Dumoulin.

[42x16ss]

Re:

We will know about Dumoulin tomorrow. If he defies physics. And can climb with the big guns. Then we can debate it. I have a feeling he will be dropped like a stone.

I hope that he's gone too deep trying to gain and then defend red, and that we aren't looking at another Froome/Armstrong/Riis/Chiapucci level transformation.

We'll see shortly I guess.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

Dumoulin was about as good as Froome was at climbing before his break through

Hideously unfair comparison. Froome was born in a country with mountains. Poor Dumoulin grew up in a climbing backwater. No matter how many times he trained up Robert Gesinkbult, he could never really develop as a climber until he went to countries like Switzerland, Spain, etc, where he could finally get acquainted with true mountains. His recent climbing transformation is therefore perfectly understandable.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Dumoulin has a big engine. Big heart too I heard here in Holland.

 

[WillemS]

Well, but there actually is definite proof that Dutch do have a totally different mentality than everyone else.

Just look at Astana, as even in team where everyone's dirty, "Dutchies" Westra en Boom are able to stay clean!

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

Dumoulin was about as good as Froome was at climbing before his break through

Hideously unfair comparison. Froome was born in a country with mountains. Poor Dumoulin grew up in a climbing backwater. No matter how many times he trained up Robert Gesinkbult, he could never really develop as a climber until he went to countries like Switzerland, Spain, etc, where he could finally get acquainted with true mountains. His recent climbing transformation is therefore perfectly understandable.

I can't tell who's being serious anymore, but Dumoulin was riding abroad for his whole u23 career.

 

[classicomano]

His trainer talks about our future multiple GT winner. Deal with it Clinic 12.

Can Dumoulin win a Grand Tour in 5 years?

A future GC rider, thats what Adriaan Helmantel, his current trainer at Giant-Alpecin, sees in Dumoulin. "I think Tom is an even bigger talent than he has shown so far. Last year we asked ourselves the question: can Tom win a Grand Tou in 5 years? Thats opportunistic, but it is intereseting. I dont know if he can actually win one, because that depends on alot of things. But he can come very far. Especially with a course that suits him.

Weakness

But going from time trialist to gc rider, doesnt go in a day. You need a plan for that. Helmantel: "Tom's stength is that he has a huge power output over 3-20 minute efforts. But his weakness is that he doesnt reach those outputs alot of times in long stages, en especially if those stages include multiple climbs. Looking at the classics and stage races we worked hard on expanding his base: he needs to be able to endure more than just a time trial. And that worked. In the Tour de Suisse he already started climbing well, also in longer stages with some more climbing."

But Dumoulin is not there yet. If he really wants to do a good GC in a grand tour, he also needs to withstand the big mountain stages. And he hasnt really shown that hes capabale of that yet.

Helmantal: "One of that last steps would be to lose 1 or 2 more kilo's. He weighs about 70 kilos now; hes well toned but not super skinny. En with more racing kilometers and more experience he will grow even further. Right now hes ahead of schedule. But in this Vuelta so far he excelled in stages that suit him, with a flat run in and a relativly short climb. The stages that lie ahead are a different matter.

Queen stage

To begin with today: the queen stage of the Vuelta. with the finish in Andorra. Dumoulin has to survive six cols. For him its the tipping point of the Vuelta. If he succeeds in this stage, than we can think of a good GC. If he cracks: well too bad. Better luck next year. And if not next year, than the next, or the one after that.

Because something Dumoulin has, besides talent and confidence, is alot of time.

 

[SeriousSam]

70 kg? All he needs is to get down to 67.5 with the loss being only body fat and upper body muscle and perhaps a higher cadence. There is precedent that this combination of weight and power can produce the best climbing in cycling.

If he can consistently tuck his elbows in, he might be even quicker.

 

[Tonton]

Re:

70 kg? All he needs is to get down to 67.5 with the loss being only body fat and upper body muscle and perhaps a higher cadence. There is precedent that this combination of weight and power can produce the best climbing in cycling.

If he can consistently tuck his elbows in, he might be even quicker.

Nice .

In all seriousness, TD showed he could climb at a very high level during the TdS stage that Pinot won. As stated in previous posts, once the attacks start flying, he'll get dropped. IMO he's something like Sean Kelly good in the climbs. That's pretty good, not good enough though.

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

His trainer talks about our future multiple GT winner. Deal with it Clinic 12.

Can Dumoulin win a Grand Tour in 5 years?

