Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[RedheadDane]

What do you mean Roglič isn’t old?

He's only 31.

 

[bNator]

He's only 31.

Exactly. No - I’m just messing with you Noticed that age seems to be something you are rather sensitive about.

 

[RedheadDane]

Exactly. No - I’m just messing with you Noticed that age seems to be something you are rather sensitive about.

Toby got into his head that 30 is old. Dunno where he got that idea from...

 

[Lequack]

Really tough stage today and really great performance from Primoz

 

[Netserk]

Special hot weather gloves?

 

[Sciatic]

Special hot weather gloves?

It's the Incredible Hulk -Jr. bursting out of his clothes!

 

[Carols]

Special hot weather gloves?

He cut his Olympic Rings gloves for extra heat dissipation

 

[Oldermanish]

Toby got into his head that 30 is old. Dunno where he got that idea from...

He's also a late comer to the sport. He doesn't have years of grinding and pointless miles getting to this point in his career and so is relatively young. A counter to that would possibly be Pogacar who, at 22 has been racing successfully since he was 13 by all accounts. He's now the highest paid rider and very motivated. He also hasn't had a downturn or some challenging injuries to overcome. I like Primoz's odds of being a dominant force for 5 more years as much as Tadej's.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Toby got into his head that 30 is old. Dunno where he got that idea from...

”Never trust anyone over 30!”
people knew this already in the 60s, man

 

[RedheadDane]

”Never trust anyone over 30!”
people knew this already in the 60s, man

Well, I trust me!

 

[Lequack]

Back at the hotel they were in good spirits

 

[Red Rick]

Meanwhle they need to stop trying to use Kuss as a satellite on the final climb, he's not good enough for that. Kruijswijk seems back to good form at last.

I wonder if Jumbo will try to control stage 11. Perfect murito finish for Roglic. Stage is only 130km long.

 

[roundabout]

they can try, but I imagine they will be up against the half of the baroudeurs who did not make the break on stage 10

 

[cen]

The way he closed that first Yates/MAL attack was insane.

 

[Rackham]

Back at the hotel they were in good spirits

It was Sam Oomen's birthday on August 15th, so I assume that's when that picture was taken (even though it was posted yesterday).

As for the stage, I feel that was a really, really good day & a job well done. Ineos in particular practically eliminated the number one GC threat (Bernal) due to their own constant accelerations (Yates) to hurt Roglic.

I still think Bernal is the main challenger (I'd be amazed if Mas takes the fight to Roglic on this level for 3 weeks) & Bernal is the only rival in this race who I believe can really turn up the watts machine & bring the fight to Roglic on a massive high altitude climb in week 3.

So that 1 minute 52 seconds lead looks like a really good return after one week. Yesterday was a very tricky tactical situation: Roglic had to choose the right wheel to follow & not burn his matches chasing everyone down. Now the maths are way easier: stick to Mas like glue & then use the Ineos boys as launchpads if necessary (i.e. Ineos will now be attacking even harder, i.e. attacks which Movistar have to cover as well).

We've seen it all before in GT's: the teams behind the guys sitting second/third on the podium have a tendency to help the race leader because their attacks cause problems for his closest rivals before him.

 

[Red Rick]

It was Sam Oomen's birthday on August 15th, so I assume that's when that picture was taken (even though it was posted yesterday).

As for the stage, I feel that was a really, really good day & a job well done. Ineos in particular practically eliminated the number one GC threat (Bernal) due to their own constant accelerations (Yates) to hurt Roglic.

I still think Bernal is the main challenger (I'd be amazed if Mas takes the fight to Roglic on this level for 3 weeks) & Bernal is the only rival in this race who I believe can really turn up the watts machine & bring the fight to Roglic on a massive high altitude climb in week 3.

So that 1 minute 52 seconds lead looks like a really good return after one week. Yesterday was a very tricky tactical situation: Roglic had to choose the right wheel to follow & not burn his matches chasing everyone down. Now the maths are way easier: stick to Mas like glue & then use the Ineos boys as launchpads if necessary (i.e. Ineos will now be attacking even harder, i.e. attacks which Movistar have to cover as well).

We've seen it all before in GT's: the teams behind the guys sitting second/third on the podium have a tendency to help the race leader because their attacks cause problems for his closest rivals before him.

There are no high altitude climbs anymore. Venta Luisa yesterday was the highest climb of the Vuelta. The monster stages in Asturias are very low altitude even if Gamoniteiru goes up to 1700m, it starts at like 300m.

But Bernals problem isn't about altitude. He's just not good enough so far, and even if he improves he has to make up 2 minutes + the time he'll lose in the ITT.

 

[tobydawq]

Toby got into his head that 30 is old. Dunno where he got that idea from...

He's also a late comer to the sport.

I wouldn't say that. I was already watching the Tour at the age of 3. That's definitely young.

 

[Rackham]

There are no high altitude climbs anymore. Venta Luisa yesterday was the highest climb of the Vuelta. The monster stages in Asturias are very low altitude even if Gamoniteiru goes up to 1700m, it starts at like 300m.

But Bernals problem isn't about altitude. He's just not good enough so far, and even if he improves he has to make up 2 minutes + the time he'll lose in the ITT.

You're right. I thought week 3's climbs were higher.

Now Bernal's situation looks even better for Roglic. I mean if anyone had said "Roglic will be leading GC with 28 seconds on Mas whilst the others will all be over a minute behind & Bernal will be 1 minute 52 seconds back at the end of the first week" before the race, I'm sure JV would have signed up for that immediately.

