Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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I thought so, but now I'm not sure...at all.
The annual WvA illusion, like on Ventoux last year. People saw him drop Pog on Hautacam after a 4 min pull and think he can touch these guys. Except he climbed 4 minutes slower than Jonas and he got dropped early on Azet the day before. He would also lose a lot of minutes on high altitude climbs, he was dropped on Granon very early after being in the breakaway.
His coach says:
Lamberts still has a strong opinion today. “Top 10, that's possible,” he says in Het Laatste Nieuws . “But he cannot win the Tour. Unless there are no steep uphill finishes and the Tour stays away from the high mountains.”
“There is about 0.6 watts per kilogram of body weight difference between Wout's threshold and the threshold of the best classification riders,” Lamberts continues. “That's a lot. Moreover, Wout has no fat reserve, so you can't get it there either."
 
From what I understand Yates might return to BEX. Carapaz also leaves to EF. It is kinda striking these guys are leaving Ineos, isn't it?
I think people overestimate the support Ineos would give to Roglic. They are a British-centric team and Pidcock is their golden boy. He and Geraint would never work for Roglic. Reminder that G said he doesn't want to work for anyone anymore, he got to the point where he only wants to ride for himself. Castro didn't look good at all lately, Van Baarle goes to TJV. With Bernal we might actually get a rivalry, he is not gonna sacrifice for Roglic easily. The only guy I would trust is Martinez but I can see Ineos pairing Bernal and Martinez again for Giro and leaving Roglic alone for Tour.


Including those two possible "future" teammates from Ineos, Geraint and Rowe who criticised him on their podcast after he left. Roglic would not be very well welcomed at Ineos by their riders, there are lots of big egos there.

Yates is 99% staying at Ineos - There is no Bike Exchange.
 
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Summary: if Ineos want to compete again in the coming years to win the Tour de France, they need to sign Roglic. Also, Roglic himself will only have one goal in those coming years & that's to win the TdF. Ineos might even pay him more but in his opinion, Roglic should choose whichever team offers more support with the riders around him & according to Bruyneel, it's Ineos.
This would be strange for me . . . the possibility of becoming an Ineos fan. Life is full of surprises.
 
Adam Yates is a classic example of a rider you need to send to the Giro + Vuelta and hopefully he can get you some top-5/top-8s, and thats all you realistically can hope for. You don't really build a team for him, you let him do his thing, and you shoot on sprint stages with Viviani and breakaways on top of that. Thats what hes good for, and thats fine.

Much will depend on Egan Bernal this year. I follow him on Strava, and he does some big rides at the moment. Rumors are hes not doing La Vuelta, but that quick quickly change if he's flying in Burgos. Lets see.
 
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Van Aert has no chance for winning GC, at best he can top10, his own trainer said that. He needs to drop a lot of kilos but I don't think he wants that. One of the tactical consultants from Jumbo said that the team should not underestimate Pog and the 1-2 strategy is still the best option. There are lots of bad things that can happen to Jonas from crashes to covid, there should always be a plan B and WvA ain't it, Kruiswijk either. I don't see Jumbo trusting Kelderman for TdF. Jonas won le Tour because they managed to crack him on Granon, without Roglic there is no assurance that happens. UAE next year will probably bring a better team and Pog is gonna ride smarter.

I've seen on reddit and the commentator from Eurosport mentioned it. Google also found a reference on a Danish site: https://www.feltet.dk/nyheder/thomas_og_rowe_revser_roglics_tour-forladelse/ Since this article is 19 July I'm guessing it's the episode from 18 July.

Google translate from that site:

Rowe:


Thomas:



As I said, Roglic does not have a lot of friends at Ineos, these are the only guys in the peloton who actually went out and criticized the decision. Hincapie and Pippa York are irrelevant anyway.

I think people who think Ineos move is a good one from a performance perspective are kinda naive and probably haven't followed Ineos enough. All you have to do is to think about the last 2 Vueltas and what a clusterfuck that team can be.

Thanks for the link.


That quote from Zeeman about Roglic destroying himself before Jumbo sent him home needs some context & I think a question should be asked, i.e. "whose decision was it to have Roglic pull hard on Alpe d'Huez & the Mende stage?".

