Electronic shifting v Mechanical?

[DirtyDennis]

No, I don't buy specialist tools for my car servicing because I don't do car servicing. I pay low qualified goons to do it for me because I'm not going to pay thousands of pounds for tooling I'm going to use once every 18 months.

I don't want to pay goons to do my bike servicing because cycle maintenance is about as complicated as making a cup of coffee, and funnily enough quite a few of them have made so many **** ups when I have used them that I end up having to check over all their work anyway. That's the trouble with low skilled goons.

What I will complain about is a company producing components that require expensive tools whereas their competitors produce components that function just as well but only need an allen key and a £12 wrench an about 5 minutes work to change a set of bearings.

Besides which, you are totally missing the point.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Classy! Maybe you should have researched what tools you would need before fully committing to thousands of dollars worth of components.

 

[DirtyDennis]

That's too funny!

Campagnolo didn't even produce or spec the tools for PT when they started selling the crank sets.

P.s there isn't a PT crank set that costs 'thousands of dollars'

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Your problem is having to buy specialty tools. BFD, when you're done with them sell them. There are generations of Campy out there to support that. Who cares?

 

[DirtyDennis]

Your problem is having to buy specialty tools. BFD, when you're done with them sell them. There are generations of Campy out there to support that. Who cares?

Tools needed to change Campagnolo Power Torque bearings:

+

Tools needed to change Shimano HT2 bearings:

+

Hmmm.... bear in in mind that the PT has no performance benefit, which one of those systems looks like a total dogs a$$ of a design?


P.s. forgot to include PT needing massive allen key normally only used for car oil sump plug

P.p.s. Anybody know if those sh1tty bits of cardboard hold their resale value?

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Hmmm, this looks familiar. I'm running an Athena group on my road bike and a Ultegra group on my CX bike. Have most of the same tools to service, though my HT2 is BB86 so more tools required, but the question remains, so what? Campy requires more bits to service, oh well. C'est la vie.

 

[DirtyDennis]

More tools= more money needed upfront for one specific job, and tools which ave no other use

More tools= more complicated process, far more time consuming and more potential for things to go wrong.

So what?

You take your pick and I'll take mine.

But again, you are missing the point. You are needing all those expensive proprietary tools not for any performance benefit but as a result of Campags marketing policy

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Why don't you stop using Campy then if you don't agree with how they operate?

 

[DirtyDennis]

Because that would be throwing the toys out with the pram. I've got loads of Campag kit, including some stuff from the 80's that is as finely machined as a Leica camera.

...and that's the point really. Campagnolo is not what it was. I'm not blaming them for that, they are having to go down the mass market route to try and survive, but the name 'Campagnolo' is no longer a guarantee of the best, and this little debate we are having is because of a particular route they are taking to try and get into the OEM market. They want their kit to be bought by mass market brands and fitted to mass market bikes.

Think about it.... how many of the people who go and buy a $1000 bike are likely to ride it in all conditions and do the sort of mileage that will wear out BB bearings?

I don't think many will, which is why In the design process maintenance has clearly been an after-thought.

In the design process of PT, the main priority is avoiding patent infringement with a system that basically wants to be Hollow tech 2.

 

[DirtyWorks]

but the name 'Campagnolo' is no longer a guarantee of the best,

When was it a guarantee? Their equipment has been eventually good, but that's about average.

Go back before index shifting and their stuff was just okay. I recall a time you could get extraordinary small parts from them. That was rare and better than the rest. It's been so long I have no idea if they still do that.

and this little debate we are having is because of a particular route they are taking to try and get into the OEM market. They want their kit to be bought by mass market brands and fitted to mass market bikes.

It's not OEM at down-market prices. They are responding to the changes in bike shop business model. The big shops have mostly gone vertical. So Campag needs to do a deal with Giant and Merida and then probably Trek to pick up most of the very high retail price category where their product fits.

In the design process maintenance has clearly been an after-thought.

Right. Exactly.

FWIW, most people buy the whole bike at the lowest possible price. They don't think "Hmmm I'll spend a bit more now so I'll save some money later." That's not changing anytime soon.

 

[Oldman]

Tools needed to change Campagnolo Power Torque bearings:

+

Tools needed to change Shimano HT2 bearings:

+

Hmmm.... bear in in mind that the PT has no performance benefit, which one of those systems looks like a total dogs a$$ of a design?


P.s. forgot to include PT needing massive allen key normally only used for car oil sump plug

P.p.s. Anybody know if those sh1tty bits of cardboard hold their resale value?

Which brings me to THE QUESTION: Has anyone here lost a race because they did not have electronic shifting or PT cranks?

 

[Benotti69]

Which brings me to THE QUESTION: Has anyone here lost a race because they did not have electronic shifting or PT cranks?

I think those posting may have lost face though

Some can afford loads of bikes but not the tools to work on them and wont trust the 'goons' who do it for a living to work on their precious machines.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Tools needed to change Campagnolo Power Torque bearings:

+

Tools needed to change Shimano HT2 bearings:

+

Hmmm.... bear in in mind that the PT has no performance benefit, which one of those systems looks like a total dogs a$$ of a design?


P.s. forgot to include PT needing massive allen key normally only used for car oil sump plug

P.p.s. Anybody know if those sh1tty bits of cardboard hold their resale value?

Don't forget a trash can to put the shimano bearings(and levers) into when they are done.

