Doping in XC skiing

[dukoff]

http://i.imgur.com/k8ZDl2c.jpg

I can tell a curve when I see one, but please put to words what we're looking at there?

The level of professionalism in parts of the field is simply pathetic. To show up on a world championship with 20% bodyfat..? And some here wonder how you can make a break from that?

And it tells you enough of the rest of the field, that they still managed the silver.

 

[Discgear]

The level of professionalism in parts of the field is simply pathetic. To show up on a world championship with 20% bodyfat..? And some here wonder how you can make a break from that?

You're obviously talking about the 21 year old Swede who is the current number 4 on World Cup leader board in Sprint.

I don't know if female forms or attributes is disqualifying from being a part of the Norwegian team, but I know for sure that in most of the developed countries your remark would be considered just downright sexistic and rude.

 

[Cloxxki]

You're obviously talking about the 21 year old Swede who is the current number 4 on World Cup leader board in Sprint.

I don't know if female forms or attributes is disqualifying from being a part of the Norwegian team, but I know for sure that in most of the developed countries your remark would be considered just downright sexistic and rude.

Surely that can't be what the pictures intend to indicate? The Norwegian lady has muscles upon muscles. The Bjoergen way. If anything, the Swede has a normal skinny female derri?re, while the Norwegian's seem to be about to explode.

If Norwegians are calling Swedes unprofessional fatties now (are they?), that's showing more of their hand than they intended.

 

[dukoff]

You're obviously talking about the 21 year old Swede who is the current number 4 on World Cup leader board in Sprint.

I don't know if female forms or attributes is disqualifying from being a part of the Norwegian team, but I know for sure that in most of the developed countries your remark would be considered just downright sexistic and rude.

http://i.imgur.com/ZVf5imC.png

You should take a look again. No I'm not talking about her.

http://i.imgur.com/k8ZDl2c.jpg

This should be a professional sport, and athletes must accept their physique being discussed professionally. When you have 20% bodyfat, and make silver in a team sprint, that should be a natural part of any serious scientific/analytical discussion of relative performance.

If you don't manage to approach 5% bodyfat, you simply don't make the job of a top athlete. And the reason you are present, is partly due to a lack of competition.

In an optimized field, this wouldn't be possible. An objective view can't avoid accepting that.

 

[goggalor]

This should be a professional sport, and athletes must accept their physique being discussed professionally.

By professionals on the internets.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The notion that the norwegians are doped and gaining "3-5%" (Discgear) but Kalla, Hellner, Halfvarsson and Olsson are clean is obviously ludicrous.

The norwegian talent pool is much larger, so if you give the best talents they can muster a 3-5% advantage, it is highly unlikely that any swede would be up there with them, yet several are.

 

[Kokoso]

here's what a likely doped kriukov said, 'they were in the league of their own'

And what you want to say with that? He just stated obvious.

 

[Kokoso]

You should take a look again. No I'm not talking about her.

http://i.imgur.com/k8ZDl2c.jpg

This should be a professional sport, and athletes must accept their physique being discussed professionally. When you have 20% bodyfat, and make silver in a team sprint, that should be a natural part of any serious scientific/analytical discussion of relative performance.

If you don't manage to approach 5% bodyfat, you simply don't make the job of a top athlete. And the reason you are present, is partly due to a lack of competition.

In an optimized field, this wouldn't be possible. An objective view can't avoid accepting that.

What 20% bodyfat are you talking about? There's nothing like that on the photo.

Look at the Eckhoff in biathlon. She's one of the fattiest yet one of the best skiers, top athlete you'd say.

 

[Discgear]

When you have 20% bodyfat, and make silver in a team sprint, that should be a natural part of any serious scientific/analytical discussion of relative performance.

If you don't manage to approach 5% bodyfat, you simply don't make the job of a top athlete. And the reason you are present, is partly due to a lack of competition.

Ok, so it was the other Swede who is the chubby one. Ironically she's the only one with a set of muscles that remotely reminds of the greatest.

I question that 5% body fat would be ideal or even achievable for female skiers.

This is the ideal for female thriathletes:

Thriathlon Optimal Body Fat Ranges, By Age

Women
20-29 10-16%
30-39 11-17%

Read more at http://triathlon.competitor.com/201...s-of-getting-leaner_81493#VtcKduioSL8w7BPc.99

And finally, where did you pick the number 20% on Ingemarsdotter?

 

[python]

If Norwegians are calling Swedes unprofessional fatties now (are they?), that's showing more of their hand than they intended.

