ENECO Tour August 17 - 24

Page 24 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 14, 2010
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Mellow Velo said:
EBH sprinter = Edvald Beaten Hagain.
I'm a bit concerned that he is starting to look like master Jack of all trades, but a master of none.

A Valverde style classics rider seems the obvious niche, but will he ever be able to climb as well as Piti?

I think next year he needs to get the sprints under his belt. Milan san remo, and green jersey. Peak for those 2. I think both are within his reach. He is a better sprinter than Hushovd atm and a better all rounder as well. He does it right he can get the green.
Maybe he can get the worlds this year or next year by some fluke to.

After that, with the sprints in the bag, focus on the climbing. He will lose a lot of that speed and will probably not be able to compete bunch sprints anyonmore (though valverde somehow manages it) but will improve his climbing, stay up there, and get bonus seconds in stages where the heads of state finish together.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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ingsve said:
+1

I wish they would bring back the old World Cup because I think he could do very well in the overall. Withinh a few years he should be able to podium at least half of the World Cup races like MSR, RVV, P-R, Cyclassic, P-Tours and could possibly do well in AGR as well in the future.

You think he can do cobbled classics? perhaps. He is about as good at time trials as Cancellara was at his age. Doesnt mean he will mature that way, but he is a power rider so i see this as a possibility too.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
well at least he kicks Boom's *** at everthing now.

There were times where Boom could actually beat Hagen, especially in little tours like this one. When they were both racing against eachother as espoirs
I've enjoyed Boom's racing in this stage far more than Hagen's, for what it's worth. Although blowing up Steegmans in your wheel when you could actually use him to get to the line wasn't the smartest move of the day.
 
Jul 19, 2009
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I wonder what expectations people have for Hagen when they get dissapointed about him losing a sprint agaist Greipel. Get real people!
 
Jun 22, 2009
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I think Boom has raced quite well here.
In terms of progress his season has been ok. Good learning curb. He has done better on the cobbles than I thought he would. Obviously struggles with the longer distances though.

Agree EBH is on a different level though.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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Balleballe said:
I wonder what expectations people have for Hagen when they get dissapointed about him losing a sprint agaist Greipel. Get real people!
While EBH's results this eneco tour has perhaps been disappointing, I think that he's shown that he's a lot stronger than last year nonetheless. He has been looking good on all the climbs so far, which definitely wasn't the case in 2009.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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The Hitch said:
You think he can do cobbled classics? perhaps. He is about as good at time trials as Cancellara was at his age. Doesnt mean he will mature that way, but he is a power rider so i see this as a possibility too.

Why wouldn't he be able to do cobbled classics? He has all qualities needed to be a good cobbled rider. He's fast, strong and can climb well in shorter climbs up to a few km. Last year he did his first cobbled season and was still able to win one of the classics (one with a little less cobbles but still) and this year he was injured through the whole cobbled season except for Het Volk where he was 6th.

The only thing speaking against him right now is his age. He will only get better when he gets older and increases his thoughness with more training kms in his legs.
 
Jun 9, 2010
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Balleballe said:
I wonder what expectations people have for Hagen when they get dissapointed about him losing a sprint agaist Greipel. Get real people!

Hey hey... Greipel is an awesome Sprinter... Next year we'll see it against Manxman and I'm sure that He'll win some sprints against him...
 
Jun 22, 2009
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EBH has me convinced in all areas except the high mountains. I still don't think he will become a GC threat in the harder stage races and GTs.

He will however imo, win many ITTs, sprints (I don't see him dominating in cav-like-fashion)one day races, and many stage races like this.

Ryaguas said:
Hey hey... Greipel is an awesome Sprinter... Next year we'll see it against Manxman and I'm sure that He'll win some sprints against him...

think he was being sarcastic.

I think (..hope?) that too, Cav needs to be brought down a
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Balleballe said:
I wonder what expectations people have for Hagen when they get dissapointed about him losing a sprint agaist Greipel. Get real people!

+1

But I think today, it was like a MUST to beat Greipel after all his efforts.
Same goes for the other fast people in that group.

Let´s wait and see. I see EBH really peaking at the worlds. Perhaps Greipel is on topform too early.
 
Mar 12, 2010
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EBH is clrearly very very talented.

I think age and experience are counting against him and with better smarts he could have won at least one stage of the ENCO tour this year.

