Doping in Soccer/Football

[Dazed and Confused]

The whole backroom got sacked.

And see how Everton are doing too. Although this is more stylistic than running around like mad men.

My personal theory is Ferguson hired Moyes to make him look good.

Gotta say in these situations I favor such action. Typically the alternative often fails badly.

While I think the club has serious structural problems which have yet to play out fully (look out for massive dilution of holdings in the next few years), Moyes clearly isn't helping.

So will Moyes get the boot before summer?

 

[slowspoke]

My favorite story about Ferguson is when he was boss at Aberdeen, one of the players moved in with his girlfriend. The next day he was called into Fergusons office and told to move out or be sold that day. BTW the player hadn't told anyone he was moving in with her. Put the fear of god into the whole squad.

 

[gooner]

Gotta say in these situations I favor such action. Typically the alternative often fails badly.

While I think the club has serious structural problems which have yet to play out fully (look out for massive dilution of holdings in the next few years), Moyes clearly isn't helping.

So will Moyes get the boot before summer?

I was always saying Moyes would definitely get all of next season but if they lose to Olympiachaos after the second leg and likewise against Liverpool at home on Mar 16, I think there will be a near riot at Old Trafford. I couldn't see Moyes surviving.

Lots of rumours are saying Gundogan will sign in the summer which would an excellent addition. That being said can Moyes gel the team, I have strong doubts now. There is no cohesion or understanding of each others game and if you didn't know any better, it's like an unsettled team with a lot of upheavel in the playing side of things which isn't the case. There was going to be a drop off after Ferguson left but this takes the biscuit after last night. Moyes didn't inherit a bunch of mugs either coming off a title win last season. Look at Rogers and the shambles he inherited at Liverpool and where they are now and you see Moyes and what his methods are producing. Even Everton after him leaving are a more free flowing side under Martinez.

BTW I mightn't agree all the time with Roy Keane but he is bang on the money with this "overrated Premiership" comment. You look at the massive Premiership TV deal with Sky/BT at the moment and it should give the English teams a huge advantage. Even BT taking over the Champions League rights in 2015 is nearly double the one currently with Sky/ITV. This along with the likes of Chelsea and City having huge benefactors bankrolling them. I know Chelsea play tonight but the last week or so has been an embarrassment and a welcome reality check. Not one goal from an English club in the Champions League and Europa League is pathetic. Don't even get me started on Spurs's performance against Dnipro last Thursday.

Taking the Premiership on it's own, many of the games have been tedious to watch this season. No doubt though Sky will be back with the hype machine once again at the weekend.

 

[gooner]

My favorite story about Ferguson is when he was boss at Aberdeen, one of the players moved in with his girlfriend. The next day he was called into Fergusons office and told to move out or be sold that day. BTW the player hadn't told anyone he was moving in with her. Put the fear of god into the whole squad.

His interview after Aberdeen won the Scottish Cup final.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I was always saying Moyes would definitely get all of next season but if they lose to Olympiachaos after the second leg and likewise against Liverpool at home on Mar 16, I think there will be a near riot at Old Trafford. I couldn't see Moyes surviving.

Lots of rumours are saying Gundogan will sign in the summer which would an excellent addition. That being said can Moyes gel the team, I have strong doubts now. There is no cohesion or understanding of each others game and if you didn't know any better, it's like an unsettled team with a lot of upheavel in the playing side of things which isn't the case. There was going to be a drop off after Ferguson left but this takes the biscuit after last night. Moyes didn't inherit a bunch of mugs either coming off a title win last season. Look at Rogers and the shambles he inherited at Liverpool and where they are now and you see Moyes and what his methods are producing. Even Everton after him leaving are a more free flowing side under Martinez.

BTW I mightn't agree all the time with Roy Keane but he is bang on the money with this "overrated Premiership" comment. You look at the massive Premiership TV deal with Sky/BT at the moment and it should give the English teams a huge advantage. Even BT taking over the Champions League rights in 2015 is nearly double the one currently with Sky/ITV. This along with the likes of Chelsea and City having huge benefactors bankrolling them. I know Chelsea play tonight but the last week or so has been an embarrassment and a welcome reality check. Not one goal from an English club in the Champions League and Europa League is pathetic. Don't even get me started on Spurs's performance against Dnipro last Thursday.

