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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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CyclistAbi

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I feel that we have discussed the possible future steps in depth. Now i guess best to wait for something official. Hopefully first to hear some good news about his health. Then to hopefully see happy Rogla. While all the masterpieces party. For Rogla to put all the pieces back together.

After we are golden.
 
Rackham

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Oldermanish said:
JV just had the triple-crown TdF. My guess is their budget will appreciate based on media exposure and increased sponsor interest. If they do nothing at all they at least don't let an asset like Roglic go to a rival with some of the added funds. That would assume he has no buy-out clause a suitor would pay which makes it a crazier circumstance if they lose him.
Click to expand...

Has a team ever kept an unhappy rider in their ranks & sent him into the Tour to do a role he doesn't want? I don't think Jumbo would keep Roglič if he's demotivated & wants nothing to do with next year's Jumbo TdF with Vingegaard & WvA going for the double yellow & green again (or maybe WvA going for yellow? i.e. as Jonas Vingegaard himself suggested a few days ago he'd be happy to share leadership with WvA).

I also think it would be a really low move from Jumbo to literally say to Roglič "we're rich, who cares what you want, you stay".

noob said:
Injured, in pain, trying to heal for vuelta. How likely is he to have spoons to micromanage his agent and be in negotiations about switching teams?
Click to expand...

All this speculation could end (or will end) when Rogla finds his missing Instagram login details (or his smartphone). I joke obviously but no updates = open speculation.

This is also how pro-sports works, i.e. when a rider is completely silent & says nothing about his team's TdF victory (no posts, no shares, no stories, no nothing), people can speculate regarding what that silence means. It's as likely he's simply focused on recovery with tunnel vision right now (& doesn't want distractions) as it is to suggest he told his agent to "get me the hell out of this team".

To be fair when reading books or articles about Primož Roglič he doesn't have an obsession with winning the Tour de France per se but he comes across as a rider who's absolutely committed to performing in that race & making an impression on it, i.e. 'the journey', not just the destination.

It's now questionable whether he has that freedom at Jumbo Visma.
 
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Luthor

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Jumbo Visma Fan :) said:
Whose to say Sivakov and Rodriguez are bad helpers, both are talented riders. Just to discredit them just because they aren’t as good as other Ineos riders doesn’t mean they can’t help.
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The poster I quoted said in a previous post that it's better to leave for Ineos if Roglic is weaker than Jonas. Sivakov and Rodriguez are not bad helpers but they're not gonna make the difference, they are not GC threats. To crack Jonas or Pog and win without being stronger, he would need someone really good like Bernal/Hindley. If it requires for him to be the strongest then he can just stay at TJV and outpower Jonas. Jumbo knew before the start of Tour that Vingegaard is the strongest, this is why his bike was #1.
 
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Rackham

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Rechtschreibfehler said:
If he went to Ineos though, it is not guaranteed that he'd end up in a much better situation given that they started with many captains this time around already and Bernal might also be a factor again. But ofc the chance to be clearly the strongest of them would be much greater.
Click to expand...

I think this comes down to what type of rider Roglič is (& what his weaknesses are), i.e. all Ineos needs to do is ride as a unit on the flat & deliver Roglič to the climbs with the favorites group. After that, it's a game of cat & mouse with Jonas V & Pogacar. No crazy Jumbo tactics, no green distractions, just a single goal aka GC.

He doesn't need a crushing dominant team or a choo-choo train, as the Vuelta has demonstrated again & again.

Luthor said:
The poster I quoted said in a previous post that it's better to leave for Ineos if Roglic is weaker than Jonas. Sivakov and Rodriguez are not bad helpers but they're not gonna make the difference, they are not GC threats. To crack Jonas or Pog and win without being stronger, he would need someone really good like Bernal/Hindley. If it requires for him to be the strongest then he can just stay at TJV and outpower Jonas. Jumbo knew before the start of Tour that Vingegaard is the strongest, this is why his bike was #1.
Click to expand...

Next year I don't think Roglič needs to crack anyone, i.e. as a third man, he need simply follow, counter when possible & perhaps benefit from marking between Pogacar & Vingegaard. But he doesn't need some Granon style demolition of Pogacar. That would get him nothing anyway because in order to win the TdF, he needs to beat both Pogacar & Vingegaard, i.e. not deliver the latter into yellow with a massive lead.

I know that's what Jumbo wants (again next year without doubt) but that's not how Roglič is going to win the TdF.
 
Jumbo Visma Fan :)

Jumbo Visma Fan :)

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Luthor said:
The poster I quoted said in a previous post that it's better to leave for Ineos if Roglic is weaker than Jonas. Sivakov and Rodriguez are not bad helpers but they're not gonna make the difference, they are not GC threats. To crack Jonas or Pog and win without being stronger, he would need someone really good like Bernal/Hindley. If it requires for him to be the strongest then he can just stay at TJV and outpower Jonas. Jumbo knew before the start of Tour that Vingegaard is the strongest, this is why his bike was #1.
Click to expand...
Yes, but with this current development of Rodriguez I see no reason why he can’t be a GC threat soon.
 
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Luthor

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Rackham said:
Has a team ever kept an unhappy rider in their ranks & sent him into the Tour to do a role he doesn't want? I don't think Jumbo would keep Roglič if he's demotivated & wants nothing to do with next year's Jumbo TdF with Vingegaard & WvA going for the double yellow & green again (or maybe WvA going for yellow? i.e. as Jonas Vingegaard himself suggested a few days ago he'd be happy to share leadership with WvA).