I agree with those who say he can excell in the cobbled classics; he certainly has the physique for it. I think at the moment he is too heavy to compete in LBL and Lombardy but those could surely become a target too when he gets older.

As for GTs I don't think he will be anything other than a stage contender (and likely multiple stage winner), I think his frame is too bulky. I can see him continuing to do well in week long stage races though.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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ingsve said:
Why wouldn't he be able to do cobbled classics? He has all qualities needed to be a good cobbled rider. He's fast, strong and can climb well in shorter climbs up to a few km. Last year he did his first cobbled season and was still able to win one of the classics (one with a little less cobbles but still) and this year he was injured through the whole cobbled season except for Het Volk where he was 6th.

The only thing speaking against him right now is his age. He will only get better when he gets older and increases his thoughness with more training kms in his legs.
I remember reading an interview with him after Gent-Wevelgem, where the interviewer asked him something about riding on cobbles. EBH answered (from my memory): "People tell me that I'm good at riding cobbles. I don't know, I don't like it at all!"
 
Oct 29, 2009
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Timmy-loves-Rabo said:
I think Boom has raced quite well here.
In terms of progress his season has been ok. Good learning curb. He has done better on the cobbles than I thought he would. Obviously struggles with the longer distances though.

Agree EBH is on a different level though.

I had liked to have seen a bit more from Boom this year, based more on hope than actual expectations. Solid progress, but the top-plateau he appears to be heading for is becoming clearer too.

EBH has a brighter future ahead, I think there is general agreement there. I can't stretch my hopes and expectations quite as far as The Hitch went here though. I know the guy is still young, very young, but I think his year has also started to foreshadow some of the limitations that he has brought to the table. I'm starting to see more to temper my expectations than raise them, to be frank.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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Francois the Postman said:
I had liked to have seen a bit more from Boom this year, based more on hope than actual expectations. Solid progress, but the top-plateau he appears to be heading for is becoming clearer too.

EBH has a brighter future ahead, I think there is general agreement there. I can't stretch my hopes and expectations quite as far as The Hitch went here though. I know the guy is still young, very young, but I think his year has also started to foreshadow some of the limitations that he has brought to the table. I'm starting to see more to temper my expectations than raise them, to be frank.

when i said msr, lbl, gts and worlds, i was listing the sort of competitions that i expect him to compete in, and perhaps win some of them, not that i expect him to win all. Some might PR and Rvv to that list as well though. Oh and i didnt mention stage races of which he has already won one (this last year).
 
Mar 12, 2009
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maltiv said:
I remember reading an interview with him after Gent-Wevelgem, where the interviewer asked him something about riding on cobbles. EBH answered (from my memory): "People tell me that I'm good at riding cobbles. I don't know, I don't like it at all!"

He has said the same about time trials as well and in the past he has stayed away from bunch sprints also. I wouldn't put much weight on a comment like that. I think that no matter what he ends up doing, when he sees that he's good at it and it pays off for him, he will learn to like it.
 
May 7, 2009
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The Hitch said:
I think next year he needs to get the sprints under his belt. Milan san remo, and green jersey. Peak for those 2. I think both are within his reach. He is a better sprinter than Hushovd atm and a better all rounder as well. He does it right he can get the green.
Maybe he can get the worlds this year or next year by some fluke to.

After that, with the sprints in the bag, focus on the climbing. He will lose a lot of that speed and will probably not be able to compete bunch sprints anyonmore (though valverde somehow manages it) but will improve his climbing, stay up there, and get bonus seconds in stages where the heads of state finish together.

I mentioned Freire & Hushovd because I think he's physically too big to win a big race with a big uphill finish (Fleche, LBL), but I think he can become the best at sprints with a bump* before the end - (MSR, RVV, San Sebastian, maybe even Lombardy); and those with a medium sized hill at the finish (Amstel, Dell'Emilia).

Perhaps Freire wasn't the best comp, but I'm trying to think of someone with that blend of short climbing, strength and sprint - and I'm struggling without naming someone OTT
 
Jun 7, 2010
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Emilia finishes on a 2km climb of nearly 11% average. They also do the same climb 5(6?) times before.

San Sebastian would have been possible in the last incarnation of the route. Now, i'm not sure. Similarly Lombardy..
 