I question that 5% body fat would be ideal or even achievable for female skiers.

both statements are spot on. no i don't think dukoff's statements about a female body fat at 5% are sexist, rather, as you indicated in that table - ignorant.

even in this very thread (not to mention other sources) there were plenty of references and links to scientific articles and studies that point to a couple well known facts of sports physiology - even the world's best male xc skiers RARELY reach 5% body fat

 

[Discgear]

The norwegian talent pool is much larger, so if you give the best talents they can muster a 3-5% advantage, it is highly unlikely that any swede would be up there with them, yet several are.

Or any Italian, Finn, Russian, German and American - you name it! Why is anyone at all trying to compete with the Norwegians with their infinite talent pool?

You know what, in a few years there won't be anyone contesting you.

Hypothetically, if Norwegian XC-skiing is clean, and the dominance is explained by some fantastic new formulas in training or equipment - let's just shake off the late Bengt Saltin! To keep up the interest, it should be a high priority for the Norwegian Ski Federation to share their knowledge in the same way as being done in other marginal sports. The way it's being done in Bandy, Icehockey or different Martial Arts.

Instead we are seeing a "whatever it takes" attitude. Bending the rules - two team warnings so far in the championship for trespassing and testing/training on the closed tracks - and a lot of work behind the scene in adjusting rules, length and profiles of sprint tracks and so on, to suit their top athletes for the moment.

As for now, XC-skiing is dying and it's dying fast! In the future enjoy your national Championships. And also enjoy the feeling of being the only ones standing on a higher moral ground regarding ethics in sports. Just give a damn in what other may think.

 

[dukoff]

I didn't say 5%, I said "approaching", which you can read in the range of 5-10%. It may not be achievable for all females, but neither are podiums. Still optimums are somewhat individual, and it's really beside the point to focus on exact percentages. The real matter is excess weight.

With a general look at body composition, if you have any experience with fat reduction, you will see that the subject has, I would say, about 5kg in excess fat.

 

[Deadbody]

Sorry for going off topic but:

As for now, XC-skiing is dying and it?s dying fast!

Accoring to Ilia Chernousov xc skiing OS growing rapidly in Russia. It's from TV so it's not a fact but national races in russia do have large number of skiiers in them.

Sweden, Norway and Finland have solid number of skiiers as far as i know?

Germany, Italy have seen a steep decline.

USA and Canada? I dont know.

 

[markene2]

What a fun race! Cant wait to hear the Norwegian girls cry at the interviews. And US with 2 girls on the podium. Fun but totaly unexpected. But what the hell is Kalla on?

 

[kosmonaut]

What a fun race! Cant wait to hear the Norwegian girls cry at the interviews. And US with 2 girls on the podium. Fun but totaly unexpected. But what the hell is Kalla on?

Good skis.

Sorry, but you can't draw any conclusion from that race.

 

[pettero]

What a fun race! Cant wait to hear the Norwegian girls cry at the interviews. And US with 2 girls on the podium. Fun but totaly unexpected. But what the hell is Kalla on?

Nobody except Bj?rgen in top shape can match Kalla at her best on a 10k skate, so that shouldn't be a surprise.

 

[markene2]

Good skis.

Sorry, but you can't draw any conclusion from that race.

I know that. It's not from this race, but the WC in general. Massive improvments. But with that said i would take Kalla over Johaug and Bj?rgen all day.

 

[roundabout]

Good skis.

Sorry, but you can't draw any conclusion from that race.

She beat people who raced in comparable conditions by 1 minute plus

 

[Discgear]

Today King Boreas said enough is enough. I guess there will be heads rolling outside the Norwegian multimillion kronor Swedish built waxing bus tonight.

 

[the sceptic]

do nothing all year, then show up to the home worlds destroying everything.

not sure Kalla could be any more obvious.

 

[roundabout]

do nothing all year, then show up to the home worlds destroying everything.

not sure Kalla could be any more obvious.

That's not really true

http://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/ath...tor=CC&listid=&competitorid=98286&type=result

 

[python]

let's try to place the epic norwegian fail in one of the possibilities:

1. the words best ski waxing team, the biggest budget team has simply failed the ski prep. possible ? yes, since all, i stress ALL, norge girls epically failed.
probable ? i don't think its a simple ski prep that suddenly afflicted the word's very bestest stone grinders.

2. some common food stuff/supplement that affected/poisoned the girls last night or this morning. possible ? yes. probable ? no, b/c none have shown symptoms of being sick at the finish nor none of the speculation went that way dring the commentary.

