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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Eeslliw

Sep 29, 2020
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Lequack said:
Problem is even if he has good form, the team wont work for him. He might have free hand for sure, but not a protected rider status.
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So you are saying after they cracked Pogacar with their biggest weapon: 1-2 attacks with probably 2nd and 3rd best GC rider in the world, they will go to strategy with sole leader (Jonas) and try to win Tour that way (1on1 vs Pogi)? No way. Only if Roglic is really weak and far worse next season I could see that.

Or JV will get greedy and try to win all 3 GTs (Roglic to Giro and Vuelta; Jonas TDF) :D.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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There is still one minor detail involved. Before we go that far ahead in the future. Thinking about such things. And that is they still have to win Tour 2022. For Rogla my prediction was he would need to find 2 minutes against Pogi. And that likely should do. For Jonas i have no idea. As i never really thought about it too much. Maybe two and a half minutes will be more then enough or maybe it just won't do. Clearly Pogi is on demise but still i wouldn't dismiss him like that.
 
bNator

bNator

Apr 14, 2021
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CyclistAbi said:
C'mon. Lets give this guy a chance. Plenty of time to take other rewards after. If Jonas takes it this year. Half of it is Rogličes anyway. That is a step up compared to finishing second in 2020.

Tour title will come.
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Sorry but I’m taking the 2020 edition any day of the week. 95% of the tour was great when compared to 2021 and 2022…

Me - I don’t count Roglic’s contribution to beating Pogacar as any form of success. Even though Roglic seemed happy, he signed his dom sentence that day. Apart from that, it’s Roglic who should be taking yellow from Pogi’s shoulders not Vinge. In my book at least…
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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bNator said:
Sorry but I’m taking the 2020 edition any day of the week. 95% of the tour was great when compared to 2021 and 2022…

Me - I don’t count Roglic’s contribution to beating Pogacar as any form of success. Even though Roglic seemed happy, he signed his dom sentence that day. Apart from that, it’s Roglic who should be taking yellow from Pogi’s shoulders not Vinge. In my book at least…
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There isn't a chance in hell Roglic becomes a domestique in the TdF going forwards after this 2022 edition.

If Jumbo imagines that's the plan, they're nuts & don't understand the guy. He's doing the job he's paid to do but does he look in any way happy? Nah, he's just doing what's expected of a paid professional. But the discussion post-Tour & post-season will be an interesting one, for sure.

Another topic should be understanding 'why' all his teammates seem to be super performing this year whilst Roglic seemed below par, whether in Paris-Nice, Itzulia (riding with an injury wasn't great for his form) & then in the Dauphiné when Jumbo basically said to the cycling world: look how strong Vingegaard is!

Roglic himself has said Pogacar gives him motivation to improve himself but this situation is a little different because there's now another barrier between him & a TdF win & he's in the same team. As for being co-leader next year, if the plan is like this year where the reality was Roglic leader B (as demonstrated by WvA & Jonas having preferential treatment for their spare bike on stage 5), then the same cr*p on the road will likely happen again due to lack of support. Pog will probably never jump on Rog's wheel again as well if the same situation presents itself because he'll know Vingegaard is the real leader (that bluff could only work once).

It's a new situation & I can't predict what will happen. All I know is Roglic has the mentality of a serial winner & he's absolutely not a dom. His motivation would likely end right there & then if that's what they demand.

Just my opinion.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Rackham said:
There isn't a chance in hell Roglic becomes a domestique in the TdF going forwards after this 2022 edition.

If Jumbo imagines that's the plan, they're nuts & don't understand the guy. He's doing the job he's paid to do but does he look in any way happy? Nah, he's just doing what's expected of a paid professional. But the discussion post-Tour & post-season will be an interesting one, for sure.

Another topic should be understanding 'why' all his teammates seem to be super performing this year whilst Roglic seemed below par, whether in Paris-Nice, Itzulia (riding with an injury wasn't great for his form) & then in the Dauphiné when Jumbo basically said to the cycling world: look how strong Vingegaard is!

Roglic himself has said Pogacar gives him motivation to improve himself but this situation is a little different because there's now another barrier between him & a TdF win & he's in the same team. As for being co-leader next year, if the plan is like this year where the reality was Roglic leader B (as demonstrated by WvA & Jonas having preferential treatment for their spare bike on stage 5), then the same cr*p on the road will likely happen again due to lack of support. Pog will probably never jump on Rog's wheel again as well if the same situation presents itself because he'll know Vingegaard is the real leader (that bluff could only work once).

It's a new situation & I can't predict what will happen. All I know is Roglic has the mentality of a serial winner & he's absolutely not a dom. His motivation would likely end right there & then if that's what they demand.

Just my opinion.
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I think motivation at this stage is much more hampered by injury than having to work for Vingegaard. He looked really happy on top of Granon, and I bet he'd really want to be there if the team brings yellow to Paris.

What it means for the future is uncertain.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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bNator said:
Sorry but I’m taking the 2020 edition any day of the week. 95% of the tour was great when compared to 2021 and 2022…

Me - I don’t count Roglic’s contribution to beating Pogacar as any form of success. Even though Roglic seemed happy, he signed his dom sentence that day. Apart from that, it’s Roglic who should be taking yellow from Pogi’s shoulders not Vinge. In my book at least…
Click to expand...

