Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Red Rick]

• Guy crashes over a hay bale
• Dislocates his shoulder and puts it back himself
• Does suicide attack leading to teammate gaining 3 minutes
• Is in so much pain he struggles to get off the bike
• Is getting worse
• Got dropped during breakaway formation
• Wanted to continue
• DS confirmed that Roglic wanted to continue but that he was pulled out

Yeah definitely the worst teammate ever

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

I don’t agree they are better team players at all. But seeing how you do not respond well to reason I don’t wish to continue this discussion with you…

If you cannot even admit Wout is a better teamplayer than Roglic after all he has done for Jumbo the past years, wow then I indeed dont want to continue that discussion with you #whatajoke

 

[Oldermanish]

The yellow jersey is not won yet though so whatever small, he could still be needed to help Jonas.

I really think it is less about the injury than the disappointment and realising what this tour means for his future goals.

I saw Primoz arrive 3 days in the alps, he looked quite relaxed and not seriously in pain (unlikely other riders who looked completely wasted).

The one and only goal of Primoz in cycling is winning yellow in Paris. I can understand if he needs time to adjust to a new reality that leadership in the tour will likely not happen At Jumbo anymore.

People say: he could do classics, he could do the Giro. The guy does not want that. He wants the tour.

Lotta assumptions here. The facts are obvious: 1) Primoz assisted Jonas in gaining the yellow jersey. 2)He is injured and the extent is daily analysis. 3) He is a good team rider as well as leader. 4) He is a PRO. His first obligation is to stay healthy enough to maintain a career.
The rest is all of us guessing at scenarios and drama.

 

[Oldermanish]

Who says it will be the decisive moment of the Tour? Who says that one time suffices?

we still have the 3 most gruelling mountain stages to go….

It seems like Jumbo and the Jumbo fans really think this in the bag…2 min 22 is a good difference but one bad day at lourdes hautacam and it could be gone…

They are once again underestimating Pogi

You must not have seen too many recent Tours. Assisting a teammate gain over 2 minutes on a single stage is as decisive as it gets. If he can't maintain that gap without one teammate then he likely couldn't maintain it at all. If Stephen K hadn't crashed out we probably wouldn't be discussing it.

 

[Tinnekeisabella]

• Guy crashes over a hay bale
• Dislocates his shoulder and puts it back himself
• Does suicide attack leading to teammate gaining 3 minutes
• Is in so much pain he struggles to get off the bike
• Is getting worse
• Got dropped during breakaway formation
• Wanted to continue
• DS confirmed that Roglic wanted to continue but that he was pulled out

Yeah definitely the worst teammate ever

-“team leader”s bike is not give priority on the team car during a crucial cobble stage
-was left isolated and looked over when he fell
-was told by the team they still believed in his chances and continued
-was used as a pawn to lure out Pogacar (which worked)
-did not look like suffering on the three Alps finishes I visites
-realises he can forget about ever being team leader for his one ultimate cycling goal
-realises he has been used

 

[Oldermanish]

-“team leader”s bike is not give priority on the team car during a crucial cobble stage
-was left isolated and looked over when he fell
-was told by the team they still believed in his chances and continued
-was used as a pawn to lure out Pogacar (which worked)
-did not look like suffering on the three Alps finishes I visites
-realises he can forget about ever being team leader for his one ultimate cycling goal
-realises he has been used

"was left isolated and looked over when he fell"? Really? I didn't see that camera angle at all. I saw a hay bale kicked into the road at a chicane and riders having less than a second to react. Please call Primoz and have him give you the true story, will you?

 

[Rackham]

"was left isolated and looked over when he fell"? Really? I didn't see that camera angle at all. I saw a hay bale kicked into the road at a chicane and riders having less than a second to react. Please call Primoz and have him give you the true story, will you?

On this topic of crashing, Vingegaard is good example yesterday, i.e. Benoot took the worst hit because he was in front whereas Vingegaard got off with a lighter fall. Tony Martin also used to crash instead of Roglic. That's what a train is there for. In both Roglic TdF crash scenarios over the past 12 months, he was missing that train of teammates (or at least the wheel of a teammate in front).

