Doping in Soccer/Football

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Haha. This is hillarious:

Messi manages a top speed with the ball faster than one of the best NFL running backs does while doing a timed sprint.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyr0oVJSXE

Yep, good illustration of Messi's...erm...'amazingness.'
Really impressive too though cos the NFL players are about as juiced up as you can get.

(As an aside, what a incredibly annoying effing video. Why the hell does American TV present stuff like this. I felt like smashing the laptop half way through).

look at the size of his head Dan2016, and he was on the hgh when he was a child to make him grow. this is on-the-record. not a conspiracy.

Seriously? Why was he on hgh as a kid? Is that not complete nuts or did he have a medicalized stunted growth? (whatever I mean by that gobbledygook phrase). Please tell me the hgh wasn't purely for football. And you've obviously got much better vision for what to look for, I can't detect anything unusual about his head size.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Messi had/has a growth hormone disorder and was given human growth hormone to treat the condition. The treatment was paid for by Barcelona after they signed him as a 13 year old. This allowed him to grow to normal height and avoid the other health issues relating to his medical problem.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

Not sure if directed at me but no! there's no reason to assume that. Probably up to their eyeballs on everything innit.

We are talking about Italian football Seria A going back 30 years ago - Different drug codes ( if any at all ) were in existence at that time - There was no WADA so sports ran their own race - Because a sporting team used substances that are banned in 2017, doesn't mean they were banned in 1987 - My guess is few have thought through the issue.

Basically Zeman then coach of Roma complained that Juventus were doping - An Italian Magistrate from Turin started an investigation which finally jailed the Juventus Doctor Agricola for 22 months - During the investigation they found Juventus were using 281 drugs, most which weren't prohibited at that time - Though strong convictions they were using EPO. And as an offshoot of this was 36 players/ex suffering from Lou Gehrig disease with at least 13 confirmed deaths

Yep, was just a reply to previous poster agreeing we can't make assumptions, I wouldn't pretend to know much about the footballing nitty-gritty. You seem to know more, do you know what was on the go at that time? I'm interested. Reports of deaths due to doping etc. I wonder if EPO was on the go. Certainly copious amounts of steroids I imagine.

 

[Dan2016]

Re:

Messi had/has a growth hormone disorder and was given human growth hormone to treat the condition. The treatment was paid for by Barcelona after they signed him as a 13 year old. This allowed him to grow to normal height and avoid the other health issues relating to his medical problem.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world

Thanks for the link GreenMonkey, really interesting stuff. I'm reading about idiopathic short stature now, just out of general curiosity.

And @blackcat, if you read this, I think I see what you mean about the size of Messi's head in the picture on GreenMonkey's link. You've got much better eyes for this than me but I think I see it.

 

[Dan2016]

Re: Re:

Is there any reason to assume they weren't also taking loads of illegal substances though?

Not sure if directed at me but no! there's no reason to assume that. Probably up to their eyeballs on everything innit.

We are talking about Italian football Seria A going back 30 years ago - Different drug codes ( if any at all ) were in existence at that time - There was no WADA so sports ran their own race - Because a sporting team used substances that are banned in 2017, doesn't mean they were banned in 1987 - My guess is few have thought through the issue.

Yep, was just a reply to previous poster agreeing we can't make assumptions, I wouldn't pretend to know much about the footballing nitty-gritty. You seem to know more, do you know what was on the go at that time? I'm interested. Reports of deaths due to doping etc. I wonder if EPO was on the go. Certainly copious amounts of steroids I imagine.

Basically Zeman then coach of Roma complained that Juventus were doping - An Italian Magistrate from Turin started an investigation which finally jailed the Juventus Doctor Agricola for 22 months - During the investigation they found Juventus were using 281 drugs, most which weren't prohibited at that time - Though strong convictions they were using EPO. And as an offshoot of this was 36 players/ex suffering from Lou Gehrig disease with at least 13 confirmed deaths

Thanks Yaco, that's very interesting. Terrible situation and outcome for those players. I'm going to do some googling on this, so thanks for specifying the names etc. I've read before that there is debate as to whether any cycling deaths can be directly attributed to drug use, and of course we see plenty ex cycling pros and ex pros from various sports in apparently good health. I wonder if the safety side of doping has improved, if what the Juve players were doing was complete madness that would never happen with todays knowledge.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Messi had/has a growth hormone disorder and was given human growth hormone to treat the condition. The treatment was paid for by Barcelona after they signed him as a 13 year old. This allowed him to grow to normal height and avoid the other health issues relating to his medical problem.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1492546-lionel-messi-and-hgh-the-truth-about-the-best-footballer-in-the-world

Thanks for the link GreenMonkey, really interesting stuff. I'm reading about idiopathic short stature now, just out of general curiosity.