I don't know about that. In my opinion this was the plan for this Tour edition all along. For one or the other to try to take it. As sending just one would make Pogi target him and it would be hard to find that two minutes. Even injured Roglič and three minutes behind was something that Pogi didn't want to let slide on stage 11. And was rather wearing himself down to the extent he hit a wall on the last climb. This was to much extent self inflicted defeat. JV will in my opinion always need two if they want to be in contention. That is if things stay the same in regards to individual quality. Roglič will eventually find himself in the same position Jonas now is. He just needs to be a bit more selfish and needs to understand that the team doesn't always work in his best interests. As currently he likely trusts them 100%. But no need to exaggerate for now. Minor details in need to be sorted out.

And it's not like Roglič, Pogačar and Vingegaard won't face each other on other races too. If Vingegaard wants such status in the team he will need to earn it on the road. Not just on this race. If Roglič will bode better. Then Vingegaard will work for Roglič.
 
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Barnacle Bill

Barnacle Bill

Sep 22, 2020
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Yes I can't quite picture Roglic as a dom in the future however the current situation plays out. Although in terms of ability, as some sort of Dennis-Kuss-Porte hybrid he would be.... quite something, I'd rather see him as a leader on another team if it comes to that.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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lol @ everyone who thought Rogla would become a super domestique for Jonas Vingegore.

How about base domestique for the early parts of 3rd cat climbs instead? He's a working class man & now has a working class job in the team. It makes perfect sense.

Barnacle Bill said:
Yes I can't quite picture Roglic as a dom in the future however the current situation plays out. Although in terms of ability, as some sort of Dennis-Kuss-Porte hybrid he would be.... quite something, I'd rather see him as a leader on another team if it comes to that.
Click to expand...

Roglic as a domestique will never happen. He's not Steven Kruijswijk. He's a serial winner & champion. Jumbo like to appropriate his wins as #samenwinnen team victories propaganda, but it's just that, propaganda.

The reality is he's a 3x GT champion. No one asks Alberto Contador to be a dom, so no one gets to ask Rogla either. In fact Jumbo should take note right now, i.e. beyond his physical condition (which is bad), he's just not cut out to be a servant of anyone. He never was.

The most they're getting in this TdF is a few pulls & then he's done.
 
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Red Rick

Red Rick

Feb 20, 2012
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Rackham said:
lol @ everyone who thought Rogla would become a super domestique for Jonas Vingegore.

How about base domestique for the early parts of 3rd cat climbs instead? He's a working class man & now has a working class job in the team. It makes perfect sense.



Roglic as a domestique will never happen. He's not Steven Kruijswijk. He's a serial winner & champion. Jumbo like to appropriate his wins as #samenwinnen team victories propaganda, but it's just that, propaganda.

The reality is he's a 3x GT champion. No one asks Alberto Contador to be a dom, so no one gets to ask Rogla either. In fact Jumbo should take note right now, i.e. beyond his physical condition (which is bad), he's just not cut out to be a servant of anyone. He never was.

The most they're getting in this TdF is a few pulls & then he's done.
Click to expand...
How can people forget the sheer comedy of Contador trying to set up a sprint train
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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Red Rick said:
How can people forget the sheer comedy of Contador trying to set up a sprint train
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Memory wipe. If that happened I have zero recollection. Just as well, I presume. Contador at the end for me was that rider who attacked in the 2017 TdF when all hope was lost (in the Alps I believe) & totally blew up. But he went anyway.

On the topic of super domestique in this TdF, Roglic isn't even required considering it looks like Jumbo have the strongest man in the race anyway. I mean what's he going to do? Serve Vingegaard a cocktail as he crushes Hautacam? No, I reckon Roglic might have been motivated had this TdF been a real battle but so far, it's a walk in the park for Jonas Vingegaard Rasmussen & the guys in the Jumbo team car.
 
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Rollthedice

Rollthedice

May 11, 2013
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Barnacle Bill said:
Yes I can't quite picture Roglic as a dom in the future however the current situation plays out. Although in terms of ability, as some sort of Dennis-Kuss-Porte hybrid he would be.... quite something, I'd rather see him as a leader on another team if it comes to that.
Click to expand...

If Vinge wins this Tour, which seems more and more likely, next year Jumbo will go exclusively with him for Le Tour. It makes no sense to bring Roglic along. So, if Vinge is fit and healthy, Roglic has to choose between trying the Giro/Vuelta double or go somewhere else. I suspect that Jumbo will make a Lance type of program for Vinge next year, keep the risks at minimum and build the monster peak.
 
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Carrick-On-Seine

Carrick-On-Seine

Sep 14, 2020
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Rollthedice said:
If Vinge wins this Tour, which seems more and more likely, next year Jumbo will go exclusively with him for Le Tour. It makes no sense to bring Roglic along. So, if Vinge is fit and healthy, Roglic has to choose between trying the Giro/Vuelta double or go somewhere else. I suspect that Jumbo will make a Lance type of program for Vinge next year, keep the risks at minimum and build the monster peak.
Click to expand...

It didn't seem to work out too bad for Sky bringing Froome and Thomas in 2018 and then Bernal and Thomas in 2019.
 
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