Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

On Amstel Gold i would say help Wout van Aert to take the win. Some Belgians are still angry regarding worlds 2020. But i doubt Roglič could help van Aert more on that race.

P.S. And win the other two.

 

[Blanco]

Again, why the hell would he help Van Aert at the Worlds? His obligation was to obtain best possible result for his country.

 

[tobydawq]

Again, why the hell would he help Van Aert at the Worlds? His obligation was to obtain best possible result for his country.

Yes, but Van Aert had just spent three weeks towing him around France. I can see this from both viewpoints. And especially because Roglic ended last in the group, anyway.

 

[Bonimenier]

I'm still pretty sure Roglic would have helped (not that he had to) if he had anything left in the legs. He was just dead at the end.

 

[Blanco]

Yes, but Van Aert had just spent three weeks towing him around France. I can see this from both viewpoints. And especially because Roglic ended last in the group, anyway.

But he didn't know in advance on which position he will end up. At Liege it also seemed that he's going to end up last, but.., strange things happens.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I guess best to first see in what form Wout van Aert currently is. Brabantse Pijl should tell.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yes, but Van Aert had just spent three weeks towing him around France. I can see this from both viewpoints. And especially because Roglic ended last in the group, anyway.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to this viewpoint, but mostly think that's not an apples-to-apples comparison. In the Tour, Van Aert was being paid by his team to help Roglic, and he also got to go for his own glory a few times. In the Worlds, Roglic had been selected by his country to represent them. Two separate things, IMO.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to this viewpoint, but mostly think that's not an apples-to-apples comparison. In the Tour, Van Aert was being paid by his team to help Roglic, and he also got to go for his own glory a few times. In the Worlds, Roglic had been selected by his country to represent them. Two separate things, IMO.

Yes, I know, and usually I would hate for trade team interests to interfere in WCRR or OGRR (for example, I might have thrown a bit up in my mouth from watching Eisel having Cavendish in his pocket in London 2012).

But this is an extremely special case, I would say. Wout had been MVP (lol, that wasn't even on purpose) throughout the entire Tour for Roglic, sacrificing his own chances on most stages (but of course still won a couple, he is not too shabby). He had literally been the most talked about domestique the entire race, and then a week later they are there again, and he could have become World Champion if Roglic had been willing and able to pull back Alaphilippe.

But yeah, as I said, I can see it from both viewpoints. I don't think I would have had a feeling of it being very wrong if Roglic had sacrificed himself. Maybe the time frame also plays a role here because the Tour was in such fresh memory.

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic didn't pull less than the other guys and got dead last in that sprint. Guy was completely spent anyway.

Wtf can you expect from him lol. To get dropped before the finish?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I guess expect the unexpected!

 

[Ilmaestro99]

Roglic will win Amstel and Liege if they are hard and selective

 

[johnymax]

Roglic didn't pull less than the other guys and got dead last in that sprint. Guy was completely spent anyway.

Wtf can you expect from him lol. To get dropped before the finish?

This. Belgians made an analysis about how long was everybody pulling out of the 5 riders in the chasing group. If I remember correctly Roglic pulled for roughly 20% of the time, so one fifth. I rate his sprinting ability close to that of Hirschi who got 3rd (2nd in the group of five). Rogla was nowhere close. He couldn't even sprint. He was outsprinted by Fuglsang, who is hardly known for having a good sprint.

Not to mention Slovenia as a team had a plan. They sent the TdF champion out there on the attack alone (they wanted someone to go with him of course) 3 laps to go for dozens of kilometers to make the race hard exactly against the team Wout was on, lol. Pogačar was working his guts off for what? To see his teammate then help a rider from another team? That would be unexcusable. Never seen anything like that and I don't understand how could some people be so blind at the time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Still, Roglič and van Aert going both to Amstel Gold, likely both in great shape. It does raise the question, who will pull first, if needed.

We'll see.

 

[johnymax]

Still, Roglič and van Aert going both to Amstel Gold, likely both in great shape. It does raise the question, who will pull first, if needed.

We'll see.

If they are both there in the finale and the situation requires one to pull for the other, it's an easy decision. Primoz should pull for van Aert's sprint. But in my opinion they should try to make the race hard beforehand with those two and Vingegaard.

 

[johnymax]

Roglic will win Amstel and Liege if they are hard and selective

I was more thinking Fleche OR Liege. With Amstel is a bit like the conversation I was reading in Valverde's thread. Top 10 is realistic. A lot of things have to go right for him to win it and do not forget it'll be his first time doing the race. For FW and LBL I see him as a top 3 favourite for both.

 

[Red Rick]

This. Belgians made an analysis about how long was everybody pulling out of the 5 riders in the chasing group. If I remember correctly Roglic pulled for roughly 20% of the time, so one fifth. I rate his sprinting ability close to that of Hirschi who got 3rd (2nd in the group of five). Rogla was nowhere close. He couldn't even sprint. He was outsprinted by Fuglsang, who is hardly known for having a good sprint.

Not to mention Slovenia as a team had a plan. They sent the TdF champion out there on the attack alone (they wanted someone to go with him of course) 3 laps to go for dozens of kilometers to make the race hard exactly against the team Wout was on, lol. Pogačar was working his guts off for what? To see his teammate then help a rider from another team? That would be unexcusable. Never seen anything like that and I don't understand how could some people be so blind at the time.

They weren't blind. They just deny how cycling works to fit their insane narrative. With Belgians I can accept a degree of nationalism, but some of them went compeltely insane and some of them did it again this Milano Sanremo

 

[bNator]

Hi everyone - this is my very first post here. I decided to try to contribute a bit to the discussion since the topic of Roglič having owed WvA some help to make up for TdF towing is something I had a rather strong position from the start.

