Dumoulin.

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Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
"Jeff"":3244npu3][quote="red_flanders said:
I find it amazing that anyone could imagine that the difference in how riders look after races comes from better training. If there is such a difference that's it's visible, that riders are notably less drained, it is a massive difference.

What do people imagine riders were doing in the 80's? Drinking beer all night and eating pizzas all day, only getting up for races?

I tend to suspect people have no idea how hard riders used to train. Recency bias seems strong.
Hyperbole at its finest. Like there is no grey area between drinking beer & eating pizza's and today's training. I tend to suspect you dont understand the difference between hard training and hard training + science.

I find it amazing that this is even a discussion.
So just by saying the word- "science" you automatically proved that the techniques they have now are so much more advanced than 10 years ago?[/quote]
If the science we are talking about is pharmacology then hard to argue :)
 
Re: Re:

The Hitch said:
Fernandez said:
GraftPunk said:
I'm curious, as there are white knights jumping to Tom D's defense, but does anyone posting actually think he's clean? Now would be the time to show your *** for posterity.
I believe he is clean. In fact I believe all are clean meanwhile they arent caught in positive tests. I think its the way you should watch cycling. If you prefer to watch it thinking that all are cheating, then you have a problem.
Interesting choice of words "prefer"

You can "prefer" to believe whatever makes you sleep better at night. The world is great and peaceful and nothing bad ever happens.

The difference between you and those who believe cyclists dope is that we form opinions based on what is true, not what makes us feel better
LOL, where are your facts for saying that THE TRUTH is the cyclists dope?
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Fernandez said:
The Hitch said:
Fernandez said:
GraftPunk said:
I'm curious, as there are white knights jumping to Tom D's defense, but does anyone posting actually think he's clean? Now would be the time to show your *** for posterity.
I believe he is clean. In fact I believe all are clean meanwhile they arent caught in positive tests. I think its the way you should watch cycling. If you prefer to watch it thinking that all are cheating, then you have a problem.
Interesting choice of words "prefer"

You can "prefer" to believe whatever makes you sleep better at night. The world is great and peaceful and nothing bad ever happens.

The difference between you and those who believe cyclists dope is that we form opinions based on what is true, not what makes us feel better
LOL, where are your facts for saying that THE TRUTH is the cyclists dope?
www.dopeology.org

You are welcome. :D
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Fernandez said:
The Hitch said:
Fernandez said:
GraftPunk said:
I'm curious, as there are white knights jumping to Tom D's defense, but does anyone posting actually think he's clean? Now would be the time to show your *** for posterity.
I believe he is clean. In fact I believe all are clean meanwhile they arent caught in positive tests. I think its the way you should watch cycling. If you prefer to watch it thinking that all are cheating, then you have a problem.
Interesting choice of words "prefer"

You can "prefer" to believe whatever makes you sleep better at night. The world is great and peaceful and nothing bad ever happens.

The difference between you and those who believe cyclists dope is that we form opinions based on what is true, not what makes us feel better
LOL, where are your facts for saying that THE TRUTH is the cyclists dope?
http://www.dopeology.org

You are welcome. :D
Sorry, Im a bit lazy, you know, spaniards... Could you find me in that page a proof that, for example, Dumoulin is doping in the Giro? Or Quintana? But a true proof, not just suppositions.
 
May 26, 2010
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Re: Re:

Fernandez said:
Sorry, Im a bit lazy, you know, spaniards... Could you find me in that page a proof that, for example, Dumoulin is doping in the Giro? Or Quintana? But a true proof, not just suppositions.
Show me where the testing works, that the anti-doping agencies or UCI care about stopping doping. There's the truth.

Show where the culture to dope ended. There's the truth.

Show me where those in the sport who profited from cheating/doping have been cast out and ostracised. There's the truth.

We can go on......
 
Re: Re:

Benotti69 said:
Fernandez said:
Sorry, Im a bit lazy, you know, spaniards... Could you find me in that page a proof that, for example, Dumoulin is doping in the Giro? Or Quintana? But a true proof, not just suppositions.
Show me where the testing works, that the anti-doping agencies or UCI care about stopping doping. There's the truth.

Show where the culture to dope ended. There's the truth.

Show me where those in the sport who profited from cheating/doping have been cast out and ostracised. There's the truth.

We can go on......
LOL, LOL and LOL
All suppositions, never proofs. This is what this clinic forums are made of.
Where the testing works? Ask the 2 italians guys driven out of the race.
Where the culture to dope ended? I dont know, but the sport now is WAY cleaner than before.
Where those in the sport who profited from doping have been cast out? Ask Armstrong, Contador or Valverde, for example.
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re: Re:

Fernandez said:
Benotti69 said:
Fernandez said:
Sorry, Im a bit lazy, you know, spaniards... Could you find me in that page a proof that, for example, Dumoulin is doping in the Giro? Or Quintana? But a true proof, not just suppositions.
Show me where the testing works, that the anti-doping agencies or UCI care about stopping doping. There's the truth.

