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DT240s and shimano 11 speed

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Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle

Bustedknuckle

Jul 23, 2009
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richwagmn said:
So getting this: http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dt-swiss-freehub-body-for-11-speed-shimano-compatibility.html

makes a DT240s compatible with Shimano 11 speed?

Does the wheel need to be redished?
Click to expand...

maybe..depends on how the wheel was built to start with. Unlike shimano, who moved the RH flange inboard, this makes the dimension a wee bit bigger than 130mm..135mm is right around the corner.

Same for Campag/Fulcrum and the FH bodies for those wheels that are now shimano 11s compatible.
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
maybe..depends on how the wheel was built to start with. Unlike shimano, who moved the RH flange inboard, this makes the dimension a wee bit bigger than 130mm..135mm is right around the corner.

Same for Campag/Fulcrum and the FH bodies for those wheels that are now shimano 11s compatible.
Click to expand...

Hell YES!!! Bring on 135, it's way overdue!
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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kuoirad said:
Disc brakes for all?
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No, we're talking about 135mm rears as it pertains to gear spacing and dish. Sitting at 11 speeds right now for the last few years with Campy, and the S brands just figured it out, the amount of dish that has to go into a rear wheel to work properly is pretty much maxed out, so 135 is going to have to happen because aspiration from the manufacturers to go 12, even 14s is great. Additionally it costs much less to go wider in the axle and fhub body than it does to completely redesign the chain, cluster, derailleurs, chainrings.

To answer your question though, personally I love mine, I won't be going back to rim brakes once I'm done with my 09 Scott addict. But I'm currently caught in this situation now where my new CX bike is 135 and d-brake, so it's impossible to swap wheels. I know many who are stuck in this same situation right now. All those bikes that have convertible features for switching from rim to d-brake, and 130 to 135 should give everyone a clear idea where we're headed.
 
Bustedknuckle

Bustedknuckle

Jul 23, 2009
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Giuseppe Magnetico said:
No, we're talking about 135mm rears as it pertains to gear spacing and dish. Sitting at 11 speeds right now for the last few years with Campy, and the S brands just figured it out, the amount of dish that has to go into a rear wheel to work properly is pretty much maxed out, so 135 is going to have to happen because aspiration from the manufacturers to go 12, even 14s is great. Additionally it costs much less to go wider in the axle and fhub body than it does to completely redesign the chain, cluster, derailleurs, chainrings.

To answer your question though, personally I love mine, I won't be going back to rim brakes once I'm done with my 09 Scott addict. But I'm currently caught in this situation now where my new CX bike is 135 and d-brake, so it's impossible to swap wheels. I know many who are stuck in this same situation right now. All those bikes that have convertible features for switching from rim to d-brake, and 130 to 135 should give everyone a clear idea where we're headed.
Click to expand...

Will you see disc on the road-yep, but like electronic, it won't be a groundswell, replacing calipers.

Even for 2013/14 euro cross, most pros will still opt for cantis unless their sponsor whines. Lighter, simplier, pads last longer in the sand soup very common in Europe. At the worlds in KY last year, I think that was a good indicator of discs and 'where we are headed'. Like tubeless on the road, it will happen, but will be small.

135 may be tough for some inna mold, plastic frame makers as well. It's just not that easy to splay the stays out and still have clearance for crank arms and chainrings, since all outboard bearing and internal BB crappola is so adverse to changing the width of the crank/chainring clearances.
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
Will you see disc on the road-yep, but like electronic, it won't be a groundswell, replacing calipers.
Click to expand...

What do you mean we will see them, they're here!!! I think the top tier bikes are all pretty much going the way of electric and hydro, if you can't at least acknowledge the obvious it just becomes a matter for yer bud, Ned Ludd. You go to Interbike, what are you seeing, people still braking with their feet? I don't know one person in the industry over 50 that is pro disk brake so you're not breaking any new ground here, but I still believe that this relatively old tech now infiltrating the road/cx range actually has the ability to get better, much, much better.

