Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

As this is national event i guess it helps a bit if your fellow countrymen wins a medal. If there is no national appeal to it then for sure you likely wish somebody you are a fan of to win. If Pogačar would win it then it would be rather sweet to take the Tour title from WC RR champion and defending Tour champion. Wouldn't it? If van Aert wins it then yes JV will have a WC RR champion and i can cope with that just fine. If Mohorič takes it then he will get a team next year, working for him on some races that suit him. If Roglič wins it then it would just be epic all around for me. And i am sure that for some other people too.

But all in all if Roglič gets a mere medal that is still epic in my book.

 

[Rackham]

As this is national event i guess it helps a bit if your fellow countrymen wins a medal. If there is no national appeal to it then for sure you likely wish somebody you are a fan of to win. If Pogačar would win it then it would be rather sweet to take the Tour title from WC RR champion and defending Tour champion. Wouldn't it?

Ouch.

Not really. In sporting terms Pogacar is the number one rival & the guy who usually stands between Rogla & his most coveted prize (aka the Tour).

So him winning the world championship after the Tour (& Liège), then cruising around the 2022 season with the rainbow jersey... I'll nope out of that scenario.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Do you believe people would think that highly of Pogačar if he hadn't beat Roglič at TDF 2020? That is lets say he would still win it but not against Roglič.

I somehow doubt that.

 

[Rackham]

I think Pogacar had lots of stars aligned at the right time in 2020 & 2021.

In 2020 he was under the radar (he was anonymous in the races before the Tour), he was young (the public digs "young" sports stars), Roglic crashed in the Dauphiné & had a less than ideal preparation (& was also the one with the 'suspicions' in the media). The general public also seemed to hate Jumbo's tactics & loads of people had a good laugh at Roglic when he got atomized at the Planche des Belles Filles.

And then this year the narrative seemed to be more about "bike handling" (again, not so subtle digs at Roglic) whilst Pogacar's insane performance in the Alps was either handwaved as a result born out of his rivals crashing out or used as "evidence" of his superiority over Roglic.

So if possible I'd rather Pogacar didn't also get the luxury of wearing the rainbow jersey. Because Roglic is going to go & aim to beat him anyway next season, but until then... I'd find the "Pogacar is the world champion!" stuff too much on top of everything else.

The only other (weirder) aspect which can play a role in terms of narrative is one of the "myths" of the rainbow jersey is actually an urban legend, i.e. many people claim there's a "world champion curse". So if that were true, I wouldn't be against Pogacar wearing it next year in the Tour.

 

[Bonimenier]

Do you believe people would think that highly of Pogačar if he hadn't beat Roglič at TDF 2020? That is lets say he would still win it but not against Roglič.

I somehow doubt that.

Yeah, they would.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Rackham

Roglič should IMHO cope just fine. Regardless of the jersey Pogačar wears on some race. Like golden helmet won't help Roglič in any future ITT
if he won't push the needed wattage. Helmets and jerseys are reminiscence of the past achievements. On an actual race you need to rely on other things. But you somehow assume Pogačar can win WC RR or has a better chance than Roglič. I am not all that sure about that. Their chance is likely somewhat the same. Hence if you feel Pogačar has a chance on this race then for sure Roglič has it too.

@Bonimenier

I sincerely doubt we would still be talking all that much about TDF 2020 in 2021 if Pogačar would not beat Roglič. Likely somewhere in the range of Bernal getting his tour or slightly above that. And i can imagine people will still mention TDF 2020 after 20 or 40 years will pass. Not all that sure about TDF 2021. To be in the same league in this regard. But i guess no real need to put much effort in guessing as time will tell.

 

[Bonimenier]

@Rackham

Roglič should IMHO cope just fine. Regardless of the jersey Pogačar wears on some race. Like golden helmet won't help Roglič in any future ITT
if he won't push the needed wattage. Helmets and jerseys are reminiscence of the past achievements. On an actual race you need to rely on other things. But you somehow assume Pogačar can win WC RR or has a better chance than Roglič. I am not all that sure about that. Their chance is likely somewhat the same. Hence if you feel Pogačar has a chance on this race then for sure Roglič has it too.

