Doping in XC skiing

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Re:

kingjr said:
+1 to what Discgear said

The reasoning should not be 'X got off, so Y should get off too' but rather 'Y got banned, which is good, so X should be banned too'.

There's no evidence that the athletes currently suspended tampered with their urine samples. It's all 'alleged' whereas Johaug failed an actual test.

Legkov's tests were negative:

http://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta/doping/spbnews_NI711495_Doping_proby_Legkova_s_OI_2014_dali_otricatelnyj_rezultat

http://wieschemann.eu/en/legkov-legt-berufung-beim-cas-ein-sportler-suendenboecke

Problems with the McLaren report:

https://www.rt.com/sport/375111-lawyer-ski-ban-wada/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/olympics/2017/02/03/mclaren-report-russian-state-sponsored-doping-contains-discrepancies/
 
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@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.
 
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.

I say she gets off scot free.
 
Jan 3, 2016
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BullsFan22 said:
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.

I say she gets off scot free.
Scot free = trip to CAS = 2 years. My prediction: two years from ADN.
 
Blaaswix said:
BullsFan22 said:
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.

I say she gets off scot free.
Scot free = trip to CAS = 2 years. My prediction: two years from ADN.
Two years from the date that she was originally suspended (Mid October) or two years from whenever the verdict comes?
 
Jan 3, 2016
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BullsFan22 said:
Blaaswix said:
BullsFan22 said:
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.

I say she gets off scot free.
Scot free = trip to CAS = 2 years. My prediction: two years from ADN.
Two years from the date that she was originally suspended (Mid October) or two years from whenever the verdict comes?
Two years starting at the original suspension, that's my guess/prediction only, in light of how strictly the Russians are being treated.
 
Tomorrow is the publication date of Erkki Vettenniemi's new book "Suomalainen hiihtodoping - Punssia, pillereitä ja punasoluja" (Dopin in Finnish Xc skiing - Punch, pills and red blood cells). Today he wrote a piece in Helsingin Sanomat, the biggest daily in Finland, laying bare the fact that the Finnish Ski Association was in possession of erythropoietin in late 1980s, before the 1989 Lahti World Championships. According to the piece, the epo was obtained for research purposes, namely for the development of tests for Epo based blood doping (at least officially).

The piece is only in Finnish, but google translate does a half-decent job: http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/art-2000005080313.html

One implication of this is, of course, that epo was well in the scene in the late 80s.
 
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.
There is more. http://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaugs-gladjebesked---positivt-overraskad/
Apparently Johaug is for the moment training in Sjusjøen, which by a mere coincidence the national XC-team also is.
Vidar Løfshus:
She can’t participate in any organized training. But if she meets her friends in the tracks they can ski together.


What the arrogant Norwegian Ski Federation and narrow minded national team fails to grasp, is that numerous actions like these, erodes the picture of Norway as a raw model in good ethics concerning anti-doping work.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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a new doping scandal is gaining steam as i type...the quick report i just heard involved the kazakhsatan biathletes.

the austrian police reportedly found doping meds etc in their hotel. there will be a press conference shortly.

@discgear
the norwegian federation has long seized being a reputable outfit with me. they will get their due ONLY if the other federations unite in limiting their disproportionate sway in the fis... there are some signs the ice has started to break.
 
APA (Austrian Press Agency):
Dopingverdacht: Hausdurchsuchung bei Kasachen 9. Februar 2017, 13:03
Bundeskriminalamt ermittelt bei der Biathlon-WM in Hochfilzen
Hochfilzen –Das österreichische Bundeskriminalamt hat am Mittwoch in Tirol wegen Dopingverdachts eine Hausdurchsuchung im Teamquartier der kasachischen Biathlon-Nationalmannschaft durchgeführt. Dabei seien zahlreiche medizinische Produkte, Medikamente und Mobiltelefone sichergestellt worden, gab die Polizei am Donnerstag bekannt.
Zurzeit wird von den Kriminalbeamten überprüft, ob einerseits Verstöße gegen das Anti-Doping Bundesgesetz vorliegen und andererseits der Tatbestand des Sportbetruges nach dem Strafgesetzbuch erfüllt ist.

Razzia mit 30 Beamten
Der Razzia mit 30 Beamten am Mittwochabend waren Ermittlungen nach dem Fund verdächtiger Gegenstände und Aufzeichnungen vorausgegangen. Im Jänner 2017 sei bei einer Tankstelle in Osttirol von einer Privatperson beobachtet worden, wie die Insassen von mehreren Kleinbussen bei einer Tankstelle einen größeren Karton entsorgt haben.
Darin befand sich eine beträchtliche Menge an gebrauchtem medizinischen Einwegmaterial, wie Einwegspritzen, Infusionen und Ampullen sowie handschriftliche Aufzeichnungen, die auf einen Dopingvorgang schließen ließen. Außerdem seien diverse Akkreditierungen für Veranstaltungen der Internationalen Biathlon Union (IBU) gefunden worden, erläuterte die Polizei.

