Electronic shifting v Mechanical?

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Jun 19, 2009
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simo1733 said:
I am in the process of getting Record/SRecord mechanical.I am interested to read that some proo's are using a mix of Record/S Record.
Which components do they favour Record?

There are hot sales on both right now. While my current use is not Pro Tour here's what I mix to save some buck$-
Super Record shifters
Record brakes, front derailleur
Super Record rear derailleur
Record chain
Chorus cassette

get rid of the Campy brake pads, period.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Oldman said:
There are hot sales on both right now. While my current use is not Pro Tour here's what I mix to save some buck$-
Super Record shifters
Record brakes, front derailleur
Super Record rear derailleur
Record chain
Chorus cassette

get rid of the Campy brake pads, period.

OR...Chorus thruout. SR/Chorus shifters, guts identical except for logos. Chorus/metal FD and RD are more durable..no carbon FD cage or all carbon RD-fall-kill-$$

Chorus chain is same w/o holes...

I know you'll lose some coffee shop points but better all around...OR Athena all, with CHorus levers if ya gotta have that more than one higher gear at a time, feature, for the saturday afternoon world championship sprints.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Bustedknuckle said:
OR...Chorus thruout. SR/Chorus shifters, guts identical except for logos. Chorus/metal FD and RD are more durable..no carbon FD cage or all carbon RD-fall-kill-$$

Chorus chain is same w/o holes...

I know you'll lose some coffee shop points but better all around...OR Athena all, with CHorus levers if ya gotta have that more than one higher gear at a time, feature, for the saturday afternoon world championship sprints.

I would agree on the Chorus but there is some vanity involved in the selection process....
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Oldman said:
I would agree on the Chorus but there is some vanity involved in the selection process....

like I said, coffee shop points. If ya got the $..sure SR crank, levers..Record brakes BUT Chorus FD, RD, cogset and chain..IMHO. Use Record cups also, better sealed.
 
Dec 7, 2010
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Polyarmour said:
I've been riding DA Di2 for 5 months now. Performed impeccably until the weekend when it left me stranded in the 12 tooth on the local mountain.

As the result of what?

Battery? Cable?

Curious.
 
Jun 19, 2009
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Bustedknuckle said:
like I said, coffee shop points. If ya got the $..sure SR crank, levers..Record brakes BUT Chorus FD, RD, cogset and chain..IMHO. Use Record cups also, better sealed.

I may have some residual vanity but the price on the SR crank is a line I can't cross. E-bayed FSA K Force works just fine at $225.
 
Jul 20, 2010
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Granville57 said:
As the result of what?

Battery? Cable?

Curious.

Broken microswitch in right hand lever. Still have power on to the rear derailleur but no signal to change coming out of lever, gear stays where it was... which was the 12 tooth.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Oldman said:
I may have some residual vanity but the price on the SR crank is a line I can't cross. E-bayed FSA K Force works just fine at $225.

Ya get what ya pay for. Crappy bearings, soft rings=FSA(and truvative and sram).

Get the Chorus or Record then. Even Athena, PT, works just fine and far better piece of gear.
 
I generally stay away from FSA chainrings/cranks. My lbs has had tons of problems with them.

Just picked up my ZXRS with the new Di2. So far, so good. Happy with the shifting. The braking is superb.
The shifter buttons seem a bit plastic-y and a bit cheap feeling, but I suppose that is part of making the bike light. Is the Di2 worth it? Well, I love the shifting. It's easy and perfect, just like the previous generation.

I would say purely on aesthetics, I think Campag is much nicer though. Shimano is like a Honda Accord. No frills, just reliable day in and day out. Campag is like a Jaguar. Beautiful, works great, but a bit finicky sometimes, at least in my experience.
 

DirtyDennis

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Jun 14, 2013
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Moose McKnuckles said:
I generally stay away from FSA chainrings/cranks. My lbs has had tons of problems with them.

I agree. I will never buy another FSA chain set. I had a carbon SLK. Had to use gap-fill adhesive to make the thing work. Absolute p.o.s.

I would say purely on aesthetics, I think Campag is much nicer though. Shimano is like a Honda Accord. No frills, just reliable day in and day out. Campag is like a Jaguar. Beautiful, works great, but a bit finicky sometimes, at least in my experience.

I think the days of Campag producing the best engineered stuff are long over. The cranks work, but the UT system is fussy to fit, and removal and bearing changes on the UT and the PT are bordering on the farcical.

The Shimano system works just as well, but is so much easier to maintain.

I agree with you on the aesthetics
 
Apr 11, 2009
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Just read this. Wiggins at Trentino press conference after tossing the Pinarello following gearing problems:

"It's not the bike, it's Shimano I'm mad at. If you're going to buy one of these, don't buy it with an electronic groupo from Shimano. Buy the Campag one."
(Cycle Sport, Tour de France preview issue, p. 07).