I watched those stages from 11 onwards, i.e. Roglic did work everyday at the front & several hard pulls, especially on Alpe. On the final stage of his Tour, he was dropped at the beginning & sat at the back of his group before Jumbo 'retrieved' him when the split was undone & immediately put him on the front before he split the group himself with a major pull on the cat 3 climb before Mende.

My point is if this was all Roglic's own choice then yeah, an example of self-sacrifice which might have torpedoed his own season & considering his back pain Jumbo were right to make him stop (& they should have previously stopped him from pulling as well). But if they had a say in this work & made him do it? That wouldn't be okay for multiple reasons (health, standing, history & basic decency etc.).

Roglic's post-injury stages tell a story themselves & it never looked like he was holding back or recuperating, at all. Either through his own choice, or the team's.
 
There are egos in all teams. And no big team will just automatically work for Roglič at the Tour. What i feel it's rather safe to say JV won't do that. And at the Tour JV is not the best team for Roglič. That is on why so many issues are involved for him on this race. He needs more homogeneous team. Ineos needs the edge. In my opinion it's a good match. It's risky but at the same time mutual benefits are there. If this is to happen then i guess it will be during the winter time. For now lets get Rogla on the bike again.
 
Thanks for the link.



That quote from Zeeman about Roglic destroying himself before Jumbo sent him home needs some context & I think a question should be asked, i.e. "whose decision was it to have Roglic pull hard on Alpe d'Huez & the Mende stage?".

I watched those stages from 11 onwards, i.e. Roglic did work everyday at the front & several hard pulls, especially on Alpe. On the final stage of his Tour, he was dropped at the beginning & sat at the back of his group before Jumbo 'retrieved' him when the split was undone & immediately put him on the front before he split the group himself with a major pull on the cat 3 climb before Mende.

My point is if this was all Roglic's own choice then yeah, an example of self-sacrifice which might have torpedoed his own season & considering his back pain Jumbo were right to make him stop (& they should have previously stopped him from pulling as well). But if they had a say in this work & made him do it? That wouldn't be okay for multiple reasons (health, standing, history & basic decency etc.).

Roglic's post-injury stages tell a story themselves & it never looked like he was holding back or recuperating, at all. Either through his own choice, or the team's.
I'm pretty sure Rog just went with the moment and decided to do the best he could. Also I don't think there's a gigantic difference between sitting in the gruppetto and doing one pull before dropping off.

I don't think egos clash in the team, I think it's more that the messaging is stupid.
 
I mean dude... Roglic was a "go-getter"? Praising an Olympic champion & 3x GT winner for finishing third on La Super Planche? (without mentioning context re injury).

Argh, my eyes.

Obviously JV noted Primoz's promising improvement compared to PDBF in 2020: 5th -> 3rd -> ... (you know what's next).
Hopefully Primoz draws some satisfaction from beating Pog this year (with the small help of Vinge).
 
There for sure were some TDF 2020 final ITT vibes on TDF 2022 stage 11. Hence some personal satisfaction likely was at play and on top of that it was about moving on. This is now history. Still this likely wasn't the primary objective. Roglič still gave Pogačar a choice. I crashed and i am injured and a whole light year behind. Will you give me some leeway? Roglič always gave that to Pogačar. When Pogačar was behind. That is before that ITT. And Pogačar basically said no. No way.

What hence Roglič achieved on this Tour edition is he got Pogačar from his back wheel. In general. This is in my opinion a rather important achievement. And then there is that BS. On how Roglič can't win the Tour anyway.

He will find a way i am sure of that. He will beat JV from within the team or with another team. And he will beat Pogačar.

If then another one jumps out of the bush. Then one more left. That is all there is to it.
 
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Lets not forget it was Roglič who relocated his shoulder on stage 5. Sat on the bike with his back broken. Pulled himself back in the contention. Yes he actually pulled the two helpers with him. Stayed close behind the duo on stage 7. Went on and throw himself under the bus on stage 11. When the team asked him as they had no other options open. It was not just bluff. He actually half beaten Pogačar. While the rest of the peloton was already dropped.

He will figure it out.
 
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The way I see it, key differences (from Roglič perspective) between TJV and Ineos are:
  • Ineos focuses solely on GC while TJV has multiple goals which clash with one another
  • TJV has a rider which likey has and possibly will continue to have an edge over him in the mountains while Ineos currently have no such rider
These two facts combined mean Roglič's chances for Tour victory should be higher in Ineos. As for other factors such as team spirit and rider development I think it's impossible to say for sure...
 