Hinweis auf Kasachen
Die medizinischen Produkte und Medikamente übergab man einem Kontrollorgan der Nationalen Anti-Doping Agentur Austria (NADA). Diese verständigte nach Begutachtung die Spezialisten des Referats für Wettbetrug, Doping und Arzneikriminalität im BK. Deren Auswertung der Dokumente und der handschriftlichen Aufzeichnungen lasse darauf schließen, dass der Karton samt Inhalt den Kasachen zuzuordnen sei, hieß es weiters.
Deshalb wurde im Auftrag der Staatsanwaltschaft Innsbruck die Hausdurchsuchung genehmigt. Diese fand mit Unterstützung des Landeskriminalamtes Tirol am Mittwochabend statt. Anschließend seien in Abstimmung mit der IBU von der NADA Austria Urin- und Blutkontrollen durchgeführt worden. (APA, 9.2.2017)
I don't want to translate the whole thing, but basically, in january, someone saw people in vans throwing away several boxes of stuff at a gas station. The content of those boxes turned out to be various medical supplies and also notes and other documents that led the police to conclude it belonged to the Kazak biathlon federation.

Following this, today they searched the Kazak hotel rooms and found more medical stuff and phones. Whether or not the evidence is enough to charge them with doping offences under the Austrian criminal code is not definitive yet.
 
Swedish http://www.dn.se/sport/polisrazzia-mot-landslag-far-anda-starta-i-premiaren/
Norwegian http://www.vg.no/sport/skiskyting/skiskyting/politiet-beslagla-medikamenter-hos-vm-deltakere/a/23920446/
English
http://www.tbo.com/ap/sports/police-raid-kazakh-biathlon-team-lodgings-ahead-of-worlds-ap_sportsc956fd693ab04bcd85664f3f8d3162df

The Austrian federal criminal agency said Thursday it raided the lodgings of the Kazakh national biathlon team on the eve of the world championships on suspicion of doping.

Police said they seized medical equipment, drugs and mobile phones late Wednesday, adding that criminal authorities were investigating whether Austrian anti-doping laws have been breached.

Immediately after the raid, anti-doping officials visited the Kazakh team to conduct tests and take blood and urine samples.

IBU general secretary Nicole Resch said Kazakhstan would be able to compete as planned in a mixed relay, the opening event of the world championships, later Thursday.

"We fully trust the investigations by the authorities," Resch said. "Until now, we don't know if banned substances or banned methods are involved. Only then we can take measures."

The Kazakh team for the 2x6-2x7.5-kilometer relay consists of Olga Poltoranina, Anna Kristanova, Maxim Braun and Yan Savitskiy.

Police have been preparing the raid since a cardboard box was found at a nearby petrol station last month. The box contained used medical equipment, including needles, infusions and ampules, as well as written notes and accreditations to several IBU events.

Police said an investigation of the written notes led them to the Kazakh team.
 
Robert5091 said:
Swedish http://www.dn.se/sport/polisrazzia-mot-landslag-far-anda-starta-i-premiaren/
Norwegian http://www.vg.no/sport/skiskyting/skiskyting/politiet-beslagla-medikamenter-hos-vm-deltakere/a/23920446/
English
http://www.tbo.com/ap/sports/police-raid-kazakh-biathlon-team-lodgings-ahead-of-worlds-ap_sportsc956fd693ab04bcd85664f3f8d3162df

The Austrian federal criminal agency said Thursday it raided the lodgings of the Kazakh national biathlon team on the eve of the world championships on suspicion of doping.

Police said they seized medical equipment, drugs and mobile phones late Wednesday, adding that criminal authorities were investigating whether Austrian anti-doping laws have been breached.

Immediately after the raid, anti-doping officials visited the Kazakh team to conduct tests and take blood and urine samples.

IBU general secretary Nicole Resch said Kazakhstan would be able to compete as planned in a mixed relay, the opening event of the world championships, later Thursday.

"We fully trust the investigations by the authorities," Resch said. "Until now, we don't know if banned substances or banned methods are involved. Only then we can take measures."

The Kazakh team for the 2x6-2x7.5-kilometer relay consists of Olga Poltoranina, Anna Kristanova, Maxim Braun and Yan Savitskiy.

Police have been preparing the raid since a cardboard box was found at a nearby petrol station last month. The box contained used medical equipment, including needles, infusions and ampules, as well as written notes and accreditations to several IBU events.

