Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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I am asking myself questions about Roglic’s future at Jumbo. Sure he could target the Giro next year, but I ask myself if this DNS is not mainly out of disappointment. He has always said the tour was his main goal but now it looks very clear that he will not likely ever get the opportunity to be team leader at the tour.

I personally think he should have remained in the tour at least until after the rest day to see if he could help Jonas in the fight with Pogi.

Roglic just does not see himself as a domestique, which I also understand in a way, but it wont make his position within the jumbo team easier.
 
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I am asking myself questions about Roglic’s future at Jumbo. Sure he could target the Giro next year, but I ask myself if this DNS is not mainly out of disappointment. He has always said the tour was his main goal but now it looks very clear that he will not likely ever get the opportunity to be team leader at the tour.

I personally think he should have remained in the tour at least until after the rest day to see if he could help Jonas in the fight with Pogi.

Roglic just does not see himself as a domestique, which I also understand in a way, but it wont make his position within the jumbo team easier.
It's an interesting conversation, for sure.

The team is very vocal about team ethos & the journey they've taken from learners in 2016 to Grand Tour winners today. Their entire marketing is based on this "win together" mantra. But one area they might have overlooked is how to deal with an actual GT champion on an individual level.

Roglic is their only GT champion (at least until next weekend) & he cannot be treated as just another cog in their machine. This isn't how life works. Jumbo have a right to see their team as the centre of all their successes but the fact remains Roglic himself now has a palmarès, stature & ambition of a champion. So like WvA, he needs & deserves something to match his standing.

Frankly, I think the expectation Roglic would work for Jonas Vingegaard (especially after dislocating his shoulder!) was a bit off-kilter, i.e. a demand which had no real reason to exist beyond politely asking for a favor. Teams are the sum of many parts & riders have designated roles within them but the scenario people envisaged (i.e. Roglic essentially acting as bodyguard for Jonas, especially on the cols in a reduced group at the end of mountain stages) would require Roglic ceases to be a GT champion entirely & stop riding for himself.

I'd like to see examples of multiple GT winners sacrificing their own chances in their lifelong goal (the TdF for example). There won't be many.
 
I am asking myself questions about Roglic’s future at Jumbo. Sure he could target the Giro next year, but I ask myself if this DNS is not mainly out of disappointment. He has always said the tour was his main goal but now it looks very clear that he will not likely ever get the opportunity to be team leader at the tour.

I personally think he should have remained in the tour at least until after the rest day to see if he could help Jonas in the fight with Pogi.

Roglic just does not see himself as a domestique, which I also understand in a way, but it wont make his position within the jumbo team easier.
He got pulled out because he was getting worse. There's nothing more to it. Roglic looked super happy with Kuss at the finish on the Granon, I don't think he faked that.

They all have have contracts for the next few years. And after Granon Jumbo will surely realise having 2 GC leaders didn't hurt them. Next year is unlikely to have cobbles, and unlikely to have a stage as hard as Granon.

Vingegaard and Roglic both benefit from being on the same team.
 
He got pulled out because he was getting worse. There's nothing more to it. Roglic looked super happy with Kuss at the finish on the Granon, I don't think he faked that.

They all have have contracts for the next few years. And after Granon Jumbo will surely realise having 2 GC leaders didn't hurt them. Next year is unlikely to have cobbles, and unlikely to have a stage as hard as Granon.

Vingegaard and Roglic both benefit from being on the same team.
I think what it really showed is it won't work unless one sacrifices himself entirely for the other.

I view the Granon stage as a giant bluff which worked once & will never work again. Pogacar might have raced badly that day making very poor decisions but it'll likely never happen again. Roglic raced himself into the dirt on that stage on purpose because his chances were toast anyway.

But I really don't see what's in it for Roglic to go back to the TdF next year with Jonas Vingegaard (who now looks stronger than Pogacar!) as a teammate. Notwithstanding everything else as well (split team, split objectives, lack of support). I know Jumbo will say exactly as you've posted but in this scenario Roglic starts to look like a convenient tactical pawn who'll be used & then discarded because their real number one is Vingegaard.
 
I think what it really showed is it won't work unless one sacrifices himself entirely for the other.

I view the Granon stage as a giant bluff which worked once & will never work again. Pogacar might have raced badly that day making very poor decisions but it'll likely never happen again. Roglic raced himself into the dirt on that stage on purpose because his chances were toast anyway.
The equation is fundamentally different if neither Jonas nor Rogla crash. Because then it is not a bluff.
 
Ineos have Grand Tour champions working for others in the team ...Thomas, Carapaz, TGH all work for others

This idea that you are too big to work for a fellow rider is rubbish
It is the ethos of riders ...very few champions do NOT work for others and only because they retire near the top

Brilliant and all a rider Roglic is he is 32 and the young generation of Pogacar, Vingegaard, Hindley (yes Hindley who is a superb climber) are up and coming and already champions..plus more are on their way like Pidcock

This is cycling ...if you are not the winner you are the helper

Roglic should try for the Giro next year and one day classics where he has a better chance of victory or go to GTs as a super domestique ...these are the choices...JV know that

Alternatively he may have to leave JV and go to a smaller team to get Tour leadership

And there is no sentiment in cycling ...this rubbish about such and such are best mates ....ask Mark Cavandish and Quickstep
 
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The equation is fundamentally different if neither Jonas nor Rogla crash. Because then it is not a bluff.
If Rogla would get his 2020 form it would not be bluff, but he is getting older and the chance that he will get to that level again becomes less likely.

