Electronic shifting v Mechanical?

[hfer07]

Di2 DA 11 speed accommodates a range of 11-29. No need to tune when switching cassettes as spacing doesn't change. If switching between standard and compact, all that is needed is to change the rings not the whole crankset as bolt points are now the same.

I run 3 road racing bikes at the mo each with ratios and wheels to suit different terrain so haven't had to address the issue in practice but the above is what my LBS told me.

PS, my LBS has a computer module that plugs in to tune Di2 - I'm sure u can run it off any PC, but I leave that stuff to my LBS

thanks a lot.

I'm old school as far as gruppo selection & shifting option- I have used Campagnolo all my life with an spare bike set up with DA-really pleased with it BTW - perhaps not tempted to do the switch yet since I can't quite justify the cost/benefit of it at the moment, but I know as the Electronic shifting market gets broader & more price friendly, the decision will be made by itself.

to the OP:

I found this video for you to check out-hope it helps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESfnJ1nC5FU

 

[PACONi]

I have been on Ultegra Di2 for about 12 months now. It's brilliant. I ride a custom Ti bike so it has internal cable routing and the battery is hidden under the non drive side chainstay.

The other day, I was able to re-tune my rear derailleur whilst riding. I slowed down, but didn't need to stop or hop off the bike!

Edit : I had to re-tune after a crash. i destroyed the frame, but the group survived, despite the right shifter and rear derailleur takng a pretty big hit. Building a Di2 bike is easy. It's all plug and play! The old DA Di2 had heat shrink connections, I think. That would have been a bit more of a hassle.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Di2 is pretty cool, but EPS is waaay cooler. Just sayin'.

 

[ElChingon]

Di2 is pretty cool, but EPS is waaay cooler. Just sayin'.

Both are wired and for the 21st Century are complete fails since wireless had already been done.

Can't wait for people to get excited about a wired phone to a pole.

 

[laziali]

Both are wired and for the 21st Century are complete fails since wireless had already been done.

Can't wait for people to get excited about a wired phone to a pole.

Wired phone to pole - that's so awesome where can I get it

Seriously though, wired for Di2 makes perfect sense because the distance between shifters and motors doesn't change materially and the wires don't interfere in any way with movement or aerodynamics. So no need to incur the extra weight, batteries hassle and risk of a wireless system.

just imagine - Contador is flying up a climb in the Tour on wireless and some punk on the side of the rode with a wireless remote hacked to his frequency changes it from 39/25 to 53/11

 

[PCutter]

One word of caution in your build (though I have no personal experience) all the reviews I've read of Di2 bikes with non-Shimano cranksets/rings (ie bikes using FSA or other) has said it negatively effects shifting quality so if you're going Di2 don't cut corners on the crankset to keep the price down.

I'm starting to have this debate (Di2/manual) myself as my current group (original SRAM Force) is starting to show its age (5yrs old).

 

[ElChingon]

Wired phone to pole - that's so awesome where can I get it

Seriously though, wired for Di2 makes perfect sense because the distance between shifters and motors doesn't change materially and the wires don't interfere in any way with movement or aerodynamics. So no need to incur the extra weight, batteries hassle and risk of a wireless system.

just imagine - Contador is flying up a climb in the Tour on wireless and some punk on the side of the rode with a wireless remote hacked to his frequency changes it from 39/25 to 53/11

Wireless shifting existed in the good old days and no hacks or hackers ever broke it. With EMP type interference even your car will get interfered with so its not a totally out of the question hack but then again your wired Di2 is just as hackable from the roadside punk as anything else.

 

[laziali]

Wireless shifting existed in the good old days and no hacks or hackers ever broke it. With EMP type interference even your car will get interfered with so its not a totally out of the question hack but then again your wired Di2 is just as hackable from the roadside punk as anything else.

If you are talking about Mavic Zap/Mektronic then LMAO - I remember a buddy of mine bought it in the 90s and it was truly, horrendously sh!te - Dante's seventh level of hell bad. Discontinued with red faces all round at Mavic. You still got a Betamax, eh?