Police said an investigation of the written notes led them to the Kazakh team.

Sounds eerily similar to the way the Austrians were busted in Torino 2006. Not to dissimilar to the Finns in 2001. Seems way to careless. It yells of 'hey, look at me, I've got a box here.' How can you forget all of those things??
 
Jan 3, 2016
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Discgear said:
Blaaswix said:
@ Python: well not a complete free for all, and there is a rule now on spreading out the doses, but still...

Johaug's manager says they are planning on making a documentary, maybe a series, on the Johaug doping case. Seriously. https://www.ostlendingen.no/therese-johaug/langrenn/nyheter/johaugs-fall-og-comeback-kan-bli-tv-serie/s/5-69-366719 Note that the headline refers to Johaug's fall and comeback . Ugh.

There is a lot riding on how the Johaug case is handled.The judgement may be out next week.
There is more. http://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/johaugs-gladjebesked---positivt-overraskad/
Apparently Johaug is for the moment training in Sjusjøen, which by a mere coincidence the national XC-team also is.
Vidar Løfshus:
She can’t participate in any organized training. But if she meets her friends in the tracks they can ski together.


What the arrogant Norwegian Ski Federation and narrow minded national team fails to grasp, is that numerous actions like these, erodes the picture of Norway as a raw model in good ethics concerning anti-doping work.
It has eroded many Norwegians' image of their national team, too, as well as outside the country. Because XC is relatively tiny, internationally, I think you will only see a real change in approach from the Norwegian national team when a sufficient proportion of norwegians, not just XC fans, become disenchanted enough to not buy the sponsors products. Then it will either be a rebuilding of the national team's reputation from the ground (snow?) up, or a continuation of the current siege mentality.
 
I think driving a wedge between athletes is the wrong way to go about it. The doping problem in Russia seems to be systemic and organized, it would be better to adress that together with the Russian athletes. If I was an athlete of Fourcade's calibre I would first try to talk 1 on 1 with the Russian athletes, with a trusted interpreter, try to get them to open up.
 
Re:

kingjr said:
I think driving a wedge between athletes is the wrong way to go about it. The doping problem in Russia seems to be systemic and organized, it would be better to adress that together with the Russian athletes. If I was an athlete of Fourcade's calibre I would first try to talk 1 on 1 with the Russian athletes, with a trusted interpreter, try to get them to open up.
The difference between the nations is how well the organize it. Russians just can't keep a secret, and Norwegians make a mess of their paperwork but get away with it because of their representation in high places, all the way to the top of the Olympus.
I can't hardly imagine Fourcade is clean. If he is, why is no über-doped Russian consistently spanking him? Or a high-on-salbutamol Norwegian? Fourcade could be the Lance of biathlon. Come to think of it, there are parallels.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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BullsFan22 said:
Robert5091 said:
Swedish http://www.dn.se/sport/polisrazzia-mot-landslag-far-anda-starta-i-premiaren/
Norwegian http://www.vg.no/sport/skiskyting/skiskyting/politiet-beslagla-medikamenter-hos-vm-deltakere/a/23920446/
English
http://www.tbo.com/ap/sports/police-raid-kazakh-biathlon-team-lodgings-ahead-of-worlds-ap_sportsc956fd693ab04bcd85664f3f8d3162df

The Austrian federal criminal agency said Thursday it raided the lodgings of the Kazakh national biathlon team on the eve of the world championships on suspicion of doping.

Police said they seized medical equipment, drugs and mobile phones late Wednesday, adding that criminal authorities were investigating whether Austrian anti-doping laws have been breached.

Immediately after the raid, anti-doping officials visited the Kazakh team to conduct tests and take blood and urine samples.

IBU general secretary Nicole Resch said Kazakhstan would be able to compete as planned in a mixed relay, the opening event of the world championships, later Thursday.

"We fully trust the investigations by the authorities," Resch said. "Until now, we don't know if banned substances or banned methods are involved. Only then we can take measures."

The Kazakh team for the 2x6-2x7.5-kilometer relay consists of Olga Poltoranina, Anna Kristanova, Maxim Braun and Yan Savitskiy.

Police have been preparing the raid since a cardboard box was found at a nearby petrol station last month. The box contained used medical equipment, including needles, infusions and ampules, as well as written notes and accreditations to several IBU events.

Police said an investigation of the written notes led them to the Kazakh team.

Sounds eerily similar to the way the Austrians were busted in Torino 2006. Not to dissimilar to the Finns in 2001. Seems way to careless. It yells of 'hey, look at me, I've got a box here.' How can you forget all of those things??
Yes, to forget all those things inside the box is just missing the IQ test. They found it at a nearby petrol station in the midddle of Lienz (a few teams trained in that area before the WC, papi Ole and the German team both trained in Obertilliach)
It's a bit ironic that something like this happened in Austria after Torino 2006, the Austrians really used to be Kelme on snow, reckless as hell.
 
