End of taking the High Road?

[craig1985]

GreenE are in the same boat as HTC. No main sponsor, just a personal guarantee.
They sound a lot like Pegasus 2 to me and may find it hard to secure riders of the quality, such as those on your shopping list.

TBF GreenEdge have a lot more professional management, and one of the men behind the project, Gerry Ryan, is a very successful businessman (and a big supporter of Australian cycling, and was rewarded when Michael Mathews won the u23 Worlds RR last year).

 

[Swabian Lass]

And Martin for Paris-Nice/ Velits for Vuelta GC. I think these riders work well together it would be a shame to see them broken up. But we shall find out tomorrow,

To say nothing of the women's team. I have a great deal of respect for Stapleton - the HTC women's team is one of the few funded on a level that begins to approach the men's. my big fear is that potential sponsors won't be interested in continuing that and the team breaks up.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stapleton should fund them out of his back pocket again. It's not like he can't afford to run a team that way, he just won't be able to afford to run one at the same level. There have been persistent rumours of a merger with United Healthcare.

If Mauro Gianetti can find not one, not two, not three but FOUR new major sponsors in the last 3 years, then all it tells you is that Stapleton is asking for too much money if nobody will sponsor him. People stepped in to rescue Saunier Duval, Fuji and Footon-Servetto, and that comes with way less success than HTC.

The problem for GreenEdge could be the same one that was the problem for Pegasus. Sponsors willing to commit IF they get the guarantees of major race participation vis-à-vis World Tour licence. And the team being reliant on that money coming in to be able to afford the riders that will get them that licence.

 

[mulletCobra]

" El Pistolero " has shown how Proficient the team is , even without " King Cav ",who only started featuring half way through the "Victory list "!

Certainly the "World Economy " will affect "borderline teams" but i doubt that it can stop " Heavy hitters " from seeing the value this Team offers !

I find your use of quotation marks to be " disturbing "

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

On the UCI World rankings (standings after TdF), if Cavendish's points were removed from HTC, they would fall from 3rd all the way down to, umm, 4th.

If Sky were to get his points, they would have leapt from 8th to, oh, errmm, 8th.

 

[fatandfast]

Stapleton should fund them out of his back pocket again. It's not like he can't afford to run a team that way, he just won't be able to afford to run one at the same level. There have been persistent rumours of a merger with United Healthcare.

If Mauro Gianetti can find not one, not two, not three but FOUR new major sponsors in the last 3 years, then all it tells you is that Stapleton is asking for too much money if nobody will sponsor him. People stepped in to rescue Saunier Duval, Fuji and Footon-Servetto, and that comes with way less success than HTC.

The problem for GreenEdge could be the same one that was the problem for Pegasus. Sponsors willing to commit IF they get the guarantees of major race participation vis-à-vis World Tour licence. And the team being reliant on that money coming in to be able to afford the riders that will get them that licence.

Bob should take out his credit card and buy Geox. It's has product appeal world wide, or go with another sportswear group, the teams he has both men's and women's have exposure that can't be matched at present. Once the team is renamed w another big co sponsor he can flush all the turds out.
Geox-HTC or Nokia, Motorola,Kyocera or other would fit perfect. Sending the standout riders to other teams will not have the same effect on bike racing

 

[benpounder]

[...]

Stipulated. Lots of wins. But taking out Cav reduces that list by alot. Also, of the remainder, most of those are Cav's leadout men. Without Cav, would they stay with HTC? Without Cav as leader, would they be as successful (Greipel is good, but how many big stage wins does he have)?

Granted, Tony Martin is winning on his own, but how excited would a possible sponsor be for a one dimensional racer. Cancellera at least wins Classics...

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Without Cav as leader, would they be as successful?

Cavendish's contribution to Pinotti's top ten finishes in Tirreno Adriatico and Tour de Romandie? His support of Sivtsov's Giro placing? His assistance to Bak in finishing in the top 5, and Eisel 2 places behind him, in Roubaix?

 

[ansimi]

Cavendish's contribution to Pinotti's top ten finishes in Tirreno Adriatico and Tour de Romandie? His support of Sivtsov's Giro placing? His assistance to Bak in finishing in the top 5, and Eisel 2 places behind him, in Roubaix?