@Bonimenier

I sincerely doubt we would still be talking all that much about TDF 2020 in 2021 if Pogačar would not beat Roglič. Likely somewhere in the range of Bernal getting his tour or slightly above that. And i can imagine people will still mention TDF 2020 after 20 or 40 years will pass. Not all that sure about TDF 2021. To be in the same league in this regard. But i guess no real need to put much effort in guessing as time will tell.

Of course the Tour of 2020 will be remembered as it is special how it got turned around on the penultimate stage in a TT. I didn't argue that. That's also not what you were saying in your original post.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Bonimenier

OK therefore you agree it will be remembered and it was special. Likely more than lets say Bernal beating Evenepoel on Giro 2021. Pogačar winning Tour 2021. More then Bernal winning his first Tour ...

Hence the thing that i was actually saying in my original point stands. Roglič was the key ingredient and without Roglič the win would count much less.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Without Roglič then Pogačar would beat Porte.

P.S. No offence to Porte but likely not something we would talk about for the next 20 or 40 years.

 

[johnymax]

I think it's a wise decision to skip the TT and ride only the Road race. He already has a WC TT medal and he probably thinks winning gold against van Aert, Ganna, Küng, Remco, Dennis...is almost mission impossible. Maybe if the stars align he could get bronze, but he already has silver so a bronze medal wouldn't add much to his palmares.

On the other hand he doesn't have a medal from the RR yet. I know it's a long shot to get one in Flanders but with a group of such strong teammates and with aggressive tactics, you never know. At worst it will be a good training for Lombardia (at worst he crashes of course, but that can happen anywhere). I know it's not the same type of race, but it's still 250+km so it should definitely help to sharpen up his form.

 

[BlueRoads]

@Bonimenier

OK therefore you agree it will be remembered and it was special. Likely more than lets say Bernal beating Evenepoel on Giro 2021. Pogačar winning Tour 2021. More then Bernal winning his first Tour ...

Hence the thing that i was actually saying in my original point stands. Roglič was the key ingredient and without Roglič the win would count much less.

"Oh, you said (a+b)=c? Hence you agree with me that a=c."

 

[Rackham]

@Rackham

Roglič should IMHO cope just fine. Regardless of the jersey Pogačar wears on some race. Like golden helmet won't help Roglič in any future ITT
if he won't push the needed wattage. Helmets and jerseys are reminiscence of the past achievements. On an actual race you need to rely on other things. But you somehow assume Pogačar can win WC RR or has a better chance than Roglič. I am not all that sure about that. Their chance is likely somewhat the same. Hence if you feel Pogačar has a chance on this race then for sure Roglič has it too..

No, I don't think Pogacar has a better chance. I don't even think Pogacar is a better rider.

I already said Pogacar's stars aligned at the right moment over the past year (it's one year since he won the Tour de France in 2020). Roglic was injured before the Tour (even Dumoulin said his numbers were bad in the days before the race started) & this year he got pushed off his bike. All things being equal, I'd always believe Roglic has the slight edge over Pogacar. And I just don't want Pogacar to become world champion, that is all.

No offense to Pogacar or his fans, I just don't like him much at all.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@BlueRoads

Are you arguing it makes no real difference beating Roglič or Porte on a GT race? Oh well.

@Rackham

Fair point.

@johnymax

I agree it makes sense for Roglič to skip ITT, leave the spot to Tratnik, and focus on RR.

 

[BlueRoads]

@BlueRoads

Are you arguing it makes no real difference beating Roglič or Porte on a GT race? Oh well.

@Rackham

Fair point.

@johnymax

I agree it makes sense for Roglič to skip ITT, leave the spot to Tratnik, and focus on RR.

I'm arguing you are completely twisting people's words and then you say "see, basically you agree with me". A really weird way of having a conversation, or, put differently, trolling.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I will instead argue you and @Bonimenier did exactly that. That is i made a claim in the lines of Pogačar bating Roglič or Pogačar beating Porte. There is a huge difference in perception of the win.