 

[laziali]

Di2 is pretty cool, but EPS is waaay cooler. Just sayin'.

Can't disagree EPS is cooler but does it shift as well at DA 9070?

 

[ElChingon]

If you are talking about Mavic Zap/Mektronic then LMAO - I remember a buddy of mine bought it in the 90s and it was truly, horrendously sh!te - Dante's seventh level of hell bad. Discontinued with red faces all round at Mavic. You still got a Betamax, eh?

I was one of the few that had it running for years and it worked great, 4 to be exact. It was the best thing ever! I still have it in storage. On seeing the return of Electronic shifting I expected more and definitely no wires or a big honking battery pack that looks like a fanny pack on the bike, total fail on a road bike.

 

[laziali]

Have a read of the thread, you'll see the photos of my Shimano seat post internal battery. No fanny pack fail there. Only reason pro teams use the external battery is because they need to access them more often. You must have the one good Zap ever made - quick, with that luck you should buy a lottery ticket.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

I'm building a bike - frame up for the 1st time and I'm not sure whether to go for electronic shifting or stick with the tried and tested - mechanical shifting (SRAM Red or Dura Ace). Does anyone have any experience of Di2 - opinions appreciated.
Or put it this way - should any self respecting 'top end' bike build be kitted out with an electronic gearset? Thanks

Electronic shifting is really mechanical shifting powered by electronics. MUCH more expensive and replacement parts, like rear ders, are very expensive.

If electronic look at Athena EPS or Ultegra Di2(with the understanding that Ultegra Di2 will be 'orphaned' in 2014..going to 11s). Same $ as Record mechanical or DA mechanical.

If mechanical-look at DA 9000 or Record..stay away from sram. Even with very complicated front der and brakes, they still are pretty far from the other 2 in terms of function and reliability.

AND in spite of Red being 'brand new', an 11s Red is coming making 2013 Red obsolete in one year.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Both are wired and for the 21st Century are complete fails since wireless had already been done.

Can't wait for people to get excited about a wired phone to a pole.

Batteries in the levers, batteries in the derailleurs...wireless isn't going to happen. Reliability will take a hit, will need a slew of batteries, charging one won't charge the others..it brings nothing to the table in terms of shifting ease and reliability. It adds complication and expense. A phone has no moving parts.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Can't disagree EPS is cooler but does it shift as well at DA 9070?

Installed both and yes, they work very similarly well. Too bad DA 11s makes so many wheels obsolete but...

I like the hard wired technology of EPS. Fewer connectors, which is the 'weak link' for any electronic system.

I think seat tube batteries(shimano DA 9070) are keen but they also are smaller, require a computer to charge(USB only) and hold less charge.

 

[ElChingon]

Batteries in the levers, batteries in the derailleurs...wireless isn't going to happen. Reliability will take a hit, will need a slew of batteries, charging one won't charge the others..it brings nothing to the table in terms of shifting ease and reliability. It adds complication and expense. A phone has no moving parts.

You mean its too complicated so instead every kids toy is wireless, yea great argument there. You probably have not seen just about every other gadget on the planet that's wireless controlled yet, might want to take a peek.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

You mean its too complicated so instead every kids toy is wireless, yea great argument there. You probably have not seen just about every other gadget on the planet that's wireless controlled yet, might want to take a peek.

Coming from a guy who thinks Mavic Mektronic was great group. Yeah, stellar argument argument for wireless. My 1986 Suntour Cyclone group was better performing than Mektronic.

 

[alitogata]

Ok .. I know that you'll think that I'm trolling now, but please tell me.. What is the reason to go for an electronic groupset by the time that has the same design and logic with a mechanical groupset?

I mean still has the same kind of shifters, in the same place and the only thing that changes is this auto trim of the front derailleur which is not such a problem for an experienced rider.

