Doping in XC skiing

[jens_attacks]

norwegians were/and are jetfueled like there is no tomorrow. i just hope and pray the russians will destroy them at sochi. a little bit of justice in this world won't harm.

saying that daehlie and co were clean it's like saying ugrumov, marco, riis and indurain were clean...in 1995.
you have to be a special person to believe something like that. there are lots of special persons in this world fortunately

 

[Mr. Brooks]

As would be expected, the author Drange is subject to lots of hostility at the moment. As a Norwegian I still feel the need to point out that Drange is someone who knows what he is talking about, both regarding the situation in Norway and on an international level. He has been involved with anti-doping over a period of ten years and has obviously been very dedicated to his work. There should be more like him, not fewer.

So what does he say? His main ambition is to point out how easy it is to avoid getting caught. The will to catch the dopers is lacking, so are the resources, too few tests are being done, particularly out-of season. Developing test methods for new drugs take much too long. A few of his examples: It took 12 years to develop a test for EPO. In Sweden they did 25 tests for EPO last year, in Norway 160. Both figures are way too low. A large sports nation like the Netherlands doesn’t do blood tests, he says. England has only a total of 160 blood profiles, all sports included. This doesn’t worry just Drange, it gets me worried too.

In describing the failure of the anti-doping efforts, he mentions three cases of suspected Norwegian dopers – no names or sports are revealed, unfortunately, so it’s free for all to suspect anyone. Information like this will obviously get attention, both at home and internationally. What is less communicated is that he also says that his findings indicate that Norwegian sports may have had a few rotten eggs, but that the overwhelming impression from studying the blood profiles is that Norwegian sports are clean. He reports that he has found no reason to believe that there is or has been a collective, systematic doping program in any Norwegian sport. This is the complete opposite impression that the Swedish television program tried to create last winter.

 

[Velo1ticker]

norwegians were/and are jetfueled like there is no tomorrow. i just hope and pray the russians will destroy them at sochi. a little bit of justice in this world won't harm.

saying that daehlie and co were clean it's like saying ugrumov, marco, riis and indurain were clean...in 1995.
you have to be a special person to believe something like that. there are lots of special persons in this world fortunately

I can see you predict a Dutch win in the alpe d'huez of Australia. Is that because they do not test blood - only urine - and no chance getting caught for EPO. The shocking news from Drage’s book is how few athletes they suspected of EPO/blooddoping when they made boolddprofiles. I would like to see evidence showing how many (if any) of the Spanish and Italians athletes that they actually could make a real boodprofile for.
Apparently three Norwegian dopers equals everybody being jetfueled like there is no tomorrow? Is that the reason you have for hoping for a Russian dominance at Sochi? And what is the test regime other favourite of yours endures? Poltoranin who only win at altitude must be your man now that Bauer has switched from high octane to something less explosive. The Vino regime! So it is justice when those you know have systemised doping, and is still doing so wins.

 

[the sceptic]

norwegians were/and are jetfueled like there is no tomorrow. i just hope and pray the russians will destroy them at sochi. a little bit of justice in this world won't harm.

saying that daehlie and co were clean it's like saying ugrumov, marco, riis and indurain were clean...in 1995.
you have to be a special person to believe something like that. there are lots of special persons in this world fortunately

What do you mean? Altitude training can make you 5 minutes faster easily, but only in the 90s

 

[jens_attacks]

don't want to be understood that i hate their athletes. i love watching bjorndalen,johaug and even bjorgen.huge champs. i guess i'm more upset at their supporters with their ridiculous excuses.

sochi...kriukov and poltoranin a tuttaaaaaa!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't know...aren't you and python Norwegians?

...and didn't you react quite angrily to the suggestion that the Czech biathletes had made a big step forward last year too before the suggestion of doping could even be raised?

Come on, yes they may be Norwegians and the Norwegian successes in the 90s in the wake of what we now know about the opposition may be shady as all hell, but play fair.

 

[roundabout]

He didn't loose his form in that week. It was all in the skis. In 2011 Norway's superiority in ski prep was marginal. 15-20 years before I think it was pretty substantial.

Doping program >>> "ski superiority"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994-1995_Cross-Country_Skiing_World_Cup

 

[MrRoboto]

Actually...The world championship in 2011 showed the importance of good skis, as the norwegians (surprise surprise) had excellent skis on their home snow. On the other end the swedes screwed up most of their races with terrible skis.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Is ski selection something cycling could use - blame the equipment for improvements from the 90s / domination of one team over another(s)?

