Dumoulin.

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May 26, 2010
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red_flanders said:
Which thread? I've been in discussions around this for years. Never seen anything convincing at all.
I guess this one...

In Blood Stepped: The History Of Blood Doping In Sport

pmcg76 said:
fmk_RoI said:
pmcg76 said:
Interesting piece. I am guessing the Mario was Mario Beccia who was one of the better Italian riders in the 80s, winner of Fleche Wallone and regular Giro Top 10 finisher. I think there is little doubt there was experimentation with blood doping in Italian cycling, but it didn't seem very effective as Italian cycling was relatively weak on the international stage apart from maybe Moser/Saronni.

I have an interesting quote from Roberto Visentini on blood doping if I can dig it up.
Beccia, yes. The date is what is of interest to me. (Maybe also the involvement of the Blessèd Aldo.) The Italians at this stage were past experimentation - this is after Donati first crossed paths with Conconi, don't forget - and the evidence, slight as it still is, increasingly suggests blood doping among road cyclists at this time was much more common than accepted wisdom allows. It not being effective for the Italians: could it be that others were as advanced?

The Visentini quote would be interesting to see: does it suggest the use of transfusions Inoxpran/Carrera?
Ok, dug it up with another interesting anecodte, the first is from a book that was published annually in the UK about the Giro and Tour, it was simply titled Tour 86 published by Kennedy Bros. This refers to the success of Guido Bontempi winning 5 stages at the Giro in 86.This was to be Bontempi's best season winning Ghent-Wevelgem and 3 stages at the Tour. Bontempi did test positive at the Tour in 87.

".....but it was again Bontempi who surged over the line for his third victory of the race, paying tribute afterward to the team doctor, transferred from Mosers entourage and the same doctor who advised Moser on the preparation for his hour record preparation"

The Visentini bit is from Winning magazine review of the 86 Giro.
i][/i]

Visentini rebuffed the cynics who said he owed his Giro victory to the training regime imposed on his squad by a doctor from the team formed by Professor Conconi to help Moser break the World Hour record in 1984.Visentini said at a press conference after receiving his final pink jersey, "I am one of the few riders who doesnt follow all this advice. For one thing, I would never volunteer to undergo a blood transfusion"
.


Carrera did have a fantastic season in 86, Bontempi, Visentini and Urs Zimmermann all had super years in 86. In neither example does it mention who the doctor was, clearly not Conconi himself, was it Ferrari?? I know Ferrari worked with Mosers team in 87 so did he possibly jumps ship for a season or was it someone else? Roche did have his super season in 87, but then Zimmerman was rubbish that same season whilst Bontempi was nowhere near as good.

[
 
Hmmm. So "slight evidence" per the poster, and a rider who says he "doesn't follow all this advice...I would never undergo a blood transfusion" is evidence that people were using it GT's? I'm not saying it's impossible or never happened, I just have yet to see anything convincing. I understand people were doing things for the Olympics and hour records. To the point of my comment in the thread, it's hardly how I would characterize racing in the 1980s, particularly when talking about training.

I haven't read the thread you referenced, I will have a look when I get a chance.
 
The guys moaning about the negativity here about riders doping need to have a word to all the cheats who have brought cycling into disrepute including Lance. Don't blame the posters here. Blame all the cheats who have given cycling the worst reputation in world sport.
 
reputation is no worse than athletics...........it's sport competitors do what they can to win

dumoulin maximises his chances...........how much? we really don't know

there are those that think they know but we just have an idea

...........waters are muddied by a lack of clear info on even some basic info suc as riders weights

Mark L
 
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red_flanders said:
Hmmm. So "slight evidence" per the poster, and a rider who says he "doesn't follow all this advice...I would never undergo a blood transfusion" is evidence that people were using it GT's? I'm not saying it's impossible or never happened, I just have yet to see anything convincing. I understand people were doing things for the Olympics and hour records. To the point of my comment in the thread, it's hardly how I would characterize racing in the 1980s, particularly when talking about training.

I haven't read the thread you referenced, I will have a look when I get a chance.
I highly doubt that Visentini would make a remark like

"I am one of the few riders who doesn't follow all this advice. For one thing, I would never volunteer to undergo a blood transfusion".

if he didn't know of riders who were following advice to use blood transfusions. An interviewer wouldn't be specifically introducing the topic of transfusions back in 1986. 1996, maybe, 2006 certainly, but not in 1986.
 
