Dumoulin.

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

This were also the only 2 times he really tried

Giant would be very unhappy to know that he didn't really try when he led the Criterium International.

 

[Escarabajo]

I am trying hard with Dumoulin here. We know he is gifted athlete with very good TT ability. But dropping all mountain goats at their game, even if keeping a steady pace like a TT, is still suspicious.

I'll wait until Wednesday. If I see similar then I'll release the dogs.

PD.: BTW I said the same thing about Horner and looked what happened.

 

[malakassis]

Re:

No, if he finishes top-10 in Andorra it will be suspect. Seriously, what is his best stage finish in a high mountain stage that would only make a win suspect?

this might be still in a normal range being the first high mountain stage. against a tour-fatigued field. but lets wait and let time/physics do their job. he will be happy to be top 10 in madrid.
ppl should not overreact - this climb today was on the edge between punsher/climber.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

This were also the only 2 times he really tried

And despite finishing with Tony Martin in Saas-Fee he probably did the 4th fastest ascent that day. Plus, it's cherry picking to say he finished with Tony Martin, he finished in a group of climbers.

No, I picked the a rider from that group who finished same time despite doing the most work. And the climbers he finished with? Pardilla, Dombrowski, Formolo etc. Hardly Valverde and Quintana.

 

[rekhyt]

It's laughable to compare him to Indurain etc. He's always shown decent performances uphill, gradually improved over the last few years. Some itt act like he's come out of nowhere.
Still suspicious to outperform this field, though most here are greatly exaggerating.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

Yes, on one he managed to crack the top-10 against what D_T would normally call a weak field and on the other he finished same time as Tony Martin.

And this were his 2 best placements on high mountain stages.

This were also the only 2 times he really tried

And despite finishing with Tony Martin in Saas-Fee he probably did the 4th fastest ascent that day. Plus, it's cherry picking to say he finished with Tony Martin, he finished in a group of climbers.

No, I picked the a rider from that group who finished same time despite doing the most work. And the climbers he finished with? Pardilla, Dombrowski, Formolo etc. Hardly Valverde and Quintana.

You have point, but I'm not comparing fields either. Hence the remak about times, one thing will be if he finishes 10th seconds from the winner, other if he loses minutes.

 

[doperhopper]

Let's hope this was just one day heroic effort and he'll drop dead next days, like e.g. Voeckler after his heroic Galibier ride. Because, you know, only marginal Skyborgs are allowed to do magic transformations in the New Clean Era.

 

[jmdirt]

I truly hope that it was just the best climbing performance of his life, but I must admit that I was doing this:

As far as defending your countryman, I'm just glad that I'm in the USA because we've never had a doper.

 

[coinneach]

For me, it's his build that amazes me, he has these huge shoulders.
Ok, he's young and developing, and not sure where his real talent lies.....
But how can he just loose weight without power?
Did Cancelarra just never try that because he thought it was all about the drugs???

 

[Guybrush]

hey! after all, it's odd winner vuelta year

 

[Billie]

Re:

But how can he just loose weight without power?
Did Cancelarra just never try that because he thought it was all about the drugs???

2008.

Tourmalet and Croix de Fer he was lucky he didn't drop his own teammates

 

[hrotha]

Personally, I don't find the "first week!" protestations all that convincing. It's not like he's done this before in the many first weeks of all the stage races he's done in his career.

If he fades in a few days, that won't delete what's already happened. Not that I'm convinced he'll fade, though.

 

[roundabout]

Re: Re:

But how can he just loose weight without power?
Did Cancelarra just never try that because he thought it was all about the drugs???

2008.

Tourmalet and Croix de Fer he was lucky he didn't drop his own teammates

Tourmalet was Voigt being ridiculous. Cancellara was dropped from the break that day.

Croix de Fer was too good, but there was still a big group left when he pulled over.

 

[bigcog]

Re:

Personally, I don't find the "first week!" protestations all that convincing. It's not like he's done this before in the many first weeks of all the stage races he's done in his career.

If he fades in a few days, that won't delete what's already happened. Not that I'm convinced he'll fade, though.

I don't think he will fade, he will probably win it he looks that strong.

 

[jmdirt]

Re:

For me, it's his build that amazes me, he has these huge shoulders.
Ok, he's young and developing, and not sure where his real talent lies.....
But how can he just loose weight without power?
Did Cancelarra just never try that because he thought it was all about the drugs???

