

[mrhender]

But doping can eliminate and/or decrease variance that works against your favor right?

Also the difference in earning for a sponsored golfer and one with PGA/European tour ticket is crazy..

Point being that I dunno much about a long culture of doping but if today one had only to do a little better to earn millions as apposed to living on the mercy of minor sponsors i'd say incentive is huge -so normal (doper) logic would be that many golfers doped to get access and why stop there when competition is obviously harder?

It may have been a minor issue in the past but I don't see much reason why golfers (in terms of percentage) should dope a lot less then cyclists..

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

tiger wwoods used the same doctor as aroid who was busted trying to smuggle HGH over the border.

Don't know if that is the golfing equivalent of working with Dr Ferrari but it has to be pretty close.

 

[mrhender]

Re: Re:

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

tiger wwoods used the same doctor as aroid who was busted trying to smuggle HGH over the border.

Don't know if that is the golfing equivalent of working with Dr Ferrari but it has to be pretty close.

Actually there's some interesting discussion of Tiger-dope in this forum:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/80150/the-tige ... -thread/54

They don't have a clinic there, but the thread seems ok balanced

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

Just wondering if anyone has any info on golf. Does doping happen there. I have never played it so don't know what the challenges are. I'm guessing physicality isn't really important since so many people in their 40's are good at it. What about mind drugs things like that.

tiger wwoods used the same doctor as aroid who was busted trying to smuggle HGH over the border.

Don't know if that is the golfing equivalent of working with Dr Ferrari but it has to be pretty close.

Actually there's some interesting discussion of Tiger-dope in this forum:

http://thesandtrap.com/t/80150/the-tige ... -thread/54

They don't have a clinic there, but the thread seems ok balanced

Maybe a little, but there seems to be too much predictable use of the - he hasn't been convicted therefore he must be clean, argument.

A group of people who have watched and followed professional cycling for the last decade and who followed the threads of where the doping scandals went (like puerto and how it connected to tennis, football) are at the end of the day going to be a million times more knowledgable and informed on the issue than fans from any other sport who have not the slightest clue as to how doping works.

Even letsrun is mostly filled by people who seem to think doping stopped when Gatlin got caught.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Unless there was a drug that could significantly induce a greater than naturally attainable hand-eye coordination response, which to my knowledge does not exist, I cannot see otherwise how existing performance enhancing drugs could have a reasonable and beneficial effect for the golfer.

I read last year that in the US mind drugs in college to study - concentrate, deal with stress etc are on the rise.

I'm not saying they do dominate golf, just wondering if they would. Initially people didn't think drugs would have any impact even in pure physical sports (go to the sky or kristoff threads and youll see plenty of people who still seem to hold this opinion )

Then people said it would work in cycling but not in "technique sports" like tennis or football. Well now we know thats bs too.

So maybe its the same for golf, snooker, *** like that. Ostensibly it shouldn't make a difference, but I don't know much about either the drugs producing side nor the performance side of a sport like golf

 

[Catwhoorg]

Golf certainly benefits from being stronger fitter and driving further, but in the end it is a touch game.

So it will help but certainly isn't necessary to get to the top.

There is no pill to take a donkey to a racehorse for golf (yet)

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A hypothesis:

Cycling is a pretty natural motion.

To my way of thinking, golf swings are not. Your body can move like that but it's not a very natural movement, is it?

I think if you need to hit a ball 1000 times / day (deliberate hyperbole), having steroids to help your muscles recover and also to strengthen them to conduct such training, and the other drugs usually associated with them (testosterone and HgH) are going to make a significant impact on how well you play, and thus your performance. Simply because you can play more golf, and thus improve your touch, more quickly than the normally aspirated golfer.

Add in the already mentioned massive earnings potential and differential, as well as the constant movement around the world and "too big to fail" attitude that seems prevalent and the recipe is right, imo, for all the typical doping protocols in use elsewhere.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Simply because you can play more golf, and thus improve your touch, more quickly than the normally aspirated golfer.

not actually the case, the book by Epstein, "The Sports Gene" offers a primer, but still never adequality covers doping.

see the cover of Tiger on Vanity Fair, and Rory McElroy on Mens Fitness for #NotNORMAL. And if they are doing it, A Type Personalities will do the Red Queen Effect/Arms Race, like Hoberman and Yesalis indicate in their literature. Dont look at the metabilites and testing science, look at the social science, the competitive nature of pro sport, and Game Theory in economics...

the best golfers are taking peptides. Have a look at a 19yo McElroy and Eldrick Woods. If they were natural bodybuilders as their fulltime profession, yes it IS achievable. As professional sportsmen in a profession that needs the neuromuscular training, NO, NOT achievable NATURALLY.

They are doping.

See someone with a natural physique, of Tigers era, the USA PGA champion Geoff Ogilvy. normal physique, unlikely to touch it with this skinny physique***

*and yes, that point controverts my position where I invoked yesalis and hoberman talking about A Type personalities, competition, game theory, pro sport.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Golf certainly benefits from being stronger fitter and driving further, but in the end it is a touch game.

So it will help but certainly isn't necessary to get to the top.

There is no pill to take a donkey to a racehorse for golf (yet)

no, you are indeed right.

however.

Vijay Singh was an ordinary golfer in the 80s, and got to the top, #1 in the World, via sheer will and work ethic. And Tiger and he had that lasix surgery for better than 20/20 vision, to get 30/20 vision.

But, my theory on Woods, he became too strong from androgens and hgh, and his body broke down, because the white tissue, the tendons and the ligaments did not work in propotion, strengthenin proportion. Because the androgens dont strengthen the white tissue pro-rata to the red-tissue.

so it serves him right, like Armstrong.