Even for 2013/14 euro cross, most pros will still opt for cantis unless their sponsor whines. Lighter, simplier, pads last longer in the sand soup very common in Europe. At the worlds in KY last year, I think that was a good indicator of discs and 'where we are headed'. Like tubeless on the road, it will happen, but will be small.
Click to expand...

Of course they won't, and the biggest reason for the Euros is weight, not performance. KY was one race and epic conditions, even the rim brakers had almost no brakes. Ask any of the American pros that were running disk for most if not all of last year, they all loved them. O' brother Busted, that tubeless analogy is so off! Ha-ha!! Every manufacturer of note has a drop bar bike with d-brakes, not even in the same ballpark.

135 may be tough for some inna mold, plastic frame makers as well. It's just not that easy to splay the stays out and still have clearance for crank arms and chainrings, since all outboard bearing and internal BB crappola is so adverse to changing the width of the crank/chainring clearances.
Click to expand...

You just described my Ibis Hakkalugi!!, and dozens of other bikes like this on the market. You know, I bought this thing because last year I saw one being built up at YOUR SHOP!!!!:D:D Although, now that I think about it, it was in Jim's stand. :cool:
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Master50 said:
Mountain bikes are at 142 now what is the extras 7 mm for?
Click to expand...

Much stronger, self centering, and rear wheel swapps are almost as easy as a front. For the last week I've been demo'ing a couple Santa Cruz bikes with the new rear, the Solo and the Bronson, both carbon. FANTASTIC!!! One of these is going to be my first mtb since '96. Leaning towards the Bronson.

Here's one from my best buddy Boeing, I'm sure he'll be stoked that I'm using a thread of his. http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=979721

Another one... http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/02/07/tech-speak-142x12-whats-the-big-idea/
 
Bustedknuckle

Bustedknuckle

Jul 23, 2009
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Giuseppe Magnetico said:
What do you mean we will see them, they're here!!! I think the top tier bikes are all pretty much going the way of electric and hydro, if you can't at least acknowledge the obvious it just becomes a matter for yer bud, Ned Ludd. You go to Interbike, what are you seeing, people still braking with their feet? I don't know one person in the industry over 50 that is pro disk brake so you're not breaking any new ground here, but I still believe that this relatively old tech now infiltrating the road/cx range actually has the ability to get better, much, much better.



Of course they won't, and the biggest reason for the Euros is weight, not performance. KY was one race and epic conditions, even the rim brakers had almost no brakes. Ask any of the American pros that were running disk for most if not all of last year, they all loved them. O' brother Busted, that tubeless analogy is so off! Ha-ha!! Every manufacturer of note has a drop bar bike with d-brakes, not even in the same ballpark.



You just described my Ibis Hakkalugi!!, and dozens of other bikes like this on the market. You know, I bought this thing because last year I saw one being built up at YOUR SHOP!!!!:D:D Although, now that I think about it, it was in Jim's stand. :cool:
Click to expand...

You didn't see a road bike with wet disc brakes..and what sram does, does not the market make. You 'may' see some wet disc road bikes at interbike, but unless and until the UCI says they can be in the pro peloton, they won't be everywhere. I can just imagine getting a neutral wheel in any Euro race with disc brakes...that will be like comedy central.

Every one of note? I didn't know you were so in love with trekspecializedgiantcannondale.

Dozens? You need to get out more.

Even IF you think it's the way to go, tubeless, wet brakes, electronic..is NOT the wave of the future in road bikes. Not even on cross bikes. 11s in cross, now that's a great idea..another step backward.
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
You didn't see a road bike with wet disc brakes..and what sram does, does not the market make. You 'may' see some wet disc road bikes at interbike, but unless and until the UCI says they can be in the pro peloton, they won't be everywhere. I can just imagine getting a neutral wheel in any Euro race with disc brakes...that will be like comedy central.

Every one of note? I didn't know you were so in love with trekspecializedgiantcannondale.

Dozens? You need to get out more.