Then you two came and instead of arguing otherwise made some cryptic one liners claiming i supposedly said something you don't agree with. Not explaining what exactly it is i supposedly said. Not arguing against the claim i made.

Hence don't blame me for doing your part. If you want to argue. Then argue with counter claims. If you just want to claim what other people said and that is not what other people said be prepared to be stand corrected.

 

[BlueRoads]

I will instead argue you and @Bonimenier did exactly that. That is i made a claim in the lines of Pogačar bating Roglič or Pogačar beating Porte. There is a huge difference in perception of the win.

Then you two came and instead of arguing otherwise made some cryptic one liners claiming i supposedly said something you don't agree with. Not explaining what exactly it is i supposedly said. Not arguing against the claim i made.

Hence don't blame me for doing your part. If you want to argue. Then argue with counter claims. If you just want to claim what other people said and that is not what other people said be prepared to be stand corrected.

Bonimenier said "Of course the Tour of 2020 will be remembered as it is special how it got turned around on the penultimate stage in a TT."

Basically, if Pogacar had turned it around in such an unexpected, sudden way against somebody else it would have been just as memorable. It's memorable because of the way it happened, not because it happened against Roglic.

 

[Bonimenier]

I will instead argue you and @Bonimenier did exactly that. That is i made a claim in the lines of Pogačar bating Roglič or Pogačar beating Porte. There is a huge difference in perception of the win.

Then you two came and instead of arguing otherwise made some cryptic one liners claiming i supposedly said something you don't agree with. Not explaining what exactly it is i supposedly said. Not arguing against the claim i made.

Hence don't blame me for doing your part. If you want to argue. Then argue with counter claims. If you just want to claim what other people said and that is not what other people said be prepared to be stand corrected.

Read your own original post before posting this nonsense, please. It's not our job to repeat what you said.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Bonimenier said "Of course the Tour of 2020 will be remembered as it is special how it got turned around on the penultimate stage in a TT."

Basically, if Pogacar had turned it around in such an unexpected, sudden way against somebody else it would have been just as memorable. It's memorable because of the way it happened, not because it happened against Roglic.

That for sure is a much better reply. Now obviously in the end it comes down to an (un)biased opinion. Still regardless of someones opinion i feel that objectively Pogačar beating Roglič or Pogačar beating Porte on TDF 2020.

That is a whole different playing field.

@Bonimenier

No. Do your part yourself.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Mohorič confirmed for local media that if team Slovenia will be left empty handed on WC then all involved will be really disappointed.

Mohorič: Če ostanemo praznih rok, bomo zelo razočarani

Svetovno prvenstvo v Belgiji, na katerem bo nastopilo 22 slovenskih kolesarjev, bo potekalo od 19. do 26. septembra. Prvi vrhunec bo že v nedeljo, ko bosta na 43,3 km dolgem kronometru nastopila Tadej Pogačar in Jan Tratnik. Prenos na TV SLO 2 in MMC-ju.

www.rtvslo.si

 

[CyclistAbi]

Mapping 1:1 is not all that feasible and usually hard thing to do. But still considering the duo which one is the next Contador and which one is the next Froome?

P.S. I know Froome likely yelling from the peloton i am still here. But still.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Hello folks, is it 100% sure that Tadej and Roglic start WC RR next Sunday?

Thanks in advance...

 

[Bonimenier]

Hello folks, is it 100% sure that Tadej and Roglic start WC RR next Sunday?

Thanks in advance...

Unless something happens with either of them before Sunday they will both start.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Unless something happens with either of them before Sunday they will both start.

Thanks a lot - much appreciated

 

[CyclistAbi]

Yep, Roglič won a GT on disc brakes and rim brakes became obsolete.

Ineos Grenadiers finally switch to disc brakes

British team's switch means the entire men's peloton will be on disc brakes

www.cyclingnews.com

 

[CyclistAbi]

Four days and counting.