As it stands now it would be like UAE taking Pogi and Almeida as a second leader. Everyone knows they will ride for Pogi.

Jumbo will now ride for Jonas in the tour. Point.

And I am really not sure if Primoz is ok with only going for the other Grand Tours and one day races. He wants the big price: yellow in Paris and the only chance for that would be switching teams. We will see what the future holds.
 
Ineos have Grand Tour champions working for others in the team ...Thomas, Carapaz, TGH all work for others

This idea that you are too big to work for a fellow rider is rubbish
It is the ethos of riders ...very few champions do NOT work for others and only because they retire near the top

Brilliant and all a rider Roglic is he is 32 and the young generation of Pogacar, Vingegaard, Hindley (yes Hindley who is a superb climber) are up and coming and already champions..plus more are on their way like Pidcock

This is cycling ...if you are not the winner you are the helper

Roglic should try for the Giro next year and one day classics where he has a better chance of victory or go to GTs as a super domestique ...these are the choices...JV know that

Alternatively he may have to leave JV and go to a smaller team to get Tour leadership

And there is no sentiment in cycling ...this rubbish about such and such are best mates ....ask Mark Cavandish and Quickstep
But Jumbo was actually a small team.

At least until Roglic started compiling race wins for fun (they owe him a lot). Their big mistake in hindsight was 2019, i.e. that TdF was right there for the taking & Roglic at his Vuelta level would have won, absolutely in my mind.

Also, in terms of standing Roglic > Thomas, Carapaz & especially Tao GH (lol & that one).

A good example at Ineos would be Froome in the 2018 TdF, i.e. leader/co-leader with Thomas but he raced for himself to get onto the podium. He didn't dom for G Thomas in that TdF.
 
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I'll post this here only because of Eurosport's commentary yesterday, i.e. Carlton Kirby created a complete fake narrative about the split between Pogacar & Vingegaard happening at the start of the Mende stage "because Jumbo went back for Roglic who'd had a problem". He kept on repeating throughout the stage as well, like an idiot. It turns out the truth was much different:

McCross just said it was because Vingo stopped for a nature break and Pogi went for it. I quess WVA just happened to go at the same time. :rolleyes:

I guess we'll never know.
 
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But Jumbo was actually a small team.

At least until Roglic started compiling race wins for fun (they owe him a lot). Their big mistake in hindsight was 2019, i.e. that TdF was right there for the taking & Roglic at his Vuelta level would have won, absolutely in my mind.

Also, in terms of standing Roglic > Thomas, Carapaz & especially Tao GH (lol & that one).

A good example at Ineos would be Froome in the 2018 TdF, i.e. leader/co-leader with Thomas but he raced for himself to get onto the podium. He didn't dom for G Thomas in that TdF.
Jumbo is a small team ...not on their budget ? A small team is B&B Hotels

Well Thomas is a Tour champion and also 2nd on the Tour and worked for people before and since
Carapaz and TGH are Giro champions however you may deride their achievements

Roglic has not managed to win either of those ...so lol to your comment on standings as ridiculous
results are what count and 3 Veultas does not count in comparison to a Tour win
Also a Giro win is better than a Vuelta win
Froome is a 4 time Tour champion , Giro and Vuelta champion . He cannot be compared to Roglic on what he did or did not do at the Tour but he did work for the team at many races but not the Tour ...but he had WON IT several times and was going for the win so your example is rubbish

I am sick of the bias on this forum that knocks real achievement
 
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Jumbo is a small team ...not on their budget ? A small team is B&B Hotels

Well Thomas is a Tour champion and also 2nd on the Tour and worked for people before and since
Carapaz and TGH are Giro champions however you may deride their achievements

Roglic has not managed to win either of those ...so lol to your comment on standings as ridiculous
results are what count and 3 Veultas does not count in comparison to a Tour win
Also a Giro win is better than a Vuelta win
Froome is a 4 time Tour champion , Giro and Vuelta champion . He cannot be compared to Roglic on what he did or did not do at the Tour but he did work for the team at many races but not the Tour ...but he had WON IT several times and was going for the win so your example is rubbish

I am sick of the bias on this forum that knocks real achievement
You said Roglic should go to a small team if he wants to be 'leader' at the TdF. History says Jumbo was a small team until he started winning again, again & again. Then WvA was added & the rest is history.

But if you think B&B Hotels would be Rogla's level if he wants team leadership in the TdF... then I'm not the one with extreme bias.
 
I think what it really showed is it won't work unless one sacrifices himself entirely for the other.

I view the Granon stage as a giant bluff which worked once & will never work again. Pogacar might have raced badly that day making very poor decisions but it'll likely never happen again. Roglic raced himself into the dirt on that stage on purpose because his chances were toast anyway.

But I really don't see what's in it for Roglic to go back to the TdF next year with Jonas Vingegaard (who now looks stronger than Pogacar!) as a teammate. Notwithstanding everything else as well (split team, split objectives, lack of support). I know Jumbo will say exactly as you've posted but in this scenario Roglic starts to look like a convenient tactical pawn who'll be used & then discarded because their real number one is Vingegaard.
But I really don't see what's in it for Roglic to go back to the TdF next year with Jonas Vingegaard (who now looks stronger than Pogacar!) as a teammate. Notwithstanding everything else as well (split team, split objectives, lack of support). I know Jumbo will say exactly as you've posted but in this scenario Roglic starts to look like a convenient tactical pawn who'll be used & then discarded because their real number one is Vingegaard.
I don't agree...I'll try to get back later to explain...
 

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