Taking the Premiership on it's own, many of the games have been tedious to watch this season. No doubt though Sky will be back with the hype machine once again at the weekend.

The balance between creativity and big bloke football simply hasn't followed the rest of the world imo. While I favor "harder" football, its now too tilted towards the beefy boys in PL. And then Mourinho's concept of making wingers play deep in defense isn't helping. Its spreading. Take a look at Valencia at United. Pathetic use of a winger (not that I think hes a top player anyway).

Anyway, at the moment Liverpool is carrying English football as it should be imo.

 

[slowspoke]

The balance between creativity and big bloke football simply hasn't followed the rest of the world imo. While I favor "harder" football, its now too tilted towards the beefy boys in PL. And then Mourinho's concept of making wingers play deep in defense isn't helping. Its spreading. Take a look at Valencia at United. Pathetic use of a winger (not that I think hes a top player anyway).

Anyway, at the moment Liverpool is carrying English football as it should be imo.

Is that the Liverpool side that seems to have done away with the back four?

Back on topic. I do wonder how tactics have been affected by doping? The speed of the modern game and EPL seems insane to me....

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Is that the Liverpool side that seems to have done away with the back four?

Back on topic. I do wonder how tactics have been affected by doping? The speed of the modern game and EPL seems insane to me....

I don't enjoy perfect defense football.
I wan't the top teams to drive forward, with a plan, direction etc. Score one more then the opposition. Love current Liverpool incarnation.
I fall asleep watching Chelsea.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

manchester utd line up

 

[Dazed and Confused]

lol, spot on.

hgghghj

 

[gooner]

Love the Carrick one.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

winning = doping

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/thetoepoke/id/6169?cc=4716&ex_cid=ESPNFC+Facebook

 

[sniper]

matthias sammer (bayern munich manager) goes brailsford.
attributes bayern dominance to other teams' lack of training intensity.
http://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussbal...ainer-kontert-kritik-aus-bayern-a-957554.html

interessant, about actovegin in soccer and mueller wohlfahrt/bayern:

Nur ins Beobachtungsprogramm geschafft hat es Actovegin, ein Stoff aus dem Blutplasma von Kälbern.

"Wichtig ist sicherlich, dass die Untersuchungen, die wir bisher gemacht haben, gezeigt haben: Da ist kein Eiweiß dieser Substanz enthalten, das eigentlich eine Dopingrelevanz erbringen würde."

In der Szene hingegen werden seit Langem mysteriöse Wirkungen kolportiert: Der Radprofi Jesus Manzano berichtete, ein Cocktail mit dem Mittel werde vor schweren Etappen gespritzt. Bei der Tour de France 2000 entsorgte das Team von Lance Armstrong leere Actovegin-Beutel im Müll. Und 2008 irritierte den verletzten französischen Fußballer Patrick Vieira, dass Bayern-Doktor Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt ihm die Substanz injizieren wollte. In Frankreich war Actovegin nicht zugelassen. In den USA ist es das bis heute nicht.

http://www.deutschlandfunk.de/unbek...-verboten.1346.de.html?dram:article_id=195987

 

[the sceptic]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...tm_medium=RSS Feed&utm_campaign=Scottish News

Two Barclays Premier League clubs have commissioned genetic profiles of their players to identify their strengths and potential weaknesses, it can be revealed.

Im going to take a wild guess and say that one of the teams is liverpool. Its been most strange to see how they have turned into Barcelona in such a short time.

This seems like a very dodgy area to me. If you are doing this, what is going to stop you from "fixing" the genes as well?

 

[Almeisan]

Yeah, the insane physical power and strength Barcelona display is superhuman. They just overpower everyone with steroid-fueled muscle and keep their endurance going with EPO. Most obviously doped team ever. 100 reliance on factors doing can affect and ignoring tactics and skill completely.

And Messi, yet another hattrick. How many skill pills did that guy dare to pop. They must have given him a brain transfusion and put two brains in the skull of one, then wired it up with positronic connections for near-lightspeed processing from mind to body.


Lol at the guy above. Has no clue how genetics work.

If you can read the genes from the DNA from 1 cell from 1 individual one might just as well change the genes in both chromosomes in millions of cells. Basically the same thing. And both is cheating equally anyway, so it's not like it is any different in that respect either.