A future GC rider, thats what Adriaan Helmantel, his current trainer at Giant-Alpecin, sees in Dumoulin. "I think Tom is an even bigger talent than he has shown so far. Last year we asked ourselves the question: can Tom win a Grand Tou in 5 years? Thats opportunistic, but it is intereseting. I dont know if he can actually win one, because that depends on alot of things. But he can come very far. Especially with a course that suits him.

Weakness

But going from time trialist to gc rider, doesnt go in a day. You need a plan for that. Helmantel: "Tom's stength is that he has a huge power output over 3-20 minute efforts. But his weakness is that he doesnt reach those outputs alot of times in long stages, en especially if those stages include multiple climbs. Looking at the classics and stage races we worked hard on expanding his base: he needs to be able to endure more than just a time trial. And that worked. In the Tour de Suisse he already started climbing well, also in longer stages with some more climbing."

But Dumoulin is not there yet. If he really wants to do a good GC in a grand tour, he also needs to withstand the big mountain stages. And he hasnt really shown that hes capabale of that yet.

Helmantal: "One of that last steps would be to lose 1 or 2 more kilo's. He weighs about 70 kilos now; hes well toned but not super skinny. En with more racing kilometers and more experience he will grow even further. Right now hes ahead of schedule. But in this Vuelta so far he excelled in stages that suit him, with a flat run in and a relativly short climb. The stages that lie ahead are a different matter.

Queen stage

To begin with today: the queen stage of the Vuelta. with the finish in Andorra. Dumoulin has to survive six cols. For him its the tipping point of the Vuelta. If he succeeds in this stage, than we can think of a good GC. If he cracks: well too bad. Better luck next year. And if not next year, than the next, or the one after that.

Because something Dumoulin has, besides talent and confidence, is alot of time.

I read it as his trainer was not sure that he could win even one.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

GT winner in 5 years eh? Sounds strangely familiar. Is 5 some magic number in pro cycling I was not aware of?

If past uses of the number are anything to go by, he should be winning a GT in 3 years' time.

 

[gmedina]

wow...Dumolin still there....climbing with the mountain goats.

 

[classicomano]

Re:

wow...Dumolin still there....climbing with the mountain goats.

Yeah like 40 riders in that group. I cant believe Dumoulin is there too, wow.

 

[gmedina]

Re: Re:

wow...Dumolin still there....climbing with the mountain goats.

Yeah like 40 riders in that group. I cant believe Dumoulin is there too, wow.

more like 20 riders...all of them climbers :/ ... so as the commentators just said "it boggles my mind"

 

[wendybnt]

Ah...but he's not aspiring to be clean winner in 5 years. For that he's need an injection of marginal gains

 

[LaFlorecita]

What is going on here

 

[Miburo]

So what about now?

 

[Der Effe]

Dumoulin, in top shape from January until October

 

[LaFlorecita]

Dumoulin, in top shape from January until October

Don't really care about his form peak, but what the hell is happening here super hard mountain stage and he is only losing 1 minute to the best climbers so far

 

[gmedina]

this is almost as good as watching geraint thomas during the TdF....riders transforming into climbers over night...

 

[classicomano]

Tom Dumoulin will be the first clean GT winner since Greg Lemond. This was a glorious day.

 

[lllludo]

So now isn't that amazing or what ??
You can listen again to cyclingnews podcast. Nobody expected that.
Tom Dumoulin 9th of the queen stage ! Losing only 1'35" to Aru and 1' to Purito in full attack mode. Surviving where Froome, Quintana, Roche, Valverde, Pozzo more or less cracked !
Not bad for a guy who's specialized in one-shot efforts ranging from 5 to 20 minutes according to his coach. Now waiting for the watts calculation.
Will he equal Peter Velits and preserve a podium spot ? Can he win it all ? Sky is the limit.

 

[Kernel]

Being a Dutchman, those are nice days to watch cycling. However today's ride and the one from saturday, leave me with a lot of doubts aswell. If something is to good to be true, well..... u get the point

 

[Aapjes]

Re:

Not bad for a guy who used to be specialized in one-shot efforts ranging from 5 to 20 minutes according to his coach.

Fixed

 

[Benotti69]

Any minute now Marcel kittel's twitter feed will explode about the outrageous performance of Tom Dumoulin...........

 

[Dekker_Tifosi]

If Dumoulin is suspect then what is Astana. Another after rest day flyby shooting from Aru and Landa