Last year that was due to Gesink's DNF in the same stage 3 & Tony Martin's second crash (this had disorganized the team & Colbrelli did the rest), whilst this year, it was due to the team car calling everyone back to assist Vingegaard in that game of musical bikes he played. Only Laporte remained up front with Roglic & he wasn't in front of him when he crashed.

 

[bNator]

-“team leader”s bike is not give priority on the team car during a crucial cobble stage
-was left isolated and looked over when he fell
-was told by the team they still believed in his chances and continued
-was used as a pawn to lure out Pogacar (which worked)
-did not look like suffering on the three Alps finishes I visites
-realises he can forget about ever being team leader for his one ultimate cycling goal
-realises he has been used

It is all possible but it is pure speculation without any evidence to support it except for your “expert” observation of his lack of suffering. Should have made them suffer faces I guess…

Now please stop your ridiculous speculations and look at Primož Roglič arriving at the finish of stage 11. Is this a face of a guy that feels has been used? Or is he so stupid (according to you) he does not yet realise what just happened?

 

[Rackham]

It is all possible but it is pure speculation without any evidence to support it except for your “expert” observation of his lack of suffering. Should have made them suffer faces I guess…

Now please stop your ridiculous speculations and look at Primož Roglič arriving at the finish of stage 11. Is this a face of a guy that feels has been used? Or is he so stupid (according to you) he does not yet realise what just happened?

It's the face of a man... who avenged La Planche des Belles Filles 2020! Seriously, I bet a tactical job well done on stage 11 was satisfying.

But the speculations cut both ways, i.e. using images of smiling Roglic at the end of a stage shouldn't also be used to paint the picture of a happy teammate who's accepted the role of Vingegaard domestique without blinking or his super okay with how that situation came about in the first place. At the end of the day none of us are in the team or in any of the rider's heads. But one things we do know is Roglic went into the TdF to win the thing. For real.

Whether his team had the same intent is debatable considering the lack of support at key moments. I think that's a valid conversation.

 

[bNator]

It's the face of a man... who avenged La Planche des Belles Filles 2020! Seriously, I bet a tactical job well done on stage 11 was satisfying.

But the speculations cut both ways, i.e. using images of smiling Roglic at the end of a stage shouldn't also be used to paint the picture of a happy teammate who's accepted the role of Vingegaard domestique without blinking or his super okay with how that situation came about in the first place. At the end of the day none of us are in the team or in any of the rider's heads. But one things we do know is Roglic went into the TdF to win the thing. For real.

Whether his team had the same intent is debatable considering the lack of support at key moments. I think that's a valid conversation.

Yes - I realised that as soon as i hit "Post reply" button

 

[CyclistAbi]

-was used as a pawn to lure out Pogacar (which worked)

More accurate description would be they sacrificed their king. And the king was in the end OK with it. He sacrificed himself for the Queen.

That what kings do.

 

[CyclistAbi]

In my opinion this Tour edition was over on stage 11. It had all the components a proper Tour editions needs to have. Comparable to that TDF 2020 finale. You got to hand it to Slovenians. Tour is in great condition under their stewardship. A real savage of a race.

P.S. If now JV goes and loses the title. That is totally on them. In that case next year just add KoM to the long bucket list of goals. And it should be all right again.

 

[acm]

"was left isolated and looked over when he fell"? Really? I didn't see that camera angle at all. I saw a hay bale kicked into the road at a chicane and riders having less than a second to react. Please call Primoz and have him give you the true story, will you?

And don't forget to add "Primoz, you didn't look like suffering on top of AdH".

I saw him in so much pain in one interview after AdH stage and I didn't need to be there. I've never seen him like that.

 

[acm]

Jumbo left him in the race for over 10 says without any problem. Even using him while they could have saved him for later in the pyrenees and let his injury heal properly.