Genetic screening is only like 10,000 euro now. If you have a kid and you are teaching him to become a midfielder but his genes tell you he will have the height and muscle of a central defender with a 3 meter rotating radius, you are wasting your time trying to teach him to be the new Pirlo since he will have the body of a Lucio or Nesta.

 

[Catwhoorg]

This seems like a very dodgy area to me. If you are doing this, what is going to stop you from "fixing" the genes as well?

The ability to do so.

No one has found a way to alter genes, at will, throughout the whole human body.

Genes can be disabled pretty well in a targeted manner, or new genes inserted more or less randomly.
There are a very few specific genetic diseases that have viable treatment options, but generally at very prohibitive cost. (I have seen figures in excess of $1 million cited)

Taking a gene and substituting a 'better' version for now remains mainly in the realm of science fiction.

 

[the sceptic]

The ability to do so.

No one has found a way to alter genes, at will, throughout the whole human body.

Genes can be disabled pretty well in a targeted manner, or new genes inserted more or less randomly.
There are a very few specific genetic diseases that have viable treatment options, but generally at very prohibitive cost. (I have seen figures in excess of $1 million cited)

Taking a gene and substituting a 'better' version for now remains mainly in the realm of science fiction.

thanks for the reply. I dont claim to know what I am talking about here, just wondering how far away this could be from reality. Because if it was possible to even experiment with this, Im sure someone would try it.

Even so.. it seems quite dodgy from an ethical pov to have genetical profiles for the athletes.

 

[Almeisan]

They profile athletes on all parameters they can observe.

If you had an ethical problem with millions fueled professional sports, sure.

Pro sports isn't ethical.

 

[Briant_Gumble]

I'm reading "The Secret footballer" right now.

I have to say I don't find it very secret at all, seems very respectful of the omertà within football and I'm not just talking about with respect to drugs.

He says drug taking "barely exists" within football and trashes a channel 4 documentary "dispatches" on drug taking in football. Has anyone seen that by the way?

 

[HSNHSN]

He says drug taking "barely exists" within football and trashes a channel 4 documentary "dispatches" on drug taking in football. Has anyone seen that by the way?

It can be found here.

The most interesting observations, in my opinion, are:
- There's no mention of blood doping or growth hormone in the documentary at all.
- There are only 1500 doping tests yearly by the FA - averaging a professional player being tested about once in three years. In Italy this number is up to 4500 which still is a very small amount, when compared to the number of football players.
- You have to really try very hard in order to get convicted for taking testosterone as a PED by the UKAD.

Which is to say, there wasn't that much in the documentary.

 

[gooner]

I'm reading "The Secret footballer" right now.

I have to say I don't find it very secret at all, seems very respectful of the omertà within football and I'm not just talking about with respect to drugs.

He says drug taking "barely exists" within football and trashes a channel 4 documentary "dispatches" on drug taking in football. Has anyone seen that by the way?

I was tempted to buy this recently myself.

As for the bolded, I watched it and it was useless. There was one instance where they said they came across documents that showed a former high profile England player with high testosterone levels but it was a lot on recreational use as well. They broke the news that Garry O'Connor tested positive for cocaine and it was the reason why he wasn't playing at the time. The FA, Birmingham and his manager there Alex McLeish never disclosed this publicly when it happened. Some of it was already known like Richard Sadler when he was at Millwall saying he got products where he was later told that they were actually banned. They went over to Muller-Wohlfart in Germany to talk to him about his techniques.

You didn't miss a great deal. The documentary got widely criticised afterwards.

 

[McLovin]

I don't know it this have been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNaasF87CY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpznsA1yobE

 

[HSNHSN]

I don't know it this have been posted before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKNaasF87CY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpznsA1yobE

It's a pity the poster of the first video was wise enough to disable commenting. The comments on the second one are hilarious at times.

 

[the sceptic]

liverpool are gonna win the league. who couldhave guessed that.

Steve Peters really is a miracle worker.

 

[del1962]

liverpool are gonna win the league. who couldhave guessed that.

Steve Peters really is a miracle worker.

I think his jedi mind tricks worked on the ref today, not that it bothers me who wins the league from those at the top.

 

[sniper]

borrussia with an impressive win on bayern.
funny how in the press borrusia's incredible stamina is sold as if it were some genious tactical move.
a bit like how froome's win on the ventoux was sold as a tactical stroke of genius by walsh.