Show where the culture to dope ended. There's the truth.

Show me where those in the sport who profited from cheating/doping have been cast out and ostracised. There's the truth.

We can go on......
LOL, LOL and LOL
All suppositions, never proofs. This is what this clinic forums are made of.
Where the testing works? Ask the 2 italians guys driven out of the race.
Where the culture to dope ended? I dont know, but the sport now is WAY cleaner than before.
Where those in the sport who profited from doping have been cast out? Ask Armstrong, Contador or Valverde, for example.
Uhhh, neither Contador nor Valverde were cast out and ostracized. Their bans were temporary and they came back to multi million Euro contracts and have been earning the adoration, money and respect of fans since.
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Fernandez said:
Benotti69 said:
Fernandez said:
Sorry, Im a bit lazy, you know, spaniards... Could you find me in that page a proof that, for example, Dumoulin is doping in the Giro? Or Quintana? But a true proof, not just suppositions.
Show me where the testing works, that the anti-doping agencies or UCI care about stopping doping. There's the truth.

Show where the culture to dope ended. There's the truth.

Show me where those in the sport who profited from cheating/doping have been cast out and ostracised. There's the truth.

We can go on......
LOL, LOL and LOL
All suppositions, never proofs. This is what this clinic forums are made of.
Where the testing works? Ask the 2 italians guys driven out of the race.
Where the culture to dope ended? I dont know, but the sport now is WAY cleaner than before.
Where those in the sport who profited from doping have been cast out? Ask Armstrong, Contador or Valverde, for example.
Uhhh, neither Contador nor Valverde were cast out and ostracized. Their bans were temporary and they came back to multi million Euro contracts and have been earning the adoration, money and respect of fans since.
Do you want to kill them? They doped and they got a punishment. Thats the way the world works.
 
Re: Re:

Irondan said:
Fernandez said:
Do you want to kill them? They doped and they got a punishment. Thats the way the world works.
What???

You're the one that asked the question in the first place and then used two examples that were not at all relevant.

Are you trolling?
First names of proved dopers who came to my mind. Im not too keen on doping. Ricco? Ullrich?
 

Irondan

Administrator
Moderator
Re: Re:

Fernandez said:
Irondan said:
Fernandez said:
Do you want to kill them? They doped and they got a punishment. Thats the way the world works.
What???

You're the one that asked the question in the first place and then used two examples that were not at all relevant.

Are you trolling?
First names of proved dopers who came to my mind. Im not too keen on doping. Ricco? Ullrich?
Yes, Ricco and Ullrich have definitely been cast out and ostrisized..

Ullrich is having a hard time understanding why the German press is being so hard on him for being part of a small German race, poor thing... :rolleyes:

Ricco, is just... Ricco. :eek:

But none of this either proves of disproves that Dumoulin is doping, although the sniff test being as it is so effective suggests the latter.
 
Re:

Netserk said:
Do you think it is cleaner now than five years ago?
Probably the same. More than 10 years ago. And way more than 20 years ago. Im not saying the sport is clean at all, but its the same with all the sports. You just can trust in the doping tests. And enjoy the sport. Its not like they are <edited by mods>. Its sport, you know.
 
Re:

hrotha said:
If it's not a big deal anyway, why do you "refuse" to believe it's gotten dirtier, or "prefer" to believe they're clean unless they test positive?
I enjoy cycling as much as anyone. Its just that I dont have that mind to think they are doping without any proofs. All of you have are suppositions, never proofs, but still you fill pages everyday about how all are doping. Valverde, Dumoulin, Froome, etc. I dont get that mentality.
 
Re: Re:

Fernandez said:
hrotha said:
If it's not a big deal anyway, why do you "refuse" to believe it's gotten dirtier, or "prefer" to believe they're clean unless they test positive?
I enjoy cycling as much as anyone. Its just that I dont have that mind to think they are doping without any proofs. All of you have are suppositions, never proofs, but still you fill pages everyday about how all are doping. Valverde, Dumoulin, Froome, etc. I dont get that mentality.
While you are free to do that, surely you can see how that does *not* mean that you have to believe that they are clean? Can't you just be blissfully undecided?
 
Re: Re:

Netserk said:
Fernandez said:
hrotha said:
If it's not a big deal anyway, why do you "refuse" to believe it's gotten dirtier, or "prefer" to believe they're clean unless they test positive?
I enjoy cycling as much as anyone. Its just that I dont have that mind to think they are doping without any proofs. All of you have are suppositions, never proofs, but still you fill pages everyday about how all are doping. Valverde, Dumoulin, Froome, etc. I dont get that mentality.
While you are free to do that, surely you can see how that does *not* mean that you have to believe that they are clean? Can't you just be blissfully undecided?
How do you make so complex a simple thing? Its as easy as meanwhile they dont fail a test or the performance become too much incredible (I have my doubts sometimes, of course), I watch and enjoy the sport.
And theres no evidence, neither doping proofs, by my point of view that Dumoulins performances are out of this world.
 

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