Evans V Valverde...

[auscyclefan94]

3) Valverde was better, by a margin than everyone other than maybe Contador that day.

A lot of people even on this forum said that evans should of jumped on valverde's wheel and not let him get such a gap. valverde was a bit better but by definetly not 2mins.

 

[Colm.Murphy]

Valv. (piti) will be soon getting fluthered on a Spanish beach, spending the next two years inventing new and incredible ways to bounce at GT's.

 

[karlboss]

A lot of people even on this forum said that evans should of jumped on valverde's wheel and not let him get such a gap. valverde was a bit better but by definetly not 2mins.

Yes Cadel should have jumped on, but he didn't. Then he should have ridden to conserve his position and not worried about the others, but he didn't. End of the day Valverde was better and by a margin. 2 minutes isn't 20 or 30 seconds. It takes quite a while to lose 2 minutes.
Having said if anyone wants to beat Contador this year this is the way to do it. The other favourites also let Valverde go relying on Evans to chase and in doing so watched their chance at victory disappear.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

How is the public perception of valverde in australia? Obviously, everybody on this forum knows about valv.piti. and all that, but is this common knowledge among the general public?

cycling - road racing - outside the tour isn't general knowledge to the public, I haven't a single friend of mine who cares for the sport.

 

[karlboss]

cycling - road racing - outside the tour isn't general knowledge to the public, I haven't a single friend of mine who cares for the sport.

+1 no one knows who he is, hard pressed for anyone to know who cadel evans is.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

1)valverde is no where near evans in the chrono.
2)Valverde will not beat evans every time
3) You say 1 stage proves he's a better climber. If evans reacted he definetly would of not lost much if any time. It was an inability to act.
4)Valverde shouldn't even be riding.

1) Vuelta ITT performances:

ASSEN
1 Cancellara 5'20"
9 Valverde +18"
12 Evans +19"

VALENCIA
1 Cancellara 36'41"
10 Evans +1'02"
13 Valverde +1'05"

TOLEDO
1 Millar 35'53"
3 Evans +9"
7 Valverde +36"

So the only time Evans beat Valverde with anything looking like a degree of comfort was when Valverde had only to cruise around managing his losses to guarantee victory in the race. Before then, Evans had taken a grand total of 2 seconds out of the supposedly inferior time triallist. He'd also lost a number of seconds to Samuel Sánchez.

2) On this, you're right. Evans beat Valverde at La Flèche Wallonne last year, of course.

3) Some more climbing stages for you to ponder over:
Sierra Nevada:
1 Moncoutié 5'09'22"
3 Valverde +1'16"
8 Evans +2'24"
- yes, this is the famous puncture stage, but Samuel Sánchez had already been dropped by the bunch before Evans' puncture, and finished 47 seconds ahead of the Australian. Evans also joined a decent sized bunch but was caught and passed by the Euskaltel leader; he was also nothing like 1'08" down when he joined that bunch.

La Pandera:
1 Cunego 4'04'23"
5 Valverde +3'22"
7 Evans +3'40"
This was after Valverde had cracked and came back to pass most of his contenders late on.

What these results show is that in reality, Valverde and Evans look like much of a muchness, with Evans being marginally better if at all at time trialling, and Valverde being marginally better if at all at climbing. Where the difference lies is that Valverde has a much better kick that allows him to open gaps more easily than Evans, and though both have significantly improved their tactical riding (which was a weakness for both of them before) it seems that Valverde is marginally more astute.

Of course, if we were to look purely at their palmarès, there's no questioning that Valverde is way ahead, unless you consider that the Worlds are more important than two monuments and a Grand Tour put together. And regardless of what Sherwen, Liggett, Harmon or Kirby might want us to believe, relentlessly pushing Evans down our throats as the guy we should support (probably so the translators don't have to do any work), Valverde is an infinitely more entertaining and exciting rider to watch.

4) you should know by now that what 'should' or 'ought to' be happening has little to no bearing on cycling. What matters is that Valverde is riding.

