Doping in Soccer/Football

[sniper]

Meaning, the dutch in the 70s - international: 74 and 78/ club: ajax 71;72;73 clearly had the best program.

Ajax' performance in that era compares to Barca's in the present.
So yes, I will readily admit that Ajax was doped, and perhaps in superior ways.

But how does two times runner up in a span of 4 years compare with Spain's triple in the same span?

And where was the rest of Dutch sporting success in that era?
Where do you see the "remarkable accumulation of world class performances, progressions, and big results"?

Spanish football and Spanish sports as a whole in the 2000s is in a league of its own.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Spain are out

 

[sniper]

Spain are out

my confidence in olympic testing is growing by the day..

joking aside, one could I assume make the point that Spain is particularly weary of not having any positives at this year's olympics, with the eye on Madrid's candidature for, what was it, 2016?

So how many medals do spain have up till now?

EDIT: edited back

 

[hrotha]

my confidence in olympic testing is growing by the day.

joking aside, one could I assume make the point that Spain is particularly weary of not having any positives at this year's olympics, with the eye on Madrid's candidature for, what was it, 2016?

So how many medals do spain have up till now?

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that this team had very little to do with the A-team?

I'll start trusting Olympic testing when they bust a star. Preferably one of them NBA American players.
edit: you edited your post

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I watch both of their games on and off and it seems they were not very interested.

 

[poupou]

Spain are out

I would have a look to their running statics and other teams too. I would bet that they are all running a bit less in London.

 

[King Boonen]

wrong thread...

 

[Albatros]

Ajax' performance in that era compares to Barca's in the present.
So yes, I will readily admit that Ajax was doped, and perhaps in superior ways.

But how does two times runner up in a span of 4 years compare with Spain's triple in the same span?

And where was the rest of Dutch sporting success in that era?
Where do you see the "remarkable accumulation of world class performances, progressions, and big results"?

Spanish football and Spanish sports as a whole in the 2000s is in a league of its own.

0 medals so far in the Olympics. And the Olympic football team is out in the first stage.

Whatever the senior footballers are taking is not working for the rest.

I think it is a simplistic view to explain the sport sucess down to doping...ONLY. Spain do very well in collective sports, but technically they are excellent across many disciplines. And technique is a very important part of the success equation.

 

[Albatros]

I would have a look to their running statics and other teams too. I would bet that they are all running a bit less in London.

Actually I guess they are running more because they don't control the games half as good as the senior team. And their midfield is much more athletically powerful than the senior team, but far worse in football ability.

And they didn't have their best playmaker available, Thiago, which if we follow the clinic interpretations, would be their best doped player.

 

[Albatros]

Ajax' performance in that era compares to Barca's in the present.
So yes, I will readily admit that Ajax was doped, and perhaps in superior ways.

But how does two times runner up in a span of 4 years compare with Spain's triple in the same span?

And where was the rest of Dutch sporting success in that era?
Where do you see the "remarkable accumulation of world class performances, progressions, and big results"?

Spanish football and Spanish sports as a whole in the 2000s is in a league of its own.

I am old enough to have watched that Ajax team and Holland and I can tell you that they were probably along with Germany the most athletic team of the seventies by a margin. Spain these days do not show that athletic superiority over the rest.

 

[Benotti69]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10420534

A 29-year-old Swedish soccer player collapsed and died of a suspected cardiac arrest, minutes after giving his team the lead in a league match on Sunday.
Pitea player Victor Brannstrom had scored after just four minutes against Umedalen in their Division Two North clash on Sunday when he suddenly sat down and slumped over, according to local newspaper Norrlandska Socialdemokraten.

How many is that in less than the space of a year?

4 or 5.

Too many to be natural.

 

[the big ring]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10420534



How many is that in less than the space of a year?

4 or 5.

Too many to be natural.

You know. I have read in the past that fit, young athletes are reliably prone to heart attacks.

But if that is based solely on the statistic of

cause of death AND age

and no blood work is done at autopsy (for eg: EPO markers) then it's possible that it is all a furphy, and what we are seeing is the tragic continuation of poorly managed doping practices resulting in deaths.

A scary thought.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Well I can tell you first hand, that Football is filled with doping, even on the youth teams and smaller clubs!!! Although the doping I've seen/tries is nothing crazy like the big fish in cycling IE.. but doping is doping right ?

 

[sniper]

You know. I have read in the past that fit, young athletes are reliably prone to heart attacks.

But if that is based solely on the statistic of

cause of death AND age

and no blood work is done at autopsy (for eg: EPO markers) then it's possible that it is all a furphy, and what we are seeing is the tragic continuation of poorly managed doping practices resulting in deaths.

A scary thought.

I also wondered about autopsy and about what's being shoved under the table in all these cases where young athletes die unexpectedly.

This recent article suggests cardiac arrests among athletes correlates with excessive hours of endurance training.