And @blackcat, if you read this, I think I see what you mean about the size of Messi's head in the picture on GreenMonkey's link. You've got much better eyes for this than me but I think I see it.

no professional players in sport, will have small heads like donald bradman(cricket), corey pavin(golf), kareem abdul jabaar*(basketball), rod laver(tennis), kevin bartlett(australian rules football), michael rasmussen*(cycling).

rasmussen was still on a truckload of growth factors, but his head did not explode, kareem on the other hand, he is exception to the rule, he had a pinhead on a large man.

but there will be no professional sportsmen/sportswomen, with pinheads, because they will imbibe copious growth factor androgens.

 

[yaco]

The finding of 281 different drugs in the Juventus medical cabinet, along with Salazar experimenting with combinations of different substances (mostly legal), shows the mentality of professional athletes - They will take all sorts of substances to obtain an edge, even though many of the substances are useless.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

The finding of 281 different drugs in the Juventus medical cabinet, along with Salazar experimenting with combinations of different substances (mostly legal), shows the mentality of professional athletes - They will take all sorts of substances to obtain an edge, even though many of the substances are useless.

and WADA regulations mean naught

the mean meta-mean, in terms of said regulations must be subverted

john nash game theory

 

[Robert5091]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/39333763
Elite footballers' "abuse" of legal painkillers risks their health and could "potentially" have life-threatening implications, says Fifa's former chief medical officer.

About half of players competing at the past three World Cups routinely took non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen, claims Jiri Dvorak.

He says it is still an "alarming trend" among players, including teenagers.

"It has become a cultural issue, part of the game," said Professor Dvorak.

"It is absolutely wrong," added the Czech, who left Fifa in November after 22 years.

"For me it's clearly abuse of the drugs - that's why we use the word alarming."

However, the Professional Footballers' Association - the players' union in England - said misuse of painkillers was "not a major issue" among its members.

...
Professor Dvorak previously raised these concerns when he was employed by Fifa, but claims that the world governing body has still not addressed the issue appropriately.

Fifa says its stance on the issue has not changed since Dvorak first warned about the long-term implications of players misusing painkillers in 2012.

The misuse of legal medication could "potentially" have life-threatening implications for players, claims Professor Dvorak.

 

[The Hitch]

Haha.

was doing a minute morning trawl through some tabloid nonesence and saw this picture.

From yesterday.

That's HMW is it not, still working for the German national team

 

[Robert5091]

“Healing Hans” indeed ...
for those who want to know more
http://europe.newsweek.com/bastian-...ter-united-hans-muller-wohlfahrt-440395?rm=eu
and CONNECT 2017: International congress on connective tissue
http://www.innovations-report.com/h...ernational-congress-on-connective-tissue.html

 

[blackcat]

healing hans ftw

 

[BullsFan22]

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/doping-in-football-is-yet-to-be-seriously-challenged-093115106.html

 

[DanielSong39]

It's widely accepted that Messi was given HGH and no one seems to have a problem with it; that pretty much speaks for itself.

 

[Zypherov]

It's widely accepted that Messi was given HGH and no one seems to have a problem with it; that pretty much speaks for itself.

He was given HGH as a teenager because he was diagnosed with a growth hormone disorder, or GHD. Not what you would call doping.

 

[Robert5091]

Saido Berahino: Drugs ban
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39450446
I got slipped a Micky Finn ...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-s-drug-ban-casts-cloud-West-Brom-return.html
"...the question of whether Stoke manager Hughes was the right man to rehabilitate a player whose positive drug test followed a drink-driving offence and a hippy crack controversy."
Mmmm ....

 

[buckle]

Zlatan's varicosity

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/24/zlatan-ibrahimovic-knee-injury-legs/

Zlatan's legs have nothing to do with hormone imbalances caused by anabolic drugs ...

 

[ontheroad]

Re: Zlatan's varicosity

http://www.tmz.com/2017/04/24/zlatan-ibrahimovic-knee-injury-legs/

Zlatan's legs have nothing to do with hormone imbalances caused by anabolic drugs ...

This guy has played practically every minute of every match he has been available for this season and at 36 years of age he has got better into his 30's. Has been well educated in preparation methods with various different clubs across continental Europe. That vascularity isn't normal.

 

[sniper]

Seppelt has his weird antiRussia bias.

But Seppelt is still Seppelt. And he's still the only one delivering the goods:

https://twitter.com/hajoseppelt/status/873288785236197376

 

[iejeecee]

This is from that Seppelt documentary:

"Roberto Carlos dragged into doping scandal amid claims the Brazil legend took performance-enhancing drugs around the 2002 World Cup"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4592154/Roberto-Carlos-dragged-2002-World-Cup-doping-scandal.html

I would be more impressed if Seppelt looked into the the history of his own national team (the winningest team in football history) instead of constantly pointing fingers at others, but it's a start I guess. Although football seems to be protected from all sides as either too big or too important to be dented by any type of doping scandals.