Jan 11, 2010
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roundabout said:
Emilia finishes on a 2km climb of nearly 11% average. They also do the same climb 5(6?) times before.

San Sebastian would have been possible in the last incarnation of the route. Now, i'm not sure. Similarly Lombardy..
I'll eat my shoe if EBH wins Emilia any time soon. Gesink said he really wanted to win that one because it was the hardest one day race he ever did, in terms of climbing.
 
May 7, 2009
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theyoungest said:
I'll eat my shoe if EBH wins Emilia any time soon. Gesink said he really wanted to win that one because it was the hardest one day race he ever did, in terms of climbing.

Maybe, I was thinking that if Gerrans could make it then EBH could -but now I've just realised that Gerrans won the Giro stage on that hill rather than dell'Emilia - I presume the Giro stage (2009) didn't have the laps beforehand?

I think Lombardy's a possibility, if he develops in that direction then it's possible - you don't have to be a pure climber to win that one.
 
Oct 29, 2009
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The Hitch said:
when i said msr, lbl, gts and worlds, i was listing the sort of competitions that i expect him to compete in, and perhaps win some of them, not that i expect him to win all. Some might PR and Rvv to that list as well though. Oh and i didnt mention stage races of which he has already won one (this last year).

It was more the Merckx comment within all the gushing that raised my eye brow.

Given the right circumstances EBH could win plenty, but today was one of those "right circumstances" days that he failed to take. Not the first one either. I don't expect a clean sweep from anyone, but EBH is now failing to brush up the sort of I events and opportunities I expect to be bagged, if people are indeed heading towards this very very bright future.

For what it is worth, instead of the names of proven high-fliers that are held up as mirrors around him, I think that his more recent track record sets him on a firmer course for the (still quality) riders just below the big names. Those that do very well, but too infrequently to strike fear in their opponents by simply showing up. Needing good legs on the day to win, rather than bad legs on the day to lose.

Pretty much what I said about Boom too. He came in and filled plenty of folk with great hopes, based on young shoots that blossomed early. But there is a point at which the occasional miss is more starting to look like a more sustained pattern of undershooting. EBH ought to land a bit higher, but I no longer see him jump the multitude of hurdles that are set as the bench marks by our greats.

He will get some great wins, no doubt, but I really haven't got him down as a potential triple wc winner, or a triple msr winner (over a 7 year time span). To name but one rider who by many is even't seen as one of greats. Yet some folk here talk as if it is only a matter of time before he will overshadow the palmares of the likes of Freire et al. He'll have to grab the vast majority of his opportunities. And make some more. He's starting not to do that.

Also not sure what winning an Eneco proves. Stage race caliber? Not in my book. But that's just me. I'm the type of sceptic who still is not sure what this race through the Lowlands actually is. A sponsored group day out with event-banners in the oddest of places, mostly, I guess.

It just happens to be through regions I know well, but if it wasn't for that, I'm not too sure what the real attraction is here.
 
May 7, 2009
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I think the value in naming riders as comparisons is outlining the type of rider he is/will be, rather than predicting palmares. My Freire comparison (with all it's flaws) was merely meant to say that he'd be good at the type of races Freire is good at - and not that he'll be a 3 time World Champion.

I also think people forget how young EBH is (23). In all likelihood he hasn't finished developing, and he'll probably develop more in one area than another - which will push him towards a certain style of race. That, and the race smarts he needs to learn should improve his chances of getting a major win at some point...but he's got plenty of time for that.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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theyoungest said:
I'll eat my shoe if EBH wins Emilia any time soon. Gesink said he really wanted to win that one because it was the hardest one day race he ever did, in terms of climbing.
Right.
Gesink aside, an Emilia like finishing climb will never suit Hagen.

It's the same reason why Gilbert can't win Fleche Wallone and why Gilbert hates the Mur de Huy.
And also the same reason why Bettini never won Fleche Wallone and hates the Mur de Huy.

They are typical power/punchers, when the steep part drags on too long or becomes ridicolous, they come up short.
 
Oct 23, 2009
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Dekker_Tifosi said:
Right.
Gesink aside, an Emilia like finishing climb will never suit Hagen.

It's the same reason why Gilbert can't win Fleche Wallone and why Gilbert hates the Mur de Huy.
And also the same reason why Bettini never won Fleche Wallone and hates the Mur de Huy.

