Dr Ferrari -vs- Lemond

[Moose McKnuckles]

Given Ferrari's close relationship with LeMond, does it seem reasonable,

Why is that a given? I don't think Ferrari had any relationship with Lemond, much less a close one.

That story you linked is classic.

 

[CitizenErased]

So let's take that as you think both have equal credibility. .

Credibility, my friend, has nothing to do with this, so it seems.

Lemond quoted stories in his blog that as a matter of fact have been proven wrong in courts, fully documented and archived, so he's actually the one writing false stuff. And he cannot do that on a public source. End of story.
So much for his credibility, eh?

 

[MacRoadie]

Excellent. Read it then, if you want to waste your time and practice your italian.
All Ferrari is saying, and it's pretty clear to those with a brain, is that it's all fake stuff. So he's actually clearing Greg's name.

So, now... Lemond's fans... can you chill? NO? Being a bit biased, aren't we?

And it conveniently clears Ferrari as well, as it's "all fake stuff". So either everything is fake and Ferrari and Lemond are both innocent, or it's all true and they are both...

Ferrari isn't doing anything in an attempt to clear anyone but Ferrari. He's trying to coattail on Lemond if anything.

 

[nia O'Malley]

No smoke, no innuendo. Read my previous post and wake up.
Ferrari is not accusing Greg of doping. He's accusing his use of hearsay information.
Greg wants to use that? Fine, then we take as valid also what's written in the Dossier about Lemond.

Go and get yourselves a copy of the Dossier if you will. But no, you can't read italian, I suppose...

Hate to agree, but that's how I read it too

 

[CitizenErased]

And it conveniently clears Ferrari as well, as it's "all fake stuff". So either everything is fake and Ferrari and Lemond are both innocent, or it's all true and they are both...

Ferrari isn't doing anything in an attempt to clear anyone but Ferrari. He's trying to coattail on Lemond if anything.

Well, that my friend, is up to you.
Lemond can't write stuff that is proven to be false. End of story.

Go get the court papers and then shut up by reading them. If that doesn't help you, then ignorance may bliss you foverer.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

I guess anything goes to protect Armstrong. Next topic is Betsy used drugs?

Why would anybody believe Ferrari? The man is a lowlife doctor who fills his "patients" with harmful drugs they don't need.

 

[CitizenErased]

Why would anybody believe Ferrari? The man is a lowlife doctor who fills his "patients" with harmful drugs they don't need.

BEEP Wrong answer.

Go get the court papers of Ferrari's trial. Read them carefully, then you'll see what you wrote is not only false, but defamatory. Shall we call upon this Forum's administrator for violation of rules?

Don't believe Ferrari? Fine by me and everyone here I suppose... but you will believe what the judicial court ruled, no?

 

[MacRoadie]

Well, that my friend, is up to you.
Lemond can't write stuff that is proven to be false. End of story.

Go get the court papers and then shut up by reading them. If that doesn't help you, then ignorance may bliss you foverer.

Yeah, proven to be false = Testimony of Filippo Simeoni thrown out on appeal when it was contradicted by Ivan Gotti and Claudio Chiapucci: two loyal clients of Francesco Conconi and Luigi Checchini and the rest of the upright, forthright medical "professionals" at the Ferrara University.

Allegations from a guy who admitted to doping "proven to be false" by two other dopers loyal to the man on trial. Go figure...

 

[callac]

Go get the court papers of Ferrari's trial.

Any link to something like that?

 

[Colm.Murphy]

The subtext that is missing here is that Ferrari has directly entered the fray. And for what? An anecdotal story of a young bike racer who passed away.

The news should be that Ferrari chose to undertake a direct and open letter to "address" the Lemond claims that Ferrari and his methods are one of the greatest problems in cycling.

As for the banging on each party, who has credibility issues, who has what skeleton ion the closet, here is what i see as important.

1. Lemond is relentless in his agitation of these issues. The guy has several motivations and I think his love of cycling, infatuation with attacking Lance, and a possible boredom with the rest of his life, lead him to toss petrol on the fire.

2. Ferrari felt compelled to directly address the allegation by implying a sort of Lemond doping link. It is a hollow attempt to quell Lemond, which most know won't work.

Before this ends, there will be several casualties. Ferrari, as a direct actor in the Lance fraud, as doping advisor, will be roped in and ultimately held accountable for his medical malpractice. Lemond appears to be ready to escalate this and flog whatever anecdote, no matter how true or how much of a reach, to prove Lance is a fraud. What will be left of US cycling legacy when all of this is done may not amount to anything more than a charred framework of riders and teams.

If the truth is uncovered, and Lance must cede to his transgressions, I think it will have been worth it.

 

[B.Rasmussen]

BEEP Wrong answer.

Go get the court papers of Ferrari's trial. Read them carefully, then you'll see what you wrote is not only false, but defamatory. Shall we call upon this Forum's administrator for violation of rules?

Don't believe Ferrari? Fine by me and everyone here I suppose... but you will believe what the judicial court ruled, no?