Re: Re:

Cloxxki said:
kingjr said:
I think driving a wedge between athletes is the wrong way to go about it. The doping problem in Russia seems to be systemic and organized, it would be better to adress that together with the Russian athletes. If I was an athlete of Fourcade's calibre I would first try to talk 1 on 1 with the Russian athletes, with a trusted interpreter, try to get them to open up.
The difference between the nations is how well the organize it. Russians jjust can't keep a secret, and Norwegians make a mess of their paperwork but get away with it because of their representation in high places, all the way to the top of the Olympus.
I can't hardly imagine Fourcade is clean. If he is, why is no über-doped Russian consistently spanking him? Or a high-on-salbutamol Norwegian? Fourcade could be the Lance of biathlon. Come to think of it, there are parallels.
That a serious reply?
 
I mean what I say/think, but am not going all out just yet.
We know that making noise about bad dopers is also done by the King Pin dopers themselves. And how can you best the blood dopers?
 
Re: Re:

kingjr said:
Cloxxki said:
kingjr said:
I think driving a wedge between athletes is the wrong way to go about it. The doping problem in Russia seems to be systemic and organized, it would be better to adress that together with the Russian athletes. If I was an athlete of Fourcade's calibre I would first try to talk 1 on 1 with the Russian athletes, with a trusted interpreter, try to get them to open up.
The difference between the nations is how well the organize it. Russians jjust can't keep a secret, and Norwegians make a mess of their paperwork but get away with it because of their representation in high places, all the way to the top of the Olympus.
I can't hardly imagine Fourcade is clean. If he is, why is no über-doped Russian consistently spanking him? Or a high-on-salbutamol Norwegian? Fourcade could be the Lance of biathlon. Come to think of it, there are parallels.
That a serious reply?
The Russians are in all likelihood using 'old models' and they are careless. The Norwegians are using 'new models' and what's more, they are doing so the same way many US and British Olympians are doing-get a TUE and off you go. Plus if you look at the composition of FIS officials, anti-doping officials...heck even in IAAF there are Norwegians in key positions, you'll see they have the backing. That's one of the reasons why A.) Sundby was allowed to race despite failing two doping tests and why FIS hid this for so long and B.) why no inquiry has yet been made into reckless asthma use (on healthy athletes, more importantly) in Norwegian skiing.

As far as the comparison of Fourcade to Armstrong is concerned, I think it might not be there yet, but Fourcade definitely is an arrogant jerk that is using or abusing his power as the top athlete in his sport. The thing is, it would take a lower ranked athlete to speak out against Fourcade, kind of like Simeoni and Armstrong (the 2004 Tour de France stage 18 or whichever it was-look it up on YouTube). He's definitely going a little bit overboard by going on Instagram and leaving his displeasure of the RBU wishing Loginov a happy birthday.
 
Re:

Cloxxki said:
I mean what I say/think, but am not going all out just yet.
We that making noise about bad dopers is also done by the King Pin dopers themselves. And how can you best the blood dopers?
I agree. Just because someone yells and points fingers and talks with big words about doping doesn't mean they are clean. Fourcade has been making meat and potatoes of EVERYONE in the past five or so seasons. The way he attacks and then slows down and then attacks again on these world cup courses is suspicious to say the least. The Hochfilzen course may not be the toughest of WC courses, but it's deceptively hard and the last, long climb is the hardest on the course, and the way he was jump skating and hardly looking tired is just not....normal. His dominance of biathlon, a sport that has so many variables is even more impressive than Sundby. At the rate he is going, he'll pass Bjoerndalen in all categories by the time he finishes his career.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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there is no misunderstanding fourcade. not if one was following his actions outside the sporting face-off.

he has a clearly expressed Attitude with the capital A. and he did everything to drive it home...from abusing loginov in the social and public media pre-race, to intentionally physically tripping him today (yes, there is plenty of video evidence) to demonstratively leaving the award ceremony today and making the ibu president beg him to return as if it was a napoleon...

i can see only 2 reasons for such an overbearing behavior which is quite unprecedented.

1. he genuinely feels antidoping and acts per his feelings
2. he is himself doped and is overdoing the pr/protest angle (yes clxxi has a point)

i dont see why a confident in himself , clean champion should overact so badly as fourcade did :rolleyes:

if i was in his shoes and standing on the top of the heap, i'd welcome a returning athlete, i'd drop a vendetta he clearly has b/c it's raises questions about his overreactions.

note, that no one had the extreme reactions to the russ he had.

i find it suspicious, but i am not fourcade.
 
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