 

[coinneach]

Had a quick look at the clinic and was amazed to find no one had posted about a BRIT winning the sprint race for the Norwegian national championship today.
I await further information, but for the moment am basking in the glow of our "best ever" xc ski result:

http://www.nrk.no/sport/musgrave-vant-nm-sprinten-1.11477246

 

[MrRoboto]

Had a quick look at the clinic and was amazed to find no one had posted about a BRIT winning the sprint race for the Norwegian national championship today.

Because this is the XC doping thread.

 

[ToreBear]

Is ski selection something cycling could use - blame the equipment for improvements from the 90s / domination of one team over another(s)?

Only if you managed to pass this off as a standard bike...

Anyway in cycling it wouldn't work, there are just too few variables. There is not a lot to gain with a more efficient pedalling technique, while in xc you have everything to gain.

The rolling resistance is the same for everyone in cycling, save for a few 0.001% depending on tire choice.

In XC it's impossible to quantify. All you have are anectdotal indications of how much skiis matter.

Here is one I mentioned earlier:

Daniel Richarsson crushes everyone in drammen 15c:
http://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/results.html?sector=CC&competitorid=70446&raceid=17483

12 days later he is 42nd 3 minutes 12 seconds behind the winner at the Holmenkollen 15c.
http://data.fis-ski.com/dynamic/results.html?sector=CC&competitorid=70446&raceid=17537

The two venues are 40km apart. So whats the difference?

Race one:
weather snow condition air snow
Sunny Packed powder -6,6° C -7,0° C

Race two:
cloudy Hard snow -3,6° C -3,8° C

So why did the swedes get it wrong?

The snow in Holmenkollen had been transported and placed there, additionally the venue sits above Norways largest city, and the polution particles get mixed into the snow, ruining the glide if you have the wrong structure, which the Swedes did.

They had good waxing for going uphill, but with probably too small a structure under the soles, the particles were clogging up the skiis ruining the glide.

The skis might have been good during testing, but after a few km, it would be like cycling with your brakes on.

 

[ToreBear]

Had a quick look at the clinic and was amazed to find no one had posted about a BRIT winning the sprint race for the Norwegian national championship today.
I await further information, but for the moment am basking in the glow of our "best ever" xc ski result:

http://www.nrk.no/sport/musgrave-vant-nm-sprinten-1.11477246

Here http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1385814&postcount=973

Actually I think he is Scottish.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Had a quick look at the clinic and was amazed to find no one had posted about a BRIT winning the sprint race for the Norwegian national championship today.
I await further information, but for the moment am basking in the glow of our "best ever" xc ski result:

http://www.nrk.no/sport/musgrave-vant-nm-sprinten-1.11477246

-----------
Here's some info for you - It was an impressive win, Musgrave completely destroyed the field in the final. He also won the prologue/qualification. He beat Hattestad (11 times winner in world cup races), Krogh(winner of the sprint in the tour de ski last time), and all the other norwegian top sprinters except Northug, who did not start.

Norwegian ski legend Alsgaard is full of praise, saying he has abilities that tops even those of the biggest ski-star Northug. Musgrave is on a team led by Alsgaard by the way. He says Musgrave is targeting the olympic sprint, and a medal there is the goal !

 

[the sceptic]

Strange that Alsgaard couldnt use his marginal skiing gains in SLC against Muhlegg.

 

[Armchaircyclist]

norwegians were/and are jetfueled like there is no tomorrow. i just hope and pray the russians will destroy them at sochi. a little bit of justice in this world won't harm.

saying that daehlie and co were clean it's like saying ugrumov, marco, riis and indurain were clean...in 1995.
you have to be a special person to believe something like that. there are lots of special persons in this world fortunately

------------
I'm usually a sceptic when it comes to doping, but why you single out Norwegians and Dæhlie in particular is beyond me. Just because he was winning ? Norway has been #1 in skiing for around 100 years, all is due to superior doping in the north then ? Or maybe it helps to live where there are good conditions for cross country skiing ?

Dæhlie got his blood values up by living in an altitude-house (now banned in Norway), he did beat some convicted dopers (finns) but not that many. Skiing is a sport that is a national sport in Norway, probably the only country in the world that has it like that. So skiing gets the best talent, and there are hundreds of very good skiers at junior-levels. Trainers are well qualified, ski-preparation is at a high level etc etc.

There are many reasons why norwegian skiers are good, and also lots of reasons why skiers from other nations, where skiing is not so important, are far behind.