 

[Angliru]

A lot of people even on this forum said that evans should of jumped on valverde's wheel and not let him get such a gap. valverde was a bit better but by definetly not 2mins.

You yourself said he didn't respond because of his "inability" to do so. So the 2 minutes stands. If as you say he was able to respond I'm sure he wouldn't have gifted Valverde 2 minutes just to not drag Contador up the road.

 

[Angliru]

Libertine also if we're going to take Evans' 2 tour podiums then we also have to consider Valverde's podiums in the WC road races. It's only fair.

 

[karlboss]

libertine, your post is completely correct...if we only look at the vuelta last year.

 

[Ripper]

...

A flaw with picking one year of one GT is that it really depends on the course. Valverde is good at short TT's, those that are around 30 minutes or less. But that does not mean Evans is only marginally better. Evans is quite a bit better of a time trialist over longer distances ... but shorter TT's definitely reduces the difference.

And please, comparing end results of two riders when someone flats and tries to catch up and blows (ever started a climb after standing around for a couple of minutes?), and the other has a bad moment but is able to just pace and keep on going, really suggests you have never raced.

FWIW, I am not saying Evans would have won the Vuelta without the flat. But it sure would have made it interesting if he had not flatted (and had the worst wheel change ever witnessed, even in a Cat 4 race).

Further, and I have said this in another thread, they are both excellent riders and I would not say overrated. I would, however, say Cunego and Tommy D are overrated as GT winner threats

 

[theswordsman]

Valv. (piti) will be soon getting fluthered on a Spanish beach, spending the next two years inventing new and incredible ways to bounce at GT's.

It definitely won't be an Italian beach. The CAS has upheld the ban.

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/16-03-2010/valverde-ricorso-respinto-603324609859.shtml

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I used the Vuelta as the comparison since it's the only race with both mountains and ITTs in which they've both put in representative performances in the recent past. It would be unfair to judge Evans' performances from years ago against Valverde's, when both riders have changed immeasurably since. Nevertheless, taking the Vuelta, it is true that there are far too many variables - the flat, the route, the strength of Valverde's team in that race - to suggest it's a perfect comparison, but it's also the only race where the new, attacking Evans has met the new, sensible Valverde over an extended period of time.

It would have been interesting to see what would have happened had Evans not flatted, but Evans was already behind. Evans didn't attack on La Pandera or at any point in the race after Xorret del Catí, when he was wearing the maillot oro. There's a good chance Evans would still have lost out to Sánchez even if he had bested Valverde without the flat.

Sometimes I wonder if Evans is actually more comfortable being in that kind of situation because he feels better having something to blame (eg puncturing at an inopportune moment, awkward dealings with service vehicle) than having to consider that somebody was better than him.

 

[auscyclefan94]

1) Vuelta ITT performances:

ASSEN
1 Cancellara 5'20"
9 Valverde +18"
12 Evans +19"

VALENCIA
1 Cancellara 36'41"
10 Evans +1'02"
13 Valverde +1'05"

TOLEDO
1 Millar 35'53"
3 Evans +9"
7 Valverde +36"

So the only time Evans beat Valverde with anything looking like a degree of comfort was when Valverde had only to cruise around managing his losses to guarantee victory in the race. Before then, Evans had taken a grand total of 2 seconds out of the supposedly inferior time triallist. He'd also lost a number of seconds to Samuel Sánchez.

2) On this, you're right. Evans beat Valverde at La Flèche Wallonne last year, of course.

3) Some more climbing stages for you to ponder over:
Sierra Nevada:
1 Moncoutié 5'09'22"
3 Valverde +1'16"
8 Evans +2'24"
- yes, this is the famous puncture stage, but Samuel Sánchez had already been dropped by the bunch before Evans' puncture, and finished 47 seconds ahead of the Australian. Evans also joined a decent sized bunch but was caught and passed by the Euskaltel leader; he was also nothing like 1'08" down when he joined that bunch.

La Pandera:
1 Cunego 4'04'23"
5 Valverde +3'22"
7 Evans +3'40"
This was after Valverde had cracked and came back to pass most of his contenders late on.