I personally would expect something more from electronic groupsets in order to make the upgrade. For example a totally new design on shifters, perhaps something in soft touch (!!), or not having to move my fingers from the bar, or no cables at all, or even better, shifting in gear ratios instead of front disks and cassette's sprockets, something that would eliminated any chain problems. and would allow to exist only one shifter on the handlebar instead of two and so less weight and even more accurate shifting.

I think that that's the meaning of going electronic. Otherwise mechanical groupsets, especially the expensive ones, work perfectly as they are ( and in the logic of "less is more").

 

[laziali]

Installed both and yes, they work very similarly well. Too bad DA 11s makes so many wheels obsolete but...

I like the hard wired technology of EPS. Fewer connectors, which is the 'weak link' for any electronic system.

I think seat tube batteries(shimano DA 9070) are keen but they also are smaller, require a computer to charge(USB only) and hold less charge.

Thanks, haven't ridden EPS only Di2 so appreciate the comparison.

I was worried too about DA 11spd and my 2012 (10-spd) Zipps, but my LBS just whacked on a new freehub body, redished my wheel and was good to go. Admittedly, I can't change the back wheel between bikes, but I have so many wheels that is not a drama

 

[ElChingon]

Coming from a guy who thinks Mavic Mektronic was great group. Yeah, stellar argument argument for wireless. My 1986 Suntour Cyclone group was better performing than Mektronic.

Just because most of you's never figured it doesn't mean it wasn't good, then again I maybe the only one who could take it apart and fix it based on what everyone says, as in with their lack of getting it to work. Or was I the only one willing to buy the tools to work on it.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

Just because most of you's never figured it doesn't mean it wasn't good, then again I maybe the only one who could take it apart and fix it based on what everyone says, as in with their lack of getting it to work. Or was I the only one willing to buy the tools to work on it.

I think you're one of a handful of tools willing to deal with the most sh!t group of our generation I owned a Mektronic group in 1999, still ghost shifted riding underneath high power lines, basically a Zap group with lipstick, worthless pile o' crap.

 

[ElChingon]

I think you're one of a handful of tools willing to deal with the most sh!t group of our generation I owned a Mektronic group in 1999, still ghost shifted riding underneath high power lines, basically a Zap group with lipstick, worthless pile o' crap.

I think you're only letting everyone know your true abilities at bike maintenance.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I think you're only letting everyone know your true abilities at bike maintenance.

That's right, I learned my lesson and refuse to work on anything but Campy.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

You mean its too complicated so instead every kids toy is wireless, yea great argument there. You probably have not seen just about every other gadget on the planet that's wireless controlled yet, might want to take a peek.

Thanks, but I understand what's required to move a mechanical component with electronic power.

I'm sure a wireless kid's toy is exactly like trying to move a chain around a crankset and rear cogset...you mean it's not? A little servo on a toy car that weighs something like a pound isn't the same as moving a chain, even propelled by somebody making 1/4 HP?

They can't even make reliable, long lasting power measuring devices like SRM and Powertap and they have no moving parts. Look at the battery on Di2 and EPS..cut that into fourths and try to figure out how to put those in a ders and levers.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

Just because most of you's never figured it doesn't mean it wasn't good, then again I maybe the only one who could take it apart and fix it based on what everyone says, as in with their lack of getting it to work. Or was I the only one willing to buy the tools to work on it.

Even w/o considering the really crappy mechnical front shifter , Zap and Mektronic were disasters for Mavic. There was a reason Mavic took Mektronic groups back and paid cash to the users, because it was truly junk.

Yep, you were the only one willing(foolish) enough to buy any 'tools' to work on it. The rest of us installed groups that actually worked.

 

[ElChingon]

Even w/o considering the really crappy mechnical front shifter , Zap and Mektronic were disasters for Mavic. There was a reason Mavic took Mektronic groups back and paid cash to the users, because it was truly junk.

Yep, you were the only one willing(foolish) enough to buy any 'tools' to work on it. The rest of us installed groups that actually worked.

Obviously you were the one who was foolishly enough to end up buying two groupo's when I some of us rode the same one during that time.