It would be strange if Norway had team-wide doping for decades, and yet not even 1 person breaks the silence. If we have the insider telling stories about syringes etc, i'll be the first to believe it. But one guy giving out a book saying he had suspicious blood profiles on 3 athletes from different sports, but could not catch them and suspected they stopped doping, well that does not cut it for me as to suspecting all norwegians.

 

[ToreBear]

Strange that Alsgaard couldnt use his marginal skiing gains in SLC against Muhlegg.

What are you talking about now?

 

[Armchaircyclist]

Strange that Alsgaard couldnt use his marginal skiing gains in SLC against Muhlegg.

----------
He did not need to, since Muhlegg was disqualified for his obvious doping. Alsgaard got an individual gold, and the team gold as well in the 4x10, so I think he was quite happy.

 

[roundabout]

Swedes probably got it wrong, but it was also the Worlds (*cough* race winner *cough*) and a race where only the top 10 (if that) counts. Doubt that he was giving it 100% after 5km.

 

[roundabout]

------------
Norway has been #1 in skiing for around 100 years, all is due to superior doping in the north then ? Or maybe it helps to live where there are good conditions for cross country skiing ?

Skiing is a sport that is a national sport in Norway, probably the only country in the world that has it like that. So skiing gets the best talent, and there are hundreds of very good skiers at junior-levels. Trainers are well qualified, ski-preparation is at a high level etc etc.

There are many reasons why norwegian skiers are good, and also lots of reasons why skiers from other nations, where skiing is not so important, are far behind.

Zzzzz.

Read up on Russian women crushing Norway everywhere in 1995 with the exception of 1 race before you post the usual nonsense.

 

[the sceptic]

----------
He did not need to, since Muhlegg was disqualified for his obvious doping. Alsgaard got an individual gold, and the team gold as well in the 4x10, so I think he was quite happy.

I thought amazing technique and better skis was enough to beat dopers? Especially ones with the most terrible technique known to man.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Are there really still people that deny that Norwegians were doped to the grills in the Epo era

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Strange that Alsgaard couldnt use his marginal skiing gains in SLC against Muhlegg.

They worked well in Lillehammer though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD8jzEoRMyY

1) Thomas Alsgaard NOR 1.12.26,4
2) Bjørn Dæhlie NOR 1.13.13,6
3) Mika Myllylä FIN 1.14.14,5 (Best doper)
4) Mikhail Botvinov RUS 1.14.43,3 (Doper)
5) Maurilio De Zolt ITA 1.14.55,5 (Best Conconi-client)
6) Jari Isometsä FIN 1.15.12,5 (Doper)
7) Silvio Fauner ITA 1.15.27,7 (58% Hct doper)
8) Egil Kristiansen NOR 1.15.37,7 (Bronze medalist)
9) Johann Mühlegg GER 1.15.42,8 (Doper)
10) Vladimir Smirnov KAZ 1.16.01,8 (Doper)

 

[jens_attacks]

They worked well in Lillehammer though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD8jzEoRMyY

1) Thomas Alsgaard NOR 1.12.26,4
2) Bjørn Dæhlie NOR 1.13.13,6
3) Mika Myllylä FIN 1.14.14,5 (Best doper)
4) Mikhail Botvinov RUS 1.14.43,3 (Doper)
5) Maurilio De Zolt ITA 1.14.55,5 (Best Conconi-client)
6) Jari Isometsä FIN 1.15.12,5 (Doper)
7) Silvio Fauner ITA 1.15.27,7 (58% Hct doper)
8) Egil Kristiansen NOR 1.15.37,7 (Bronze medalist)
9) Johann Mühlegg GER 1.15.42,8 (Doper)
10) Vladimir Smirnov KAZ 1.16.01,8 (Doper)

what was the minimum requirements to enter this race? hemoglobin over 20?

i always lived under impression that cross-country skiing is an endurance sport based on oxygen intake(for me also one of the most amazing sports that exists and toughest sport athletes too,same as cycling). but now they wanna convince me that in fact cross country skiing is more like figure skating and only one nation knows to prepare some skis. those guys from middle 90's would crush today's skiers with my brother's skiis which are in very bad shape at least


won't surprise me to hear brailsford in july afte froome hammers some record, that it was a a special lubing of the chain

 

[Kokoso]

Poltoranin who only win at altitude must be your man now that Bauer has switched from high octane to something less explosive. The Vino regime! So it is justice when those you know have systemised doping, and is still doing so wins.

You think Bauer doped? Why? Or why you name him?