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What did you have to do with it?Saint Unix said:As a Norwegian, this is a bit embarrassing. I'm sorry for what happened today.
I imagine it's akin to how us Americans felt when Lance Armstrong was 'dominating' the TdF.kingjr said:What did you have to do with it?Saint Unix said:As a Norwegian, this is a bit embarrassing. I'm sorry for what happened today.
The Norwegian team may have won the battle in Lahti, and the Skiforbundet seems to be winning the hearts and minds campaign in Norway, but the war isn't over yet. XC remains in a very troubled position when its most successful national team, by far, refuses to lead by example.Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
Indeed.Blaaswix said:The Norwegian team may have won the battle in Lahti, and the Skiforbundet seems to be winning the hearts and minds campaign in Norway, but the war isn't over yet. XC remains in a very troubled position when its most successful national team, by far, refuses to lead by example.Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
How do you know Harvey isn't more doped?Barkintheeye said:At least the over doped Russian didn't win and good to see that Sundby looks human.
Barkintheeye said:I don't. If so then it is at least better than the new Legkov takes it all.
Saint Unix said:Apparently Johaug isn't a doper because it "wasn't her fault" and the substance "wasn't taken with the intention of it being performance-enhancing".
Norwegians are always saying that any convicted doper will always be chastised by the media, but Johaug is the country's golden girl, so if there's any way to paint her as innocent you can bet your bottom dollar Norwegians will cling to it as if their lives depended on it. If it's some also-ran Joe Bloggs in a sport that Norway doesn't care about the outrage can be heard all over the country. See Erik Tysse.
Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
ToreBear said:Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
The top one seems more befitting a poet then a doctor.
The second one seems to make his argument clear.
No one should be treated by anything but proven methods. That's just too simplistic. Doctors often use unproven methods to treat their patients. It's a cost/benefit analysis for the health of well being of the patient.
If it's proven 10 years from now that the current methods used by the other countries is correct and has no ill effects, while not using that method causes long term suffering, he has actually caused more harm by not administering treatment.
In this case it is nebulized saltwater that is totally harmless. I have trouble seeing his arguments against treatment. His arguments seem based on flawed ethical reasoning.
Blaaswix said:ToreBear said:Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
The top one seems more befitting a poet then a doctor.
The second one seems to make his argument clear.
No one should be treated by anything but proven methods. That's just too simplistic. Doctors often use unproven methods to treat their patients. It's a cost/benefit analysis for the health of well being of the patient.
If it's proven 10 years from now that the current methods used by the other countries is correct and has no ill effects, while not using that method causes long term suffering, he has actually caused more harm by not administering treatment.
In this case it is nebulized saltwater that is totally harmless. I have trouble seeing his arguments against treatment. His arguments seem based on flawed ethical reasoning.
And the other stuff, the stuff that's not just saltwater? The correct medical advice is to stop doing XC, especially at low temperatures. It's not a human right to take part in elite XC.
ToreBear said:Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
The top one seems more befitting a poet then a doctor.
The second one seems to make his argument clear.
No one should be treated by anything but proven methods. That's just too simplistic. Doctors often use unproven methods to treat their patients. It's a cost/benefit analysis for the health of well being of the patient.
If it's proven 10 years from now that the current methods used by the other countries is correct and has no ill effects, while not using that method causes long term suffering, he has actually caused more harm by not administering treatment.
In this case it is nebulized saltwater that is totally harmless. I have trouble seeing his arguments against treatment. His arguments seem based on flawed ethical reasoning.
Discgear said:ToreBear said:Discgear said:The Swedish XC-team doctor Per Andersson today posted an open letter in Dagens Nyheter, "the Guardian" of Sweden. It's a well pronounced, personal and poetic tribute to sports and XC-skiing, but also filled with melancholic reflections.
http://www.dn.se/sport/oppet-brev-fran-skidlandslagets-lakare-medicinska-landvinningar-anvands-for-overgrepp-pa-idrottens-sjal/
The chief editor of sports in DN, Johan Esk replied:
http://www.dn.se/sport/johan-esk-en-lakares-ensamma-nodrop-om-det-sjuka-laget/
Highly recommended read. Maybe Per Andersson is a dying creature of an old and idealistic world. Anyhow, his views and humanistic approach is in stark contrast to the leadership of the Red Asthma Train.