Apparently said this in front of Brailsford too. Ha, ha!

Dave B. probably got a call from his friendly neighbourhood Shimano team sponsor guy: "Hocho koi Kamikazee disembowel Wiggjons, ####.....^^^^^. Kamikazee, endo."

Disclaimer, LOL. I have DI2 Ultegra.:p
 
Jul 23, 2009
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DirtyDennis said:
I agree. I will never buy another FSA chain set. I had a carbon SLK. Had to use gap-fill adhesive to make the thing work. Absolute p.o.s.



I think the days of Campag producing the best engineered stuff are long over. The cranks work, but the UT system is fussy to fit, and removal and bearing changes on the UT and the PT are bordering on the farcical.

The Shimano system works just as well, but is so much easier to maintain.

I agree with you on the aesthetics

UT 'system' is far superior to any outboard bearing system now made. NOT saying outboard bearing is any answer to any question but as the last adopters in 2007, far better design than shimano/sram/truvativ/fsa.

If removal of UT or PT seems like a farce, you need better tools and perhaps some instruction. Did ya think pulling cranks off in square taper era was farcical?

10mm or 17mm allen, a puller(remember those, every decent wrench has one)..Plus a few pullers and installers for the bearings. Have ya swapped shimano/sram cup bearings lately? Oh yes, throw away like a BIC lighter, like most shimano/sram.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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Parrot23 said:
Just read this. Wiggins at Trentino press conference after tossing the Pinarello following gearing problems:

"It's not the bike, it's Shimano I'm mad at. If you're going to buy one of these, don't buy it with an electronic groupo from Shimano. Buy the Campag one."
(Cycle Sport, Tour de France preview issue, p. 07).

Apparently said this in front of Brailsford too. Ha, ha!

Dave B. probably got a call from his friendly neighbourhood Shimano team sponsor guy: "Hocho koi Kamikazee disembowel Wiggjons, ####.....^^^^^. Kamikazee, endo."

Disclaimer, LOL. I have DI2 Ultegra.:p

Well, like most things Campagnolo vs shimano. Yes less sophisticated, bigger, less teeny 'stuff(like connectors and switches), no rush towards satellite switches, teeny hidden batteries, many connectors..'some' whine about the 'looks' of EPS but once set up, it is much more durable to the rigors of riders who just slam their bikes around.

Gonna plumb a somewhat knackered MXLeader for EPS...Athena.
 

DirtyDennis

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Jun 14, 2013
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Bustedknuckle said:
UT 'system' is far superior to any outboard bearing system now made. NOT saying outboard bearing is any answer to any question but as the last adopters in 2007, far better design than shimano/sram/truvativ/fsa.

If removal of UT or PT seems like a farce, you need better tools and perhaps some instruction. Did ya think pulling cranks off in square taper era was farcical?

10mm or 17mm allen, a puller(remember those, every decent wrench has one)..Plus a few pullers and installers for the bearings. Have ya swapped shimano/sram cup bearings lately? Oh yes, throw away like a BIC lighter, like most shimano/sram.

I run both systems, several sets on several machines.Square taper era? It still is the square taper era if you ride track, which I do as well.

Ask around. You are holding a minority viewpoint here. Problems with UT are well-known.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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DirtyDennis said:
I run both systems, several sets on several machines.Square taper era? It still is the square taper era if you ride track, which I do as well.

Ask around. You are holding a minority viewpoint here. Problems with UT are well-known.

I own a bike shop, I've see(n) it all, for over 25 years. The UT/PT I see, install, work on have no 'problems', perhaps operator, installer technique.

Ya seem to like shimano-Octalink on pista cranks..and lash...great design there.


Minority viewpoint, funny, from riders? Or wrenches, good wrenches, not 'I get my info from the interweb' type 'info'.

Yep, and tubulars get more flats-righto
 

DirtyDennis

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Jun 14, 2013
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I know plenty of mechanics that dislike installing UT cranks because they are fussy to install when compared to HT2 cranks.

Its not the install I mind, its the disassembly. There is no performance benefit with Campagnolo. I've found bearing life to be about the same, they both run smoothly....so the notion of having a system that requires several highly priced proprietory tools to service it, as opposed to one cheap wrench for HT2, just doesn't add up.

The truth behind the Campag system being different doesn't lie in supposed superior engineering, it lies in avoiding patent infringements and marketing.

YMMV on this. That's fine. But let me remind you that there are plenty of incompetent bike shop owners and mechanics out there ;)
 
Mar 18, 2009
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DirtyDennis said:
I know plenty of mechanics that dislike installing UT cranks because they are fussy to install when compared to HT2 cranks.