 

[BullsFan22]

Seppelt has an agenda, no doubt about it. His anti-Russian hysteria is borderline xenophobic. His documentaries are political propaganda. He's also going after Jamaicans, Kenyans, Ethiopians, Brazilians....When was the last time he and ARD (German state television) went after their own football team? He knows full well that if he goes down that road it won't be easy for him, because it's easy to rip into other countries, particularly those that his country has had a tense relationship with. I've stopped caring what he posts. I'll start caring again when he talks about the doping around the German team in the 1954 world, the Bundesliga in the 70's, 80's and doping in West Germany in general. Where are those stories? Where is the story about high profile German athletes working with the Freiburg and Vienna labs? ARD continuously going after certain countries is political. The more I think about their motives and how they are zeroing in on particular countries, the more I understand what this is all about. His goal was for the IOC to block Russia from competing at Rio, and when he didn't get his wish, he pouted on Twitter, like he usually does. ARD and BBC have really dove into the political propaganda and the hysteria is off putting. I haven't gone to his Twitter account in a long while.

 

[The Hitch]

To be fair though, if he goes after an actual star team (like Brazil 2002) then that's a very good start. The problem with Russia wasn't that they were going after Russia but that they were going after nobodies. Gold medal winners that had no prestige and were easy to dismiss.

The reason why the media has to constantly defend their heroes like Bolt or Sky or Radclife is because those sports are somewhat associated with doping.

Football is teflon.

Roberto Carlos usually makes it into worlds greatest ever xi lists. If he gets outed as a doper, and the 2002 Brazil team gets outed as having had a doper when they won it, that takes the teflon off the sport, and the silent majority will wonder whether footballers do dope on a grander scale.

Indirectly, thats bad for Seppelt's German national team. So I support him going after whoever he wants, as long as they are actual dopers who made real money and fame doping, and not nobodies who can't even pay off their mortgage with the weightlifting gold medal.

 

[sniper]

Re:

To be fair though, if he goes after an actual star team (like Brazil 2002) then that's a very good start. The problem with Russia wasn't that they were going after Russia but that they were going after nobodies. Gold medal winners that had no prestige and were easy to dismiss.

The reason why the media has to constantly defend their heroes like Bolt or Sky or Radclife is because those sports are somewhat associated with doping.

Football is teflon.

Roberto Carlos usually makes it into worlds greatest ever xi lists. If he gets outed as a doper, and the 2002 Brazil team gets outed as having had a doper when they won it, that takes the teflon off the sport, and the silent majority will wonder whether footballers do dope on a grander scale.

Indirectly, thats bad for Seppelt's German national team. So I support him going after whoever he wants, as long as they are actual dopers who made real money and fame doping, and not nobodies who can't even pay off their mortgage with the weightlifting gold medal.

Good post.

Agree that at least indirectly it could be bad for the German national team.
Can't wait for a Brazilian TV crew to go undercover on Healing Hans' ass.

The problems I had with the documentary:
- the title ("Brazil's dirty games") was kind of suggesting that it's just those dirty Brazilians;
- the program didn't review previous doping cases in soccer. There are plenty, and Seppelt should have mentioned a few, if only to give credit where it's due. He closed the program claiming that his investigation proved that doping is a problem in soccer. In reality though, his investigation merely adds to an already existing body of evidence to that extent.

But apart from that, yes, a very welcome investigation that should prompt some people to take off the blinders.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

To be fair though, if he goes after an actual star team (like Brazil 2002) then that's a very good start. The problem with Russia wasn't that they were going after Russia but that they were going after nobodies. Gold medal winners that had no prestige and were easy to dismiss.

The reason why the media has to constantly defend their heroes like Bolt or Sky or Radclife is because those sports are somewhat associated with doping.

Football is teflon.

Roberto Carlos usually makes it into worlds greatest ever xi lists. If he gets outed as a doper, and the 2002 Brazil team gets outed as having had a doper when they won it, that takes the teflon off the sport, and the silent majority will wonder whether footballers do dope on a grander scale.

Indirectly, thats bad for Seppelt's German national team. So I support him going after whoever he wants, as long as they are actual dopers who made real money and fame doping, and not nobodies who can't even pay off their mortgage with the weightlifting gold medal.

Good post.

Agree that at least indirectly it could be bad for the German national team.
Can't wait for a Brazilian TV crew to go undercover on Healing Hans' ***.

The problems I had with the documentary:
- the title ("Brazil's dirty games") was kind of suggesting that it's just those dirty Brazilians;
- the program didn't review previous doping cases in soccer. There are plenty, and Seppelt should have mentioned a few, if only to give credit where it's due. He closed the program claiming that his investigation proved that doping is a problem in soccer. In reality though, his investigation merely adds to an already existing body of evidence to that extent.

But apart from that, yes, a very welcome investigation that should prompt some people to take off the blinders.

Another problem, Brazil beat Germany 2-0 in that year's final.

 

[sniper]

It was fun to watch the South Koreans run marathons in full sprint mode, game after game.
Until those squeaky clean Germans brought them to a halt in the semis.