Simeoni's word is good enough for me, thank you. Go get the admins for all I care, and by your answer I assume you are either Ferrari himself (in that case, go *beep* yourself) or a paid stooge.

 

[CitizenErased]

Yeah, proven to be false = Testimony of Filippo Simeoni thrown out on appeal when it was contradicted by Ivan Gotti and Claudio Chiapucci: two loyal clients of Francesco Conconi and Luigi Checchini and the rest of the upright, forthright medical "professionals" at the Ferrara University.

Allegations from a guy who admitted to doiping "proven to be false" by two other dopers loyal to the man on trial. Go figure...

Yes, you go figure.
Simeoni was not a pure witness, so his testimony was thrown out because he was not credible. No facts to support what he states... no facts, that's what comes out of the trial. Steatements of Simeoni which, by the way, he changed several instances through time. Why? Reduced doping sentence.

 

[MacRoadie]

Yes, you go figure.
Simeoni was not a pure witness, so his testimony was thrown out because he was not credible. No facts to support what he states... no facts, that's what comes out of the trial. Steatements of Simeoni which, by the way, he changed several instances through time. Why? Reduced doping sentence and not being investigated for stealing/reselling hospital drugs.

Yes, the testimony by Claudio "Yes I've been doping since 1993, oh wait, no I haven't" Chiapucci is much more compelling.

 

[CitizenErased]

Simeoni's word is good enough for me, thank you. Go get the admins for all I care, and by your answer I assume you are either Ferrari himself (in that case, go *beep* yourself) or a paid stooge.

What? The word of a guy who used to masturbate 5 times a day to get a testosterone boost? Puff...

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

If Simeoni lacked credibility, Lance's decision to chase him down gave him all the credibility he needed.

 

[CitizenErased]

Lemond appears to be ready to escalate this and flog whatever anecdote, no matter how true or how much of a reach, .

No matter how true? Are we trying to find the truth here, or just go on a witch hunt...??? Bigotry is its purest form, I see.

 

[MacRoadie]

What? The word of a guy who used to masturbate 5 times a day to get a testosterone boost? Puff...

Clearly the post of an individual intent solely on "trying to find the truth"

Frankly, you were better off with "I bet you guys can't read Italian".

 

[CitizenErased]

If Simeoni lacked credibility, Lance's decision to chase him down gave him all the credibility he needed.

HOW? I can't see how the context of a race can apply to that.
I'm not trying to justify Armstrong's actions, but if I was in a bike race and I don't like a guy and don't want him to win the race, I chase him down.
Seems pretty fair to me. And to logic as well.

Then you can see whatever fancy stuff you want into it...

 

[CitizenErased]

Clearly the post of an individual intent solely on "trying to find the truth"

Frankly, you were better off with "I bet you guys can't read Italian".

But my friend, the truth on the matter (Lemond's false statements) has already been established by court trial. And Lemond's statements are false, whether you like it or not, it's been proved.

Now, you wanna bring Simeoni in? Fine, I'll just state true facts documented in the trial to bring the truth to you.

 

[buckwheat]

HOW? I can't see how the context of a race can apply to that.
I'm not trying to justify Armstrong's actions, but if I was in a bike race and I don't like a guy and don't want him to win the race, I chase him down.
Seems pretty fair to me. And to logic as well.

Then you can see whatever fancy stuff you want into it...

What are you trying to do?

 

[saganftw]

i m looking forward to lemonds answer,he has to clarify some of his statements

 

[CitizenErased]

What are you trying to do?

Just presenting the facts. That Armstrong chasing down a rider, has nothing to do with credibility.
You'll surely agree with that... it would be a bit of a stretch, otherwise.

 

[buckwheat]

Ferrari doesn't appear to say much except that all of this is "he said, she said". The fact that it comes out on the heels of the Tour would suggest some incentive to self-promote his "programs". He doesn't address much fact or provide much. Maybe he really takes Lemond seriously as though his reputation could be further compromised.

What Ferrari is apparently not realizing, which the fanboys don't realize either btw, is the enough "he saids" will be sufficient to put one of his meal tickets in prison, so help us GOD!

 

[Race Radio]

Ferrari is comedy gold.

He appears to forget how the rapid spread of the cancer of his most famous client can be attributed to the aggressive steroid program Armstrong admitted that participated in.

Greg's strategy is working. The rats are clearly afraid.

 

[MacRoadie]

But my friend, the truth on the matter (Lemond's false statements) has already been established by court trial. And Lemond's statements are false, whether you like it or not, it's been proved.

Now, you wanna bring Simeoni in? Fine, I'll just state true facts documented in the trial to bring the truth to you.

So far, you haven't brought any "facts" into anything, just a lot of hot air, repeated assertions that Lemond has been "proven" wrong, and suggestions that others go read the court papers.

Since you've already read them (in their native Italian I'm sure), then feel free to cite the documents, or even include a quote or two. I mean, they're facts, right? How about a quick link to the dossier so folks can get up to speed quickly and move the dialog along in a more informed manner?

It shouldn't be a problem right? And since they are "facts" it should merely serve to provide a substantial support for your argument. You can't go wrong.