Wait, you think that Fab rode clean?!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

For me, it's his build that amazes me, he has these huge shoulders.
Ok, he's young and developing, and not sure where his real talent lies.....
But how can he just loose weight without power?
Did Cancelarra just never try that because he thought it was all about the drugs???

Wait, you think that Fab rode clean?!

That's decidedly not what coinneach is saying.

Fab was undeniably one of the best TT riders around. And definitely not 80+ kg as suggested previously a few posts upthread.

So why didn't he just lose a few kgs and win a few GTs? Seems anyone can do it these days?

 

[SeriousSam]

Not everyone. The ability to do so seems to correlate with having one of those cherished track backgrounds. Has Tom graced a velodrome before?

 

[KyoGrey]

Re:

It's laughable to compare him to Indurain etc. He's always shown decent performances uphill, gradually improved over the last few years. Some itt act like he's come out of nowhere.
Still suspicious to outperform this field, though most here are greatly exaggerating.

Like Indurain.

Seriously, reading some comments it seems like Indurain came out of nowhere in 1991, when he had already won numerous stage races at Domoulin's age. Volta a Catalunya and Paris-Niza amongst others...

 

[Kwibus]

lol.

I was wondering if he got this thread here and ofcourse he did

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Personally, I don't find the "first week!" protestations all that convincing. It's not like he's done this before in the many first weeks of all the stage races he's done in his career.

If he fades in a few days, that won't delete what's already happened. Not that I'm convinced he'll fade, though.

Exactly 4 years ago (to the day I think maybe even) in this very subforum, I heard this exact same - first week protestation.

Oh come on, its just the first week. He's having a good day. He's doing well because its really hot and he's used to that because he's from Kenya. Nothing to see here, he will no doubt fade soon.

They quickly changed their arguments over the coming weeks of course.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":1g6ygqqt]Some of you are a caricature of themselves.

After every good performance, a new topic is started or bumped.

Laughable.[/quote]
lol.

If no one starts a thread its - "you guys are so biased and obsessed with one team. Where is the thread about Dumoulin? there is none because you aren't anti doping just anti my team".

If someone does start a thread its " omg you guys are pathetic, accuse everyone of doping".

Can't win can you. Sort of like a clean rider in this Vuelta.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2mrpxh1f]Some of you are a caricature of themselves.

After every good performance, a new topic is started or bumped.

Laughable.

You know what else is laughable? A heavy TT specialist dropping Purito and a doped alien on double figure gradients

Nevermind him, he's Dutch.[/quote]
This is the nonsense I really start to dislike. That's probably the 3rd time the last 3 weeks. If I would not list that I am from Holland, I wouldnt hear this. Its lame and weak.

Who knows Dumoulin is on the juice. That's not exactly my problem. The problem I have is what I already said.

Some of you remind me of Statler and Waldorf from the Muppet Show. Cant enjoy a good performance. Everybody sucks and is doped.[/quote]

For the record I don't believe for a second that you are actually Dutch btw.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

[quote=""Jeff"":2t2isykj]Some of you are a caricature of themselves.

After every good performance, a new topic is started or bumped.

Laughable.

You know what else is laughable? A heavy TT specialist dropping Purito and a doped alien on double figure gradients

Nevermind him, he's Dutch.

This is the nonsens I really dislike. That's probably the 3rd time the last 3 weeks, I hear this, If I would not have told anyone of you, I am from Holand, I wouldnt hear this stuff.

Its lame and weak.[/quote]

You should try being a Brit. [/quote]

?

About half if not more of the most hardcore clinic cynics are British.

 

[Red Rick]

So are the Dutch on the dope now that Schippers wins worlds gold and Dumoulin bosses the steep short climbs.

Doubt he's clean, but I sure as hell don't think he wins by out-doping his opponents.

May be a level playing field here

 

[The Hitch]

Let's hope this was just one day heroic effort and he'll drop dead next days, like e.g. Voeckler after his heroic Galibier ride. Because, you know, only marginal Skyborgs are allowed to do magic transformations in the New Clean Era.

Don't think Voeckler is a good example. He finished only a few seconds back on Luz Ardiden, lost basically no time on PDB, and did better than expected on Manse and Pinerolo before Galibier. That was a whole week of heroism. At the same time that Rolland discovered gc level climbing too.