They are typical power/punchers, when the steep part drags on too long or becomes ridicolous, they come up short.
I agree.

While on the topic, I've always wondered whether Edvald's inability to consume gels/sports drinks is affecting his performance negatively. He is only able to eat sandwiches and stuff like that during races, and drinks a sport drink based on fish, else his stomach goes wrong. Must be hard to get enough energy for long races without the aid of gels.

Anyway, moving back to tomorrows stage...My guess is: 1. Tony Martin 2. Richie Porte 3. EBH
 
Jun 14, 2010
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Francois the Postman said:
It was more the Merckx comment within all the gushing that raised my eye brow.

Given the right circumstances EBH could win plenty, but today was one of those "right circumstances" days that he failed to take. Not the first one either. I don't expect a clean sweep from anyone, but EBH is now failing to brush up the sort of I events and opportunities I expect to be bagged, if people are indeed heading towards this very very bright future.

For what it is worth, instead of the names of proven high-fliers that are held up as mirrors around him, I think that his more recent track record sets him on a firmer course for the (still quality) riders just below the big names. Those that do very well, but too infrequently to strike fear in their opponents by simply showing up. Needing good legs on the day to win, rather than bad legs on the day to lose.

Pretty much what I said about Boom too. He came in and filled plenty of folk with great hopes, based on young shoots that blossomed early. But there is a point at which the occasional miss is more starting to look like a more sustained pattern of undershooting. EBH ought to land a bit higher, but I no longer see him jump the multitude of hurdles that are set as the bench marks by our greats.

He will get some great wins, no doubt, but I really haven't got him down as a potential triple wc winner, or a triple msr winner (over a 7 year time span). To name but one rider who by many is even't seen as one of greats. Yet some folk here talk as if it is only a matter of time before he will overshadow the palmares of the likes of Freire et al. He'll have to grab the vast majority of his opportunities. And make some more. He's starting not to do that.

Also not sure what winning an Eneco proves. Stage race caliber? Not in my book. But that's just me. I'm the type of sceptic who still is not sure what this race through the Lowlands actually is. A sponsored group day out with event-banners in the oddest of places, mostly, I guess.

It just happens to be through regions I know well, but if it wasn't for that, I'm not too sure what the real attraction is here.

For many, including myself, a sprint victory is less prestigious than a hilly, mountain or even tt victory.

If ebh can improve with age on his tt (by that i mean no drastic improvements, just the improvements i expect with age) then he will be a force in those, competing for leaders jerseys at the begining of gts. Cancellara was seen as having just as good a tdf with his 2 tts and a yellow jersey for a week, as Cav with his 5 sprints.

If he can mature with age on the cobbles (by that i mean no drastic improvements, just the improvements i expect with age) then he can win Paris Roubaix maybe, even if just the once it still counts. Rvv is probably more suited to him still.

He was already touted as a favourite for Milan San Remo this year, and if he peaks for it next year i think he can do it.

Now its true that he might not achieve any of those. Some riders do better in their early 20s then later (eg Cunego). Perhaps this is as good as Eddie will get.
But if he does mature with age then the 4 above listed goals - MSR, PR, RVV and leaders jerseys at the begining of grand tours, are pretty realistic.
And perhaps, though i doubt it. he can even outdo that, and become more of a force in gts with bonus seconds available, and lbl, gl etc.

The comparison with Mercx was not my own, but one which others have placed on him. Of course he will never win all 5 monuments and all 3 gts. He wont come close. But people used to say he could be the next Mercx, now they say his career is over, im saying, hold your horses, he could be the next mercx yet, by which i mean the early enthusiasm others had for him could yet fullfill itself.
 
Jun 10, 2010
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I don't see Boasson Hagen climbing well enough to win LBL or GL, honestly. But regardless, I just think he needs more experience and possibly one big win that gives him confidence. And luck. Consider Rebellin. He was always getting good placings wherever he rode, but he never won. I think he won a stage in the Giro del Trentino in 1994 or 1995, and that was all. He had been one of the best Italian amateurs and everybody expected great things from him, and he was always close but he always missed. And then, he won a stage in the 1996 Giro, and he wore the maglia rosa, and he started winning regularly. He wasn't much better than before, he just got that little extra that comes with confidence and experience (and perhaps some other shady factors we're not allowed to discuss here, but my point stands even if I had to use a different example).
 

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