He could have done the one stage and decide on the restday today to pull out.

Again, I have seen him arrive. He was not in the pain he was in last year for example.

There is more into this than the injury, otherwise they had pulled him out way sooner.

I guess we have a TJV doctor here guys, knowing everything about Roglic injuries and how bad are they.

 

[bNator]

In my opinion this Tour edition was over on stage 11. It had all the components a proper Tour editions needs to have. Comparable to that TDF 2020 finale. You got to hand it to Slovenians. Tour is in great condition under their stewardship. A real savage of a race.

P.S. If now JV goes and loses the title. That is totally on them. In that case next year just add KoM to the long bucket list of goals. And it should be all right again.

Don’t be so negative - this is still going to be one hell of a race even if without our beloved one… Personally, I’m actually honestly rooting for Pogi for the first time. TJV need a lesson in humility. Ok so does Pogi - but TJV need it more

 

[CyclistAbi]

Don’t be so negative - this is still going to be one hell of a race even if without our beloved one… Personally, I’m actually honestly rooting for Pogi for the first time. TJV needs a lesson in humility. Ok so does Pogi - but TJV need it more

As Slovenian i would like it more if Pogi wins. But if Jonas can win then i won't lose sleep over it. It should be mano-a-mano and let the best one win. As this is modern cycling a lion share was already done on stage 11 by the lion. If now Pogi can undone that. Then for sure he is the rightful owner of the title. A legend. If JV does something to self inflict their defeat. Then next year you all work for Roglič.

 

[acm]

Don’t be so negative - this is still going to be one hell of a race even if without our beloved one… Personally, I’m actually honestly rooting for Pogi for the first time. TJV need a lesson in humility. Ok so does Pogi - but TJV need it more

Me too. Pogi already got a lesson on Granon.

 

[ontheroad]

In my opinion this Tour edition was over on stage 11. It had all the components a proper Tour editions needs to have. Comparable to that TDF 2020 finale. You got to hand it to Slovenians. Tour is in great condition under their stewardship. A real savage of a race.

P.S. If now JV goes and loses the title. That is totally on them. In that case next year just add KoM to the long bucket list of goals. And it should be all right again.

It was shaping up to be one of the best tours in recent memory up until the now infamous Stage 11 which was by itself an epic day. The problem for the race as a spectacle was that JV took too much time on his rivals. If he had taken 1.5 instead of 3 minutes on Pog it would still be in the balance and we would be in for an epic final week. Instead we have only got dull defensive Sky type riding for the last few days.

With the loss of a few Jumbo riders there is still the faint hope that something might happen but it is going to take a huge crack by the yellow jersey. If Vingegaard just rides on Pogs wheel for the rest of the tour it will fizzle out into a damp squib.

 

[ppanther92]

He probably will prove me wrong anyway but for some reason I think he is not going to win the Vuelta this year.

 

[Extinction]

I dont understand what you are perplexed about. If you are riding with an injury, you are sure to make it worse. You might be able to perform still, close to your abilities, but you are gonna pay for it later. Hence they should have pulled him out earlier, and not when they did now much later. Especially since Roglic expressed he was in great pain in stages after the crash.

I don't buy if you are injured, but able to make a huge contribution on the Galibier, you are hurt
enough to risk further complications by continuing. If you are injured that badly, you simply can't contribute period. He's pulled out now only to focus on the Vuelta, not because he is hurt. But when you have a teammate in yellow you die for him to win in Paris. And now Jumbo is in a real predicament with the loss of Kreuswik on top of it.

 

[Salvarani]

I don't buy if you are injured, but able to make a huge contribution on the Galibier, you are hurt
enough to risk further complications by continuing. If you are injured that badly, you simply can't contribute period. He's pulled out now only to focus on the Vuelta, not because he is hurt. But when you have a teammate in yellow you die for him to win in Paris. And now Jumbo is in a real perdicament with the loss of Kreuswik on top of it.

Are you trolling?