 

[gregrowlerson]

Okay, so this is about Roglic.

Red Rick touched on this in the stage thread yesterday, that Roglic has Rodriguez like acceleration, but unlike the Spaniard he can get away with riding more defensively because of his strong time trialling, and that Pogacar (who can do a long distance solo mountain attack like Romme/Columbierre) is the only one who can match and beat Roglic overall.

My question is this: Why can't Roglic attack from 10 kms out and sustain it? Being a great time trialer (which he obviously is) would suggest that he has the perfect skill set for it (unlike Rodriguez who was woeful in the time trial). I'm truly miffed about this.

P.S. Don't tell me it's because he's old

 

[Red Rick]

Okay, so this is about Roglic.

Red Rick touched on this in the stage thread yesterday, that Roglic has Rodriguez like acceleration, but unlike the Spaniard he can get away with riding more defensively because of his strong time trialling, and that Pogacar (who can do a long distance solo mountain attack like Romme/Columbierre) is the only one who can match and beat Roglic overall.

My question is this: Why can't Roglic attack from 10 kms out and sustain it? Being a great time trialer (which he obviously is) would suggest that he has the perfect skill set for it (unlike Rodriguez who was woeful in the time trial). I'm truly miffed about this.

P.S. Don't tell me it's because he's old

Spoiler: Tl;dr he's old

Well sometimes he could have but doesn't and that's when he's clearly the best climber in the race. Take for example the MTF in Tour de l'Ain or Dauphine last year I think he could have. Moncalvillo last year as well.

Yesterday, he and Mas are clearly better than the rest, so without Mas he probably either drops the MAL group or he chills on that group then stomps them at the end.

But the Roglic vs Rodriguez thing here has almost nothing to do with ITT ability. Rodriguez could sustain very good W/kg on a road bike when going uphill. I think Purito was just pretty unflexible for a bike rider which disallowed him from doing good watts in a TT position.

Another big difference between ITT ability and road stages is that in ITTs you start completely fresh without several thousand Kcal of work done, and this will affect a climbing performance even if you haven't gone above threshold at all. Now for Roglic this likely only really means he needs to rely on aerobic ability where he's still world class but not on let's say a higher energy reserve he can burn through once in a race.

You see the latter have an effect also in guys like Evenepoel IMO, who's the opposite in this regard. He's a great ITTer, but I would also argue he's clearly a stronger rouleur than ITTer.

Lastly, I think Roglic pure endurance/in race recovery isn't as good as some other riders. We've seen him bonk mightily a time or two in Il Lombardia. In 2018 he initiated the winning attack on the Muro di Sormano, where he also dropped Bernal uphill on the Muro, and then 30 minutes later when they hit Civiglio he bonked the hardest of them all. And this is an area where Purito didn't struggle at all. He was explosive as hell but his W/kg didn't really suffer that much from longer races.

But I think tactically it's quite simple that for a lot of climbers it's easier to gauge their legs. If they can accelerate then it might fine for them to try, whereas Roglic is so explosive he can have that burst in his pocket even when he's struggling so he just the fact that he can doesn't mean he can stay away.

 

[will-10]

Okay, so this is about Roglic.

Red Rick touched on this in the stage thread yesterday, that Roglic has Rodriguez like acceleration, but unlike the Spaniard he can get away with riding more defensively because of his strong time trialling, and that Pogacar (who can do a long distance solo mountain attack like Romme/Columbierre) is the only one who can match and beat Roglic overall.

My question is this: Why can't Roglic attack from 10 kms out and sustain it? Being a great time trialer (which he obviously is) would suggest that he has the perfect skill set for it (unlike Rodriguez who was woeful in the time trial). I'm truly miffed about this.

P.S. Don't tell me it's because he's old

Looking at his level, he probably can, just doesn't need to. And it's riskier.
Rightly or wrongly, he can afford to be the most conservative.

 

[bNator]

Roglič almost never attacks solo from far out. I can only remember 2 occasions - TDF 2017 Galibier stage and this years Paris-Nice (it wasn't really long range it it was what, 3 kms) where he succeded and then a number of times where he tried and didn't make it (2018 TFD stage 19, 2017 Lombardia, ...).

It's a bit weird to me too, but long range attacks are just not his cup of tea. That desn't mean, however, that he couldn't sustain a tempo that is required for a long range attack while following someone. Normally, you would expect this sort of characteristic from someone who sucks at pacing himself and is a bad time trialist, but this is clearly not the case for Roglič.

This is really puzzling...

 

[cen]

He did go solo in Basque and kept Pog at bay tho. But it was an opportunistic solo, not planned.

 

[bajbar]

I would say he is often afraid that he would run out of energy before the end. He loves his 2-3 minute full out attacks before the finish, because he knows what he can sustain. But going alone for a 6-7 km attack is different. When he is following someone he does not have a choice. But he does not to want to go too far into the red by himself too far from the finish.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's certainly riskier to attack 10 kms out as opposed to 1 km, but if you are feeling good, and are superior to your opponents, why not try to gain more time. Look at Armstrong (multiple times), Contador (Verbier, Etna), Froome (PSM); all could have settled for attacking very late and gained just a little time, but all chose to gain additional time by attacking from further out (and all could have relied on their ITT supremacy over most or all of their opposition if they wanted to). Pogacar was already well ahead after the first ITT in this years Tour and still chose to take a huge risk.

Well, of course maybe this could also be discussed elsewhere...