"Excessive endurance training causes heart damage and can be life threatening"
"It concerns athletes who train five to ten times as much as the doctor recommends."
http://www.spiegel.de/spiegelwissen...ort-kann-lebensgefaehrlich-sein-a-851026.html

There is no mention of doping, but IMO it's not difficult to see a correlation, as it is the PEDS that allow you to overtrain, i.e. to not feel the pains and exhaustion which would normally force you take a break.

I guess as long as it is just the Muambas and the second division Swedish soccer players who collapse on the pitch, not much is gonna change.

 

[Benotti69]

I also wondered about autopsy and about what's being shoved under the table in all these cases where young athletes die unexpectedly.

This recent article suggests cardiac arrests among athletes correlates with excessive hours of endurance training.

There is no mention of doping, but IMO it's not difficult to see a correlation, as it is the PEDS that allow you to overtrain, i.e. to not feel the pains and exhaustion which would normally force you take a break.

I guess as long as it is just the Muambas and the second division Swedish soccer players who collapse on the pitch, not much is gonna change.

Since when did footballers do extensive endurance training?

They are not running marathons although they do cover a considerale distance druing 90mins, up to 10kms depending on the player.

Football has been very good at keeping the lid on its darker 'training' methods.

 

[the big ring]

Since when did footballers do extensive endurance training?

They are not running marathons although they do cover a considerale distance druing 90mins, up to 10kms depending on the player.

I was going to joke about goalies not needing to cover much distance, but thought I'd do a check first...

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sp...ier-dies-of-heart-attack-at-40-164871526.html

BERLIN - The German football federation says Bernd Meier, a former goalkeeper for 1860 Munich and Borussia Moenchengladbach, has died. He was 40.

But yeah. Heart attack is a good word to search for on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_footballers_who_died_while_playing

 

[KayLow]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10420534



How many is that in less than the space of a year?

4 or 5.

Too many to be natural.

Hard to say. There are tens of thousands of professional football players in all of Europe. Four or five cardiac events is not really that many relative to the number of players and relative to the number of hours played. Some may be doping related, but with so little data it is hard to know.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was going to joke about goalies not needing to cover much distance, but thought I'd do a check first...

Back on those Parma tests in the 90s with the ludicrous high hematocrit values, the highest of all was the sub goalkeeper if I remember correctly.

 

[neineinei]

Henke Larsson and the Swedish Football Association

Manager Henke Larsson forced a doping inspector to leave the room where he was waiting for two of the Landskrona BoIS players for testing. The Swedish Football Association disciplinary committee ruled that Larsson hadn't done anything wrong, and said that he didn't know that the person was a doping inspector and even that he hadn't any reason to have realized that the person could be a doping inspector. (In other words: The Swedish Football Association says Swedish football players and managers aren't used to doping controls.)

http://hd.se/sport/2012/09/12/henke-riskerar-dopingboter/ (Swedish)

 

[neineinei]

Matias Almeyda autobiography

Matias Almeyda claims in his biography that he got IV transfusions before matches in Parma. Supposedly it was vitamins, but it made him "able to jump up to the ceiling".

http://it.ibtimes.com/articles/36384/20120926/almeyda-doping-biografia-parma-inter.htm (Italian)

 

[sworks]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/feedarticle/10420534



How many is that in less than the space of a year?

4 or 5.

Too many to be natural.

A player in division 2 doping? Is that what you mean? You must be kidding. Div. 2 in Sweden is far from professional football.

<http://norran.se/2012/09/arkivet/pitespelare-avled-efter-kollaps/>

 

[pelodee]

TH recalled short conversation with Postal doc Luis del Moral from 1999: "you guys take nothing in comparison to footballers."

https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/249980049548251136

 

[Bavarianrider]

Does he refer to Euoropean or American football?

 

[Slava101]

There have been accusations of EPO use within in top level football. I remember it being mentioned in a medical paper about preventing blood doping and EPO use within Sport.

In 2000 the Italian Soccer Federation ran a campaign called 'lo non rischio la salute!', English translation something like 'I take care of my health'. Which looked to suspend players whose hematocrit levels fluctuated too much. On the grounds of health concern.

The studies into the hematocrit values of Italian football teams concluded that
'Hematocrit values ranged from 37.2% to 47.3% (with less than 2% of values being ≥ 47%), and hemoglobin levels ranged from 12.8 to 16.5 g/dL. Interestingly, mild-field players showed the lowest hematocrit values (37-40%) and hemoglobin (between 13 and 14 g/dL),

Which seem to suggest there is at least some doping in soccer.

 

[pelodee]

Does he refer to Euoropean or American football?

- Medical Adviser for various football teams, most notably Barcelona CF and Valencia CF

http://performa.es/English/equipo.html

Spanish footballers, I'd guess.

https://twitter.com/DavidWalshST/status/249981462156296192