OBTW-I use Cyclus tools for UT and PT rather than the Park consumer level stuff pictured..Ya know the decent tools bike shop guys have to use everyday, not just once in a 'while'.

 

[DirtyDennis]

Good for you. I would use top quality tools too if I had a manual labour job.

In a way you are right. I should be paying somebody else to do bike wrenching for me. My time is more expensive than theirs so it would make economic sense.

Problem is, I'd still have to check their work over. Brake bolts left loose, headset split rings not put back, wrong number of ball bearings put in hubs....

.....yes, now I remember why I don't trust shop mechanics.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Good for you. I would use top quality tools too if I had a manual labour job.

In a way you are right. I should be paying somebody else to do bike wrenching for me. My time is more expensive than theirs so it would make economic sense.

Problem is, I'd still have to check their work over. Brake bolts left loose, headset split rings not put back, wrong number of ball bearings put in hubs....

.....yes, now I remember why I don't trust shop mechanics.

Over a couple of beers I'll tell ya some stories about 'customers' too.

Yep, I not one of the pretty people, I work for a living, everyday and kiss the ring of the 'customers'.

OBTW-Before this(from 1972 till 1992) I was a Naval Aviator..flew F-4s and F-14s..and provided the security in Europe that the UK has abandoned...

BUT it's just political, a lot like this 'discussion'..I'm out.

 

[BroDeal]

Good for you. I would use top quality tools too if I had a manual labour job.

In a way you are right. I should be paying somebody else to do bike wrenching for me. My time is more expensive than theirs so it would make economic sense.

Problem is, I'd still have to check their work over. Brake bolts left loose, headset split rings not put back, wrong number of ball bearings put in hubs....

.....yes, now I remember why I don't trust shop mechanics.

Indeed. You can't trust the lowly serfs to do a good job anymore. Sometimes that colored boy serves me high tea a few degrees too cold, and one time he even spilled it on my new white gloves in front of my guests. How dare he. Me, a man of property and breeding, I was so embarrassed. It's not like it was in the good old days when we would have such miscreants dancing Tyburn jig.

 

[Oldman]

Indeed. You can't trust the lowly serfs to do a good job anymore. Sometimes that colored boy serves me high tea a few degrees too cold, and one time he even spilled it on my new white gloves in front of my guests. How dare he. Me, a man of property and breeding, I was so embarrassed. It's not like it was in the good old days when we would have such miscreants dancing Tyburn jig.

..or serve as lead out domestiques because our skills merited being paid to ride the latest in gear. No one answered my question and my assumption is no one on this forum has lost a race because they didn't have a pm or electronic shifting.

 

[BroDeal]

..or serve as lead out domestiques because our skills merited being paid to ride the latest in gear. No one answered my question and my assumption is no one on this forum has lost a race because they didn't have a pm or electronic shifting.

Maybe no one here, but do not ask Cadel Evans, especially if you could be mistaken for standing on his dog while asking.

 

[Oldman]

Maybe no one here, but do not ask Cadel Evans, especially if you could be mistaken for standing on his dog while asking.

I believe it is "whilst" standing. Whilst. Definitely.

 

[purcell]

Because that would be throwing the toys out with the pram. I've got loads of Campag kit, including some stuff from the 80's that is as finely machined as a Leica camera.

...and that's the point really. Campagnolo is not what it was. I'm not blaming them for that, they are having to go down the mass market route to try and survive, but the name 'Campagnolo' is no longer a guarantee of the best, and this little debate we are having is because of a particular route they are taking to try and get into the OEM market. They want their kit to be bought by mass market brands and fitted to mass market bikes.

Think about it.... how many of the people who go and buy a $1000 bike are likely to ride it in all conditions and do the sort of mileage that will wear out BB bearings?

I don't think many will, which is why In the design process maintenance has clearly been an after-thought.

In the design process of PT, the main priority is avoiding patent infringement with a system that basically wants to be Hollow tech 2.

My wife would be ecstatic if I would start spending $1,000 on a bike. Truly ecstatic.

If you really are going to ***** about having the tools to do the work on your bike, then either pay "some low skilled goons" (<- that was a very classy turn of phrase. That was ) or take up walking.

But quit *****ing about it.

 

[BroDeal]

I believe it is "whilst" standing. Whilst. Definitely.

"Whilst" is not standard American English.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Which brings me to THE QUESTION: Has anyone here lost a race because they did not have electronic shifting or PT cranks?

Me. All the races I lost are because of that.

 

[ElChingon]

So what do cranks have to do with Electronic Shifting?

Can a mod that is trying their best to keep threads on topic by banning people for no reason cut out the crank discussion and move it to the crank discussion over in that other section that I avoid like the plague.

Here's a thought! Create a crank's only discussion thread! Wow, why has no one ever done that? (leave that threads to the cranks of course)

 

[Dirty Dennis]

Sorry

It was my fault. I got on my high horse last nightn

 

[42x16ss]

So what do cranks have to do with Electronic Shifting?

Can a mod that is trying their best to keep threads on topic by banning people for no reason cut out the crank discussion and move it to the crank discussion over in that other section that I avoid like the plague.

Here's a thought! Create a crank's only discussion thread! Wow, why has no one ever done that? (leave that threads to the cranks of course)

Are you sure you want that? AFAIK Frank and Fergie are still members here...