Even IF you think it's the way to go, tubeless, wet brakes, electronic..is NOT the wave of the future in road bikes. Not even on cross bikes. 11s in cross, now that's a great idea..another step backward.
Click to expand...

I'm going to pass on continuing this debate with you, it's all too clear we don't see eye to eye on this, for years now, and it's the wrong thread anyway. I could go on and on about disk brakes and such, but we're so much better off when I'm sitting on a stool at the shop talking to you face to face. I feel sometimes that our back and forth on the forum might be misinterpreted as something else more sinister, which it isn't at all.
 
Bustedknuckle

Bustedknuckle

Jul 23, 2009
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Giuseppe Magnetico said:
I'm going to pass on continuing this debate with you, it's all too clear we don't see eye to eye on this, for years now, and it's the wrong thread anyway. I could go on and on about disk brakes and such, but we're so much better off when I'm sitting on a stool at the shop talking to you face to face. I feel sometimes that our back and forth on the forum might be misinterpreted as something else more sinister, which it isn't at all.
Click to expand...

Agree...discs and clinchers are for nancys..'click' shifting too...deliver me from the $24,000 plastic monstrosities of the bike world.
 
Bustedknuckle

Bustedknuckle

Jul 23, 2009
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42x16ss said:
Interesting convo - I don't want to stir the pot but Colnago jumped on to the road disc bandwagon pretty quick and Pinarello has released a hydraulic disc Dogma for 2014 too.
Click to expand...

The 'italian' frame companies have felt the pressure from trekspecializedgiantcannondale for a while now. They don't like it that most of the pro peloton is riding specialized these days. They want to be 'first in, best dressed', when it comes to road discs..even if it is a terrible idea.

Can't wait to watch wheel changes in the euro pro races when road discs are the 'fad'...gonna be comedy central.
 
kuoirad

kuoirad

Apr 18, 2009
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Giuseppe Magnetico said:
Bustedknuckle is the mutha*&%ing man, it's just a generational thing that makes a little friction. All in good fun. :)
Click to expand...

So next time I'm in Boulder I gotta get both of you together for beer and bull then... ;)
 
R

richwagmn

Jun 18, 2009
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Bustedknuckle said:
Agree...discs and clinchers are for nancys..'click' shifting too...deliver me from the $24,000 plastic monstrosities of the bike world.
Click to expand...

You forgot clipless pedals, lycra, helmets, plastic water bottles...
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
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Bustedknuckle said:
Agree...discs and clinchers are for nancys..'click' shifting too...deliver me from the $24,000 plastic monstrosities of the bike world.
Click to expand...

If you get some hippy in Boulder to sew up some custom made padded hair net helmets for the shop I would buy one for sure! Halloween is right around the corner!!!
 
42x16ss

42x16ss

May 23, 2009
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Very much so! I know where I stand on a few things here. I agree with BK's stance on clinchers while I don't really see the need for discs on the road unless you are doing crazy enduro stuff in the mountains (La Marmotte, 3 Peaks Challenge etc). I guess that's why they seem slow to sell?
 
Giuseppe Magnetico

Giuseppe Magnetico

Apr 8, 2012
840
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42x16ss said:
Very much so! I know where I stand on a few things here. I agree with BK's stance on clinchers while I don't really see the need for discs on the road unless you are doing crazy enduro stuff in the mountains (La Marmotte, 3 Peaks Challenge etc). I guess that's why they seem slow to sell?
Click to expand...

If they're so well suited for enduro racing as you say, a format where equipment is continually pushed to the absolute maximum, why wouldn't they be good in local road race or crit? If they are slow to sell, why is every manufacturer from A to Z introducing disk brakes to their cx and road bikes?

Keep in mind this thread has nothing to do with disk brakes, I would suggest you either create a new one to continue the conversation, or jump in on a existing one. You know 42x16ss we've beaten this subject to death over the years here on the forum and look at the market since then, "slow to sell"? C'mon dude, you wouldn't make a very good lawyer. Are we looking at the same industry?
 
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