The top one seems more befitting a poet then a doctor.
The second one seems to make his argument clear.
No one should be treated by anything but proven methods. That's just too simplistic. Doctors often use unproven methods to treat their patients. It's a cost/benefit analysis for the health of well being of the patient.
If it's proven 10 years from now that the current methods used by the other countries is correct and has no ill effects, while not using that method causes long term suffering, he has actually caused more harm by not administering treatment.
In this case it is nebulized saltwater that is totally harmless. I have trouble seeing his arguments against treatment. His arguments seem based on flawed ethical reasoning.
That was not a long shot that you wouldn't agree with any criticism, nore being able to see any problems whatsoever within Norwegian XC-skiing, despite two high-profile doping cases 2016.
However, FIS doping expert Rasmus Damsgaard, basically agrees with the Swedish team doctor and says: if you need a Nebulizer you should stay at home and not participate in races. Further on he says that you should have scientific evidence before you treat people.
http://www.vg.no/sport/langrenn/ski-vm-2017/fis-dopingekspert-trenger-du-aa-bruke-forstoever-boer-du-holde-deg-hjemme/a/23939180/?expId=df-86-d779144e&varId=df-86-d779144e
Just one warning for the fainthearted: In the article the newspaper claims it was more than three years since a well-known XC-skier was caught in doping. :surprised: Denial and arrogance seems indeed to be a widespread disease,
Discgear said:IOC is not going to appeal Johaug verdict.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/ioc-dropper-johaug-anke-1.13412614
Tomorrow we will know if FIS is going to appeal.
If not, than we have to wait for WADA and CAS.
Btw, just came home from 90 minutes aerobic training. Had planned to do 10K XC but it's way to cold outside. Inhaled two doses of Symbicourt before the workout. Didn't need the Bricanyl luckily. Can't believe that Bjørgen or Johnsrud Sundby are real asthmatics when I watch them blast the goal line seeminlgy unaffected after stunning performances. Johnsrud Sundby just 80% lung capacity, come on!
It's quite disturbing actually, all those ridiculous claims and doses, when you really suffer from allergic and exercise-induced asthma since childhood.
That was a welcome surprise. I think an independent verdict was inevitable after the strange handling in the first "trial", where the judge openly discussed how different suspensions would inflict her participation in the Olympics. Also, I think the situation might had looked differently, if Johaug had sued the team doctor. Not doing so is highly damaging for the official story.bambino said:Discgear said:IOC is not going to appeal Johaug verdict.
https://www.nrk.no/sport/ioc-dropper-johaug-anke-1.13412614
Tomorrow we will know if FIS is going to appeal.
If not, than we have to wait for WADA and CAS.
Btw, just came home from 90 minutes aerobic training. Had planned to do 10K XC but it's way to cold outside. Inhaled two doses of Symbicourt before the workout. Didn't need the Bricanyl luckily. Can't believe that Bjørgen or Johnsrud Sundby are real asthmatics when I watch them blast the goal line seeminlgy unaffected after stunning performances. Johnsrud Sundby just 80% lung capacity, come on!
It's quite disturbing actually, all those ridiculous claims and doses, when you really suffer from allergic and exercise-induced asthma since childhood.
The news are out, FIS will appeal to CAS in Johaug's case. The medical panel thinks 13 months is not enough for such doping violation.
I have to admit to be mighty surprised about the decision.
However, the FIS Doping Panel has found that the sanction imposed is on the low end of the
range of reasonable sanctions and fails to adequately reflect the fact that the athlete Therese
Johaug failed to read the doping warning label printed in red on the package despite the fact that the medication was unknown to her and was purchased in a foreign country.