Personally I would rather take the word of someone who is a professional mechanic and has seen hundreds of cases rather than that of someone who "knows" plenty of mechanics, but maybe that's just me.
 

DirtyDennis

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Jun 14, 2013
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Maybe you should read his post. He asked.

Personally I would prefer to take my own experience, and that of people I know in the real world over internet characters.

But anyway, what are your thoughts on the UT sub-debate here? How have you found the maintenance?

Thank you for your valuable contribution.
 
Jul 23, 2009
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DirtyDennis said:
I know plenty of mechanics that dislike installing UT cranks because they are fussy to install when compared to HT2 cranks.

Its not the install I mind, its the disassembly. There is no performance benefit with Campagnolo. I've found bearing life to be about the same, they both run smoothly....so the notion of having a system that requires several highly priced proprietory tools to service it, as opposed to one cheap wrench for HT2, just doesn't add up.

The truth behind the Campag system being different doesn't lie in supposed superior engineering, it lies in avoiding patent infringements and marketing.

YMMV on this. That's fine. But let me remind you that there are plenty of incompetent bike shop owners and mechanics out there ;)

Hmmm fussy, not sure what that means, pretty straight forward, as are shimano/sram/truvativ/fsa. I work on a lot more sram/fsa/truvativ than the others cuz the BB bearings are such crap(mostly the ceramic-what a joke-expensive one).

Yep, plenty of the same with 'users' as well, those who get their info 2nd, 3rd, or 4th hand or what they read somewhere on the 'web'.

If you are going to be a service oriented pro shop(and I am a Campagnolo pro shop, have been since they started the program), you have the proper tools, whether you need to work on Campagnolo or the other '2' type componentry.

I have plenty of tools required for shimano too, like the tool that took off the 7400 series freehub body and even for french and Swiss bottom brackets. Lack of tools means lack of knowledge, what a decent bike shop is supposed to be. BUT you use whatever you wish, and I'll continue to service all this 'stuff'.

OBTW-I really like my NM torque wrench..ya know, the one that's essential for shimano crank fixing bolts? Yep, that one, only cost $200.
 

DirtyDennis

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Jun 14, 2013
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heres why

Bustedknuckle said:

You know why. UT has a tolerance of 68.2-70.8.

Yep, plenty of the same with 'users' as well, those who get their info 2nd, 3rd, or 4th hand or what they read somewhere on the 'web'.

The web is full of bullsh1t. As a rule I try not to add to it which is why, in general, I'll only talk from first hand experience. I will accept that there are undoubtedly loads of badly fitted UT units causing problems because of the failure to adhere to he strict tolerances

If you are going to be a service oriented pro shop(and I am a Campagnolo pro shop, have been since they started the program), you have the proper tools, whether you need to work on Campagnolo or the other '2' type componentry.

Well this is at the crux of why we are disagreeing.

You are looking at this from the point of view of a bike shop owner. You need to invest in tools, and you know that expensive tools will pay for themselves.

I'm not. I'm a rider who does big miles. I do all my mechanics except for:

A) when I'm using something (usually old/defunct/esoteric) where I need some someone with historical knowledge and experience who I might need to get medieval on the part with a blowtorch and pliers

B) When the job requires a very expensive tool whose purchase I not going to be merited by the very rare use it might get.

It is B that we are talking about here. In the past, the kind of tools I might be talking about are things like BB and Head tube facing tools..the sort of thing that gets used once in the lifetime of the frame but costs several hundred pounds to buy.

All of a sudden, I now find that changing a Power Torque bearing is in this category. The official tools cost nearly £100. Of course you can grind down an automotive puller and use some foreign coins as the blank for less cash, but the point is for the keen cyclist this is a ridiculous thing to have to do for what used to be a simple task.

The point is not that the jobs are fiddly and difficult...they aren't....but it is needlessly complicated and expensive to tool up for.

Granted, the UT is simpler to remove, but it is the PT that really annoys me. This is because the extra hassle and expense to get the thing off is all about solving another problem.....but not a functional problem that the end user will benefit from, but a marketing problem that benefits only Campag. Namely, how do you make a mass market OEM crank set which isn't as costly as the UT, can easily be fitted to cheaper branded bikes by less skilled factory workers, and isn't going to infringe any patents held by Shimano?

Power Torque is the answer to that, but it is an answer to Campags market in problem and nothing else
 
Apr 8, 2012
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Great, another DIY cyclist complaining about having to buy tools. Haven't heard that before.. :rolleyes: You also need special tools for auto and moto, but for some reason it's always the cycling enthusiast that can't fathom spending another dime on a tool. Why?