He was sacrificing himself, WHILE being hurt. I think you are forgetting that Roglic is one the best riders in the peloton. He probably just pushed on, while being in pain and that will be on the team if Roglic will suffer longterm from these efforts.

They used him to trick Pogacar. It worked, but at what cost? We will find out in the coming months of what is left of the season.

 

[VeloMaster]

I am a (retired) student of discourse and longtime racer and fan, so here's my take on Rogla and the DNS.

There are two competing positions circulating now. 1/ He selfishly took himself out of a race he could have completed, abandoning Jonas in yellow, to focus on his next objective. 2/ He rode himself through days of enormous pain and suffering, thereby contributing greatly to Jonas's prospects for yellow in Paris, but finally reached a breaking point.

In the absence of medical reports, insider info, performance data, etc, which one you choose reflects your prior feelings about Rogla, JV, the sanctity of the TdF and its 'warrior' culture, and so on.

As a longtime fan of Rogla, I choose Number 2. But to be honest, I must admit I don't really know. Neither does the "loser" school of Philippa, Hincapie, Mikel Bjerg (lecturing a Grand Tour champ, really?), and the rest of that ilk.

 

[Salvarani]

I am a (retired) student of discourse and longtime racer and fan, so here's my take on Rogla and the DNS.

There are two competing positions circulating now. 1/ He selfishly took himself out of a race he could have completed, abandoning Jonas in yellow, to focus on his next objective. 2/ He rode himself through days of enormous pain and suffering, thereby contributing greatly to Jonas's prospects for yellow in Paris, but finally reached a breaking point.

In the absence of medical reports, insider info, performance data, etc, which one you choose reflects your prior feelings about Rogla, JV, the sanctity of the TdF and its 'warrior' culture, and so on.

As a longtime fan of Rogla, I choose Number 2. But to be honest, I must admit I don't really know. Neither does the "loser" school of Philippa, Hincapie, Mikel Bjerg (lecturing a Grand Tour champ, really?), and the rest of that ilk.

Yes and if it really is the second option here that is closest to the truth... then the team has made a really foolish decision to not pull him out earlier. Really hope that is not the case for Roglic sake. I wouldnt blame him for "abandoning" if he has been used like that.

 

[Extinction]

Are you trolling?

He was sacrificing himself, WHILE being hurt. I think you are forgetting that Roglic is one the best riders in the peloton. He probably just pushed on, while being in pain and that will be on the team if Roglic will suffer longterm from these efforts.

They used him to trick Pogacar. It worked, but at what cost? We will find out in the coming months of what is left of the season.

Not at all, like I said this hasn't to do with injuries being so bad, but wanting to win the Vuelta. Now we can debate whether or not team priorities should be on him winning the Vuelta in 6 weeks or Vingegaard winning this Tour now. But let's not kid ourselves otherwise.

 

[Rackham]

It's funny to read & hear comments from various people (professionals, journalists or just fans) who deify the Tour de France & elevate the race to a Godly status which demands blood, sweat, tears & sacrifice (even career sacrifice because why not eh), or else a rider will be condemned as a selfish quitter for eternity (something like that).

Meanwhile back on planet earth a week after the TdF people look back & think "was that worth getting so excited about?" & move on immediately to the next race. And then the next race & so on. It's the heat of July, i.e. it gives people TdF fever & makes them crazy. If the Roglic TdF retirement happened exactly as Jumbo said it did, then the cold harsh truth of team economics says as a serial winner for Jumbo Visma, Roglic must be protected for the good of the sponsors & team. I think that call should have been made even sooner (which is what Merijn Zeeman hinted at in an interview today). Let's hope Roglic hasn't suffered long term issues for the rest of the season.

If Lance & Hincapie demand sacrifice at the altar of the TdF, they're free to ride the parcours at any time as cyclotouristes & croak somewhere on the roads of France in a scorching summer furnace as a tribute to their deity. L.A. could even ride around in one of his yellow jerseys as well, i.e. it's totally legal.