Well, Cav started Roubaix this year. He might have carried some water? I'm sure he at least gave some words of encouragement

But really, Cav's whole train is capable of results on their own. HTC has a strong team and they seem like a well-run organization. They seem so professional that it's odd that they can't work out sponsorship.

 

[El Pistolero]

Stipulated. Lots of wins. But taking out Cav reduces that list by alot. Also, of the remainder, most of those are Cav's leadout men. Without Cav, would they stay with HTC? Without Cav as leader, would they be as successful (Greipel is good, but how many big stage wins does he have)?

Granted, Tony Martin is winning on his own, but how excited would a possible sponsor be for a one dimensional racer. Cancellera at least wins Classics...

By a lot? Math Goss and Martin have been racking up a lot of good victories and neither will follow Cav.

Cav hasn't won that many races you know... The majority of the wins aren't from Cav.

 

[fatandfast]

I think you are talking about different things. each of the 3 guys mentioned are great bike racers and have shown that they can win big races. Cav has more recognition than the other two 10 fold. People are watching and reading to see his results, same with the other two guys but I am sure the numbers are much lower

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

They seem so professional that it's odd that they can't work out sponsorship.

It is not odd at all. The team is too expensive. It is much easier to find a main sponsor willing to put up eight million euros than it is to find one willing to put up twelve. This is one of the flaws of the Pro Tour/World Tour concept.

 

[rata de sentina]

HTC are not "a one trick pony". This is a statement from someone who only watches the tour. Hello...July is over, why are you still hanging around?

 

[dsut4392]

Rogers was never a GT contender..... That was just Phil and Paul anglophone hype.......yes he was in a break in 07 Tour but seriously he would have been no where near Rasmussen on the final climb

But yes i do agree that illness has hampered him though...would have been nice to see him in races like Tour of Cal and there for Wiggins in Tour even if he did crash out.

I disagree. In '06 he was very strong in the mountains in support of Kloden, and deserved to be a 'legitimate' contender for '07. Let's not forget Rasmussen didn't win in 07 anyway, so whether Rogers could have kept up with him on the final climb is moot.

As for what has hampered him since, the closure of a certain clinic in Freiburg may or may not have something to do with it.

 

[gregrowlerson]

I disagree. In '06 he was very strong in the mountains in support of Kloden, and deserved to be a 'legitimate' contender for '07. Let's not forget Rasmussen didn't win in 07 anyway, so whether Rogers could have kept up with him on the final climb is moot.

As for what has hampered him since, the closure of a certain clinic in Freiburg may or may not have something to do with it.

Freiburg clinic or no Freiburg clinic, not once did Rogers get close to going with the big boys on a MTF in the TDF - nor did he ever ride a strong ITT in the three week race. Yes, he rode well in '06, and deserved his top 10 finish, but I think it was laughable that some Aussie journos were saying that he should have been leading the team instead of Kloden. Could Michael have ridden like that up Alp du'ez? Where was he in comparison to Kloden in the final TT? Could he have gone with Rasmussen and Contador in the climbs of the '07 Tour?

Not a chance. I very much doubt that he would have been close to Evans.

 

[Eric8-A]

The main reason they're referring to HTC as a one man team is because they romaticize Cavendish way too much. I mean look who's wearing the leader's number on their back at the Tour. They obviously care way too much about him given that they work their GC guys to pull and work in the leadout train.

As far as the whole sponsorship thing goes, I do hope HTC folds. I'm getting tired of them. At first I was just sick with Cavendish. Now I'm getting tired of Tony Martin. It'll probably get the point where I'll hate everybody signed on to that team.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I disagree. In '06 he was very strong in the mountains in support of Kloden, and deserved to be a 'legitimate' contender for '07. Let's not forget Rasmussen didn't win in 07 anyway, so whether Rogers could have kept up with him on the final climb is moot.

As for what has hampered him since, the closure of a certain clinic in Freiburg may or may not have something to do with it.

Rogers has never, ever been a GT contender.
Why else do you think Sky bought him?

 

[movingtarget]

Rogers has never, ever been a GT contender.
Why else do you think Sky bought him?

An in form Rogers would be a good domestique for Wiggins but he has had so much trouble with illness over the years and never really proved he had the recuperative abilities to be a real contender for a grand tour. He does well in the one week long stage races like Tony Martin does sometimes but he always had bad days in the mountains in the longer races. Ironically 2007 looked to be the year where he might improve and then he crashed out. Top ten finishes don't always make a grand tour winner unfortunately. I think Mick is due for a change of luck and improved health. Hope he returns healthy in 2012. I thought his fourth place in the 2008 Olympic Road Race and his win in the Tour of California were two of his better results and his top 10 in the TDF of course.