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@bNator

At JV he will now basically need to beat JV first. JV plotting against that to happen. But that is not the biggest issue i see. Roglič in general needs a more homogeneous team at a race such as the Tour. Strong but not as aggressive and different goals oriented. JV isn't such a team. I joked on how their surprise announcement will be they are going after KoM too. On top of everything. And indeed they won KoM in the end. They basically won everything there is to win. That is JV did. Roglič won nothing and got a nasty injury and a piece of two days old cake. As it looks like JV has figured it out and as in my opinion this system won't benefit Roglič. The time has come to look beyond that. At minimum to listen. And to make some hard decisions over the winter.
 
Obviously JV noted Primoz's promising improvement compared to PDBF in 2020: 5th -> 3rd -> ... (you know what's next).
Hopefully Primoz draws some satisfaction from beating Pog this year (with the small help of Vinge).

No satisfaction, it was ***. Now Pogacar looks human & likeable (hell, even I was cheering for him in the Pyrenees). This isn't acceptable. Rog versus Pog must happen without annoying haybale interruptions or Danish distractions.

Meanwhile, I'll tell myself the total radio silence from Roglic combined with the intensive vertebrae treatment he's receiving says he's doing absolutely everything he can to heal for the Vuelta. Hence no news because they don't have any yet.

Seeing Vingegaard & Pogacar nope out of a Vuelta title is also what makes Roglic such an awesome rider, i.e. he'll always go for glory if he can. No talk of fatigue, or heat, or long-term career projections. Just straight-up no-nonsense racing. That's what makes this injury so frustrating.
 
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No satisfaction, it was ***. Now Pogacar looks human & likeable (hell, even I was cheering for him in the Pyrenees). This isn't acceptable. Rog versus Pog must happen without annoying haybale interruptions or Danish distractions.

Meanwhile, I'll tell myself the total radio silence from Roglic combined with the intensive vertebrae treatment he's receiving says he's doing absolutely everything he can to heal for the Vuelta. Hence no news because they don't have any yet.

Seeing Vingegaard & Pogacar nope out of a Vuelta title is also what makes Roglic such an awesome rider, i.e. he'll always go for glory if he can. No talk of fatigue, or heat, or long-term career projections. Just straight-up no-nonsense racing. That's what makes this injury so frustrating.
We saw that in 2020. Roglic lost. Do you know how absolutely obnoxious you sound? No Danish distractions? Its a bike race goddamnit, and there are 180 other riders, and Vingegaard was the best. No Danish distractions at this point basically suggest you hope Vingegaard crashing out, not attending, getting sick etc. so you can have your beloved battle, where Roglic in 2023 in all likelyhood is losing to the 24 year old Pogacar.

Holy christ, rarely I have ever seen such a vivid cheerleader from one particular forum user. spread across the forum where you casually sprinkle in your disingenious takes on Roglic getting sacrified and flat out lies This is La Florecita-esque, and thats not good if you ever wondered.
 
We saw that in 2020. Roglic lost. Do you know how absolutely obnoxious you sound? No Danish distractions? Its a bike race goddamnit, and there are 180 other riders, and Vingegaard was the best. No Danish distractions at this point basically suggest you hope Vingegaard crashing out, not attending, getting sick etc. so you can have your beloved battle, where Roglic in 2023 in all likelyhood is losing to the 24 year old Pogacar.

Holy christ, rarely I have ever seen such a vivid cheerleader from one particular forum user. spread across the forum where you casually sprinkle in your disingenious takes on Roglic getting sacrified and flat out lies This is La Florecita-esque, and thats not good if you ever wondered.

Your facetiousness detector clearly isn't working.

Why so serious? As you said, it's just a bike race. I don't care about Vingegaard, i.e. that's the past now & it'll probably be 11 months until Roglic versus Vingegaard is even a real discussion again (beyond some early season pre-Tour form comparisons), so what's the point. This is now about the Vuelta & the annoying injury which will probably ruin Roglic's season.

Contrary to others I'm not a TdF obsessive. The best races & racing I've watched in recent years hasn't even been in the Tour & yes, the Vuelta is a race I've enjoyed for a long time (long before Roglic won it).

Also, I hit the reply button before you edited out that last paragraph but I'm leaving it in anyway because hey, why not.