So let's assume Roglič does have legs to help WvA and actually helps him. He tows him to the finish line and does a leadout for his sprint. Now imagine Slovenian national team and Slovenian cycling fans. His team worked the whole day to put Roglič in a position where he has chances to score a podium result. Now Roglič goes on and blows these chances to help WvA and thus secure a stronger position in his own TJV team (WvA owes him some favors now). That's not just screwing his national team and Slovenian cycling fans - that's actually borderline coruption. Using resources that do not belong to him (national team) to get personal benefit (stronger position in TJV team).

Me being a Slovenian fan and also a big supporter of WvA, I was very worried that Roglič was going to help WvA - because that would rightfully cause a shitstorm in Slovenian media. And it was a big relief for me when I saw that Roglič is way to big of a sportsman to do something like that. And frankly, I was really disappointed in Belgian media at that time for even suggesting Roglič should have helped WvA. Ok - I understand a casual fan gets such an impression, but professional pundits should know better than that.

I'm sure that Roglič will ride for WvA when/if an occasion requires and he will put his 100% effort into that as well, but never at the expense of his national team.

 

[Blanco]

Hi everyone - this is my very first post here. I decided to try to contribute a bit to the discussion since the topic of Roglič having owed WvA some help to make up for TdF towing is something I had a rather strong position from the start.

So let's assume Roglič does have legs to help WvA and actually helps him. He tows him to the finish line and does a leadout for his sprint. Now imagine Slovenian national team and Slovenian cycling fans. His team worked the whole day to put Roglič in a position where he has chances to score a podium result. Now Roglič goes on and blows these chances to help WvA and thus secure a stronger position in his own TJV team (WvA owes him some favors now). That's not just screwing his national team and Slovenian cycling fans - that's actually borderline coruption. Using resources that do not belong to him (national team) to get personal benefit (stronger position in TJV team).

Me being a Slovenian fan and also a big supporter of WvA, I was very worried that Roglič was going to help WvA - because that would rightfully cause a shitstorm in Slovenian media. And it was a big relief for me when I saw that Roglič is way to big of a sportsman to do something like that. And frankly, I was really disappointed in Belgian media at that time for even suggesting Roglič should have helped WvA. Ok - I understand a casual fan gets such an impression, but professional pundits should know better than that.

I'm sure that Roglič will ride for WvA when/if an occasion requires and he will put his 100% effort into that as well, but never at the expense of his national team.

This is a good first post.

 

[tobydawq]

Hi everyone - this is my very first post here. I decided to try to contribute a bit to the discussion since the topic of Roglič having owed WvA some help to make up for TdF towing is something I had a rather strong position from the start.

So let's assume Roglič does have legs to help WvA and actually helps him. He tows him to the finish line and does a leadout for his sprint. Now imagine Slovenian national team and Slovenian cycling fans. His team worked the whole day to put Roglič in a position where he has chances to score a podium result. Now Roglič goes on and blows these chances to help WvA and thus secure a stronger position in his own TJV team (WvA owes him some favors now). That's not just screwing his national team and Slovenian cycling fans - that's actually borderline coruption. Using resources that do not belong to him (national team) to get personal benefit (stronger position in TJV team).

Me being a Slovenian fan and also a big supporter of WvA, I was very worried that Roglič was going to help WvA - because that would rightfully cause a shitstorm in Slovenian media. And it was a big relief for me when I saw that Roglič is way to big of a sportsman to do something like that. And frankly, I was really disappointed in Belgian media at that time for even suggesting Roglič should have helped WvA. Ok - I understand a casual fan gets such an impression, but professional pundits should know better than that.

I'm sure that Roglič will ride for WvA when/if an occasion requires and he will put his 100% effort into that as well, but never at the expense of his national team.

If Roglic had the strength to reel in Alaphilippe and do a leadout, sure, then he should have ridden for himself.

So yeah, maybe the whole discussion is absurd. The only way for it to be okay for Roglic to help Van Aert would have been if he didn't have the strength to compete for the win, but in that case he wouldn't have been able to help much, either.

 

[Carols]

Why Anyone would think a rider competing for their Country should ride for another countries rider, because he is a trade teammate, is beyond my comprehension. In certain races guys ride for their Country not their trade team! Worlds and Olympics are prime examples.

 

[Gargamel35]

Why Anyone would think a rider competing for their Country should ride for another countries rider, because he is a trade teammate, is beyond my comprehension. In certain races guys ride for their Country not their trade team! Worlds and Olympics are prime examples.

Man imagine footballers helping each other on World championships. Argentina vs. Brazil, where 5 from Brazil team help Argentina and 2 from Argentina help Brazil, because guys are teammates in the same club. What an awesome game that would be.

 

[Carols]

Man imagine footballers helping each other on World championships. Argentina vs. Brazil, where 5 from Brazil team help Argentina and 2 from Argentina help Brazil, because guys are teammates in the same club. What an awesome game that would be.

And that has what to do with Primoz Roglic?

 

[SafeBet]

And that has what to do with Primoz Roglic?

He was also a football payer before being a ski jumper.
BTW did you know he was a ski jumper?

 

[Bonimenier]

Why Anyone would think a rider competing for their Country should ride for another countries rider, because he is a trade teammate, is beyond my comprehension. In certain races guys ride for their Country not their trade team! Worlds and Olympics are prime examples.

They shouldn't, but if you can choose between a non-teammate from another country or a teammate from another country as winner, the choice is easily made.

 

[Gargamel35]

They shouldn't, but if you can choose between a non-teammate from another country or a teammate from another country as winner, the choice is easily made.

No, you choose yourself, because you compete for your OWN country.