Re: Re:

red_flanders said:
fmk_RoI said:
red_flanders said:
Don't buy the blood bags notion at all. Never seen anything that would indicate this was a practice in GTs during that era.
See the thread. There's more evidence than you realise...
Which thread? I've been in discussions around this for years. Never seen anything convincing at all.
It's 14 pages with a lot of shouting at people who just like to play join the dots, but I've tried to summarise it here for you.
 
Sep 30, 2009
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From the ticker:
Dumoulin is really struggling now as he fights the gradient. Up the road Nibali is showing no signs of slowing as he takes Quintana with him. The defending champion hasn't shown this form all race.

Imagine that...after a rest day!
 
Apr 10, 2011
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He was hardly great, natural progression if you want to peak in 3rd week. He hasn't show any ridicolousness yet
 
When the dust settles on today's incident, this will be considered a remarkable performance by Dumoulin considering he rode the last 30km alone. I thought at one point that he was in danger of losing the Giro but he is still in the driving seat with what is effectively a buffer of 2 minutes if you include the likely minimum gain from the last TT.
 
May 26, 2010
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ontheroad said:
When the dust settles on today's incident, this will be considered a remarkable performance by Dumoulin considering he rode the last 30km alone. I thought at one point that he was in danger of losing the Giro but he is still in the driving seat with what is effectively a buffer of 2 minutes if you include the likely minimum gain from the last TT.
he lost a lot of weight just before the last 30km :D
 
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Benotti69 said:
ontheroad said:
When the dust settles on today's incident, this will be considered a remarkable performance by Dumoulin considering he rode the last 30km alone. I thought at one point that he was in danger of losing the Giro but he is still in the driving seat with what is effectively a buffer of 2 minutes if you include the likely minimum gain from the last TT.
he lost a lot of weight just before the last 30km :D
Marginal stains...
 
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Zinoviev Letter said:
Random Direction said:
Could the dump be a side effect of a testosterone suppository, blood bag, or some other rest day recovery medicine?
Sure. It could also be a side effect of a sandwich. Or of a team helper not washing his hands while packing the lunches. Or of repeated and drastic shifts in altitude. Or of...
too many gummy bears consumed as masking agents? :rolleyes:
 
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carton said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Random Direction said:
Could the dump be a side effect of a testosterone suppository, blood bag, or some other rest day recovery medicine?
Sure. It could also be a side effect of a sandwich. Or of a team helper not washing his hands while packing the lunches. Or of repeated and drastic shifts in altitude. Or of...
too many gummy bears consumed as masking agents? :rolleyes:
Yes, of course. As we all know, nobody has ever got a random emergency urge to dump for any reason other than those stemming from PED use. It's a dead give away, just like going bald.
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
carton said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Random Direction said:
Could the dump be a side effect of a testosterone suppository, blood bag, or some other rest day recovery medicine?
Sure. It could also be a side effect of a sandwich. Or of a team helper not washing his hands while packing the lunches. Or of repeated and drastic shifts in altitude. Or of...
too many gummy bears consumed as masking agents? :rolleyes:
Yes, of course. As we all know, nobody has ever got a random emergency urge to dump for any reason other than those stemming from PED use. It's a dead give away, just like going bald.
and improvements in form, deterioration in form and maintaining the same form.
 
Re: Re:

Zinoviev Letter said:
carton said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Random Direction said:
Could the dump be a side effect of a testosterone suppository, blood bag, or some other rest day recovery medicine?
Sure. It could also be a side effect of a sandwich. Or of a team helper not washing his hands while packing the lunches. Or of repeated and drastic shifts in altitude. Or of...
too many gummy bears consumed as masking agents? :rolleyes:
Yes, of course. As we all know, nobody has ever got a random emergency urge to dump for any reason other than those stemming from PED use. It's a dead give away, just like going bald.
It happens to me sometimes when I haven't slept enough, meaning when I wake up during the wrong phase of sleep.
 
Re: Re:

carton said:
Zinoviev Letter said:
Random Direction said:
Could the dump be a side effect of a testosterone suppository, blood bag, or some other rest day recovery medicine?
Sure. It could also be a side effect of a sandwich. Or of a team helper not washing his hands while packing the lunches. Or of repeated and drastic shifts in altitude. Or of...
too many gummy bears consumed as masking agents? :rolleyes:
 

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