 

[benpounder]

HTC are not "a one trick pony". This is a statement from someone who only watches the tour. Hello...July is over, why are you still hanging around?

Easy there fella...

HTC is an American outfit; Stapleton is most likely looking for American sponsors. As such, aside from the TdF, the ToCal, and Paris-Roubaix, results do not penetrate the casual American spectator. It is not so much that HTC is a one trick pony, it is that Stapleton needs HTC to be a one trick pony. He loses Cav (and without serious GT talent), he loses his raison d'être.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Easy there fella...

HTC is an American outfit; Stapleton is most likely looking for American sponsors. As such, aside from the TdF, the ToCal, and Paris-Roubaix, results do not penetrate the casual American spectator. It is not so much that HTC is a one trick pony, it is that Stapleton needs HTC to be a one trick pony. He loses Cav (and without serious GT talent), he loses his raison d'être.

no he doesn't

 

[Angliru]

I honestly thought Michael Rogers was a potential GT winner a few years ago. Seems illness and injuries have caught up with him though

Rogers himself has resigned himself to pursuing success in the weeklong stage races, recognizing that the gc at grand tours is not his bag.

 

[Eric8-A]

I've always wondered why they put Kloden to work for Rogers.

 

[gustienordic]

This is very true. I used to be one such American spectator. I didn't know anything about even the Vuelta or Giro. For American cycling, the only thing people care about is finding someone to replace Lance. Since that hopefully will never happen, American fans are going to have to learn how to enjoy more of the sport. More extensive tv coverage is the first thing they need. I myself am sick of having to stream everything from Eurosport. If HTC and other American teams are to survive, they must find a way to increase television coverage. Perhaps establish a deal with someone other then Versus, and get some better commentators. That will have to be the future of American cycling.

Easy there fella...

HTC is an American outfit; Stapleton is most likely looking for American sponsors. As such, aside from the TdF, the ToCal, and Paris-Roubaix, results do not penetrate the casual American spectator. It is not so much that HTC is a one trick pony, it is that Stapleton needs HTC to be a one trick pony. He loses Cav (and without serious GT talent), he loses his raison d'être.

 

[Willy_Voet]

It is not odd at all. The team is too expensive. It is much easier to find a main sponsor willing to put up eight million euros than it is to find one willing to put up twelve. This is one of the flaws of the Pro Tour/World Tour concept.

That's an interesting point and probably worth debating. I'd love to know what goes into a sponsorship proposal and the negotiating process.

My first impression is that 12 million euro is not that much compared to the investment in other sports. That's like two players on a top US football, basketball or baseball team. Plus, the TdF is guaranteed exposure. I know complete goofballs who watch golf and NFL football most of the year, yet always ask me if so-and-so is going to win the Tour.

The ProTour concept has its merits, but it has never crystallized as the powerful selling point the UCI wished it was.

I think time to hand the reigns over to the ASO...they have pretty good experience at running these commercially viable things.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

That's an interesting point and probably worth debating. I'd love to know what goes into a sponsorship proposal and the negotiating process.

My first impression is that 12 million euro is not that much compared to the investment in other sports. That's like two players on a top US football, basketball or baseball team. Plus, the TdF is guaranteed exposure. I know complete goofballs who watch golf and NFL football most of the year, yet always ask me if so-and-so is going to win the Tour.

The ProTour concept has its merits, but it has never crystallized as the powerful selling point the UCI wished it was.

I think time to hand the reigns over to the ASO...they have pretty good experience at running these commercially viable things.

All those american sports have multi-billion dollar TV contracts, and the teams get a cut. Cycling is a sponsorship based sport. It is completely different. As the price to sponsor a major team goes up, the number of companies capable of doling out that kind of cash goes down. How much revenue does a company have to have to spend 12 million euro on a cycling team? I would not be surprised if there are ten to twenty times the number of companies capable of spending 5 million euros as the number capable of spending 12 million. The pool of potential sponsors is now limited to pretty large companies. The cost is so high now that it has priced out the medium sized company run by someone who raced when he was younger, has a passion for cycling, and is willing to ovespend his company's money to support his passion.