3. Lets call it the Cloxxi factor The total domination for months and years was so suspicious and so intolerable for other teams, that the norge coaches decided to 'slow down'. possible ? yes. Probable ? no, b/c if they would employ the tool, they would map out something more plausible than the epic fail. like say marit 4th, johaug 6th, weng 3d etc...

4. and finally....the miraccle chemical (i did not say a dope ) was suddenly withdrawn/lost/not administered.

yes, it is both possible and probable. perhaps in some combination with the ski prep.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

The notion that the norwegians are doped and gaining "3-5%" (Discgear) but Kalla, Hellner, Halfvarsson and Olsson are clean is obviously ludicrous.

The norwegian talent pool is much larger, so if you give the best talents they can muster a 3-5% advantage, it is highly unlikely that any swede would be up there with them, yet several are.

Or any Italian, Finn, Russian, German and American - you name it! Why is anyone at all trying to compete with the Norwegians with their infinite talent pool?

You know what, in a few years there won't be anyone contesting you.

Hypothetically, if Norwegian XC-skiing is clean, and the dominance is explained by some fantastic new formulas in training or equipment - let's just shake off the late Bengt Saltin! To keep up the interest, it should be a high priority for the Norwegian Ski Federation to share their knowledge in the same way as being done in other marginal sports. The way it's being done in Bandy, Icehockey or different Martial Arts.

Instead we are seeing a "whatever it takes" attitude. Bending the rules - two team warnings so far in the championship for trespassing and testing/training on the closed tracks - and a lot of work behind the scene in adjusting rules, length and profiles of sprint tracks and so on, to suit their top athletes for the moment.

As for now, XC-skiing is dying and it's dying fast! In the future enjoy your national Championships. And also enjoy the feeling of being the only ones standing on a higher moral ground regarding ethics in sports. Just give a damn in what other may think.

Congratulations on completely avoding to adress the point I made.

I'm swedish btw. But not silly enough to think Kalla, Hellner and Olsson can beat the best skiing talents in Norway if they are at a 3-5% disadvantage. Your position is illogical.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

let's try to place the epic norwegian fail in one of the possibilities:

1. the words best ski waxing team, the biggest budget team has simply failed the ski prep. possible ? yes, since all, i stress ALL, norge girls epically failed.
probable ? i don't think its a simple ski prep that suddenly afflicted the word's very bestest stone grinders.

2. some common food stuff/supplement that affected/poisoned the girls last night or this morning. possible ? yes. probable ? no, b/c none have shown symptoms of being sick at the finish nor none of the speculation went that way dring the commentary.

3. Lets call it the Cloxxi factor The total domination for months and years was so suspicious and so intolerable for other teams, that the norge coaches decided to 'slow down'. possible ? yes. Probable ? no, b/c if they would employ the tool, they would map out something more plausible than the epic fail. like say marit 4th, johaug 6th, weng 3d etc...

4. and finally....the miraccle chemical (i did not say a dope ) was suddenly withdrawn/lost/not administered.

yes, it is both possible and probable. perhaps in some combination with the ski prep.

Johaug and Jacobsen are obviously in great form. You really are shockingly thick if you do not realize that ski prep in combination with the drastic change in conditions was the issue today (although Bjorgen and Weng are probably not in TdS form).

 

[Deadbody]

let's try to place the epic norwegian fail in one of the possibilities:

1. the words best ski waxing team, the biggest budget team has simply failed the ski prep. possible ? yes, since all, i stress ALL, norge girls epically failed.
probable ? i don't think its a simple ski prep that suddenly afflicted the word's very bestest stone grinders.

2. some common food stuff/supplement that affected/poisoned the girls last night or this morning. possible ? yes. probable ? no, b/c none have shown symptoms of being sick at the finish nor none of the speculation went that way dring the commentary.

3. Lets call it the Cloxxi factor The total domination for months and years was so suspicious and so intolerable for other teams, that the norge coaches decided to 'slow down'. possible ? yes. Probable ? no, b/c if they would employ the tool, they would map out something more plausible than the epic fail. like say marit 4th, johaug 6th, weng 3d etc...

4. and finally....the miraccle chemical (i did not say a dope ) was suddenly withdrawn/lost/not administered.

yes, it is both possible and probable. perhaps in some combination with the ski prep.

Kalla compleatly destoys the field from a rather late startnumber and we should suspect who? The onces was deastoyed? That like suspecting someone way back when Froome destroys the field. I not a expert but i fail to see the logic.

In theese conditions, today this is probably the most ridicilus performance i have have ever seen on a pair of skiis. Bit i'm no doping expert.

And by suspecting Kalla im not saying anyone else is clean.