What these results show is that in reality, Valverde and Evans look like much of a muchness, with Evans being marginally better if at all at time trialling, and Valverde being marginally better if at all at climbing. Where the difference lies is that Valverde has a much better kick that allows him to open gaps more easily than Evans, and though both have significantly improved their tactical riding (which was a weakness for both of them before) it seems that Valverde is marginally more astute.

Of course, if we were to look purely at their palmarès, there's no questioning that Valverde is way ahead, unless you consider that the Worlds are more important than two monuments and a Grand Tour put together. And regardless of what Sherwen, Liggett, Harmon or Kirby might want us to believe, relentlessly pushing Evans down our throats as the guy we should support (probably so the translators don't have to do any work), Valverde is an infinitely more entertaining and exciting rider to watch.

4) you should know by now that what 'should' or 'ought to' be happening has little to no bearing on cycling. What matters is that Valverde is riding.

on the vuelta puncture, it's not the point that he couldn't get up to sanchez. the point is that in a group he would of not lost time.

in the vuelta, evans had just come off the tour and a heavy race program. the vuelta was valverde's first GT of the year. you can make those comparison's all you like but I can grab 5 other grand tours and represent that stat an other way.

I would also say that the short tt in assen and toledo which was an "up and down" turning cicuit was very much suited to valverde.

What a joke!

 

[tjwracer]

Valverde is done for two years so who cares we all know cadel is better and would have won the vuelta if not for the flat but..... coulda woulda shoulda

 

[tgsgirl]

What a joke!

I haven't examined all the results, but a quick CQ head-to-head showdown produces these results:

Time Trials:
ESP VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro 14 - 13 AUS EVANS Cadel

 

[M Sport]

Valverde is done for two years so who cares ...

Sums it all up really. No point trying to make objective comparisons against a drug cheat.

 

[karlboss]

I haven't examined all the results, but a quick CQ head-to-head showdown produces these results:

Time Trials:
ESP VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro 14 - 13 AUS EVANS Cadel

Without TTT 12:12
Fairly interesting, Valverde has only once beaten Cadel out of spain in a TT that was not a prologue.

Spain 7:1 Valverde
Prologues 5:2 Valverde
Tour de france 0:5 Evans take out TTT and prologues

He's only taking a 2 year rest from italy, if that is the only result that stands he's served time on that ban and will be back soon enough. If it gets extended worldwide...I have no idea what will happen.

 

[the big ring]

sums it all up really. No point trying to make objective comparisons against a drug cheat.

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

 

[Kender]

Well considering Valverde is a drug cheat this comparison should be done in the clinic

 

[blaxland]

Well considering Valverde is a drug cheat this comparison should be done in the clinic

+1 agree...this should be in the clinic..............along with all other Valverde related topics.............doping=cheating........

 

[Ferminal]

I haven't examined all the results, but a quick CQ head-to-head showdown produces these results:

Time Trials:
ESP VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro 14 - 13 AUS EVANS Cadel

Valverde bashes him in a prologue.

I think on a 40km+ course, Evans takes minimum 30s out of Valverde. But over the last couple of years one has improved their TT and one has stayed the same (or got worse).

 

[Krap Police]

They're both krappers, and one of themz krapping big time.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I haven't examined all the results, but a quick CQ head-to-head showdown produces these results:

Time Trials:
ESP VALVERDE BELMONTE Alejandro 14 - 13 AUS EVANS Cadel

When I get some time i will do a full extensive head to head on them.

 

[Galic Ho]

When I get some time i will do a full extensive head to head on them.

Name me a Spaniard who cannot beat Evans head to head. The top 4 all can and have the past three seasons. Heck, LLS and Rodriguez would give him a run for his money on a week long event.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Name me a Spaniard who cannot beat Evans head to head. The top 4 all can and have the past three seasons. Heck, LLS and Rodriguez would give him a run for his money on a week long event.

Sorry, meant in ITT's.