I also think it would be a really low move from Jumbo to literally say to Roglič "we're rich, who cares what you want, you stay".



All this speculation could end (or will end) when Rogla finds his missing Instagram login details (or his smartphone). I joke obviously but no updates = open speculation.

This is also how pro-sports works, i.e. when a rider is completely silent & says nothing about his team's TdF victory (no posts, no shares, no stories, no nothing), people can speculate regarding what that silence means. It's as likely he's simply focused on recovery with tunnel vision right now (& doesn't want distractions) as it is to suggest he told his agent to "get me the hell out of this team".

To be fair when reading books or articles about Primož Roglič he doesn't have an obsession with winning the Tour de France per se but he comes across as a rider who's absolutely committed to performing in that race & making an impression on it, i.e. 'the journey', not just the destination.

It's now questionable whether he has that freedom at Jumbo Visma.
Click to expand...
Jumbo can't afford that bad PR if they are forcing him to stay. Remember Groenewegen, they still wanted him for Giro but he wanted Tour. So they let him go. Same is gonna happen here if they don't find a compromise. But I think he's not gonna leave, TJV can't afford to lose him.

I think he is focused on his recovery 24/7 because the chances of him going 100 % for Vuelta are slim and he is telling his agent "make sure I will still have a good position in the team in terms of leadership". Also I feel like he might not be in the best mood, he was criticized publicly by a lot of people. Remember he was also silent for a bit after the Worlds fiasco with WvA and he made no Worlds post that time.

I think this silence is gonna end when we know if he goes for Vuelta or not.
Jumbo Visma Fan :) said:
Yes, but with this current development of Rodriguez I see no reason why he can’t be a GC threat soon.
Click to expand...
He has a lot of improving to do and we still don't know how good he can be in a 3-week race. Movistar wants him for 2023 anyway although it's not likely as he has a contract. Pog&Vinge didn't try to follow even Geraint, they know they are in a league of their own. If Rodriguez attacks, Kelderman & Almeida are gonna respond probably.
 
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Oldermanish

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Rackham said:
Has a team ever kept an unhappy rider in their ranks & sent him into the Tour to do a role he doesn't want? I don't think Jumbo would keep Roglič if he's demotivated & wants nothing to do with next year's Jumbo TdF with Vingegaard & WvA going for the double yellow & green again (or maybe WvA going for yellow? i.e. as Jonas Vingegaard himself suggested a few days ago he'd be happy to share leadership with WvA).

I also think it would be a really low move from Jumbo to literally say to Roglič "we're rich, who cares what you want, you stay".



All this speculation could end (or will end) when Rogla finds his missing Instagram login details (or his smartphone). I joke obviously but no updates = open speculation.

This is also how pro-sports works, i.e. when a rider is completely silent & says nothing about his team's TdF victory (no posts, no shares, no stories, no nothing), people can speculate regarding what that silence means. It's as likely he's simply focused on recovery with tunnel vision right now (& doesn't want distractions) as it is to suggest he told his agent to "get me the hell out of this team".

To be fair when reading books or articles about Primož Roglič he doesn't have an obsession with winning the Tour de France per se but he comes across as a rider who's absolutely committed to performing in that race & making an impression on it, i.e. 'the journey', not just the destination.

It's now questionable whether he has that freedom at Jumbo Visma.
Click to expand...
Actually; it would be fair if JV said that Jonas is our #1 at this point in time. We want you to recover and regain your form and, at that point, Jonas and WvA may have to concede to the best form. It's a long way to next July.
If they don't want any distractions it'd also be fair to say to him: " thanks for the memories but we are investing in the future. Good luck." It is pro sports and a particularly Darwinian sport at that. My guess is they don't want to say anything until he definitely is either in/out of the Vuelta. If he's in they'd be smart to be supportive. If he rides and kills it....they have a problem.
 
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Rackham

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Luthor said:
Jumbo can't afford that bad PR if they are forcing him to stay. Remember Groenewegen, they still wanted him for Giro but he wanted Tour. So they let him go. Same is gonna happen here if they don't find a compromise. But I think he's not gonna leave, TJV can't afford to lose him.

I think he is focused on his recovery 24/7 because the chances of him going 100 % for Vuelta are slim and he is telling his agent "make sure I will still have a good position in the team in terms of leadership". Also I feel like he might not be in the best mood, he was criticized publicly by a lot of people. Remember he was also silent for a bit after the Worlds fiasco with WvA and he made no Worlds post that time.

I think this silence is gonna end when we know if he goes for Vuelta or not.
Click to expand...

I think Jumbo going forwards will struggle with its #wintogether mantra & marketing.

They've just won the cycling equivalent of the football world cup. It's as big as it gets for the team but there's a sporting reality they cannot ignore (or escape) which dictates individual riders enjoy the spoils, i.e. two riders in particular were the beneficiaries in this TdF, aka obviously WvA & mainly Jonas Vingegaard. Just look at his rock star reception in Denmark, i.e. wild.

The Jumbo team was comprised of two new riders just happy to be in the TdF selection (Benoot & Laporte), one rider who's climbing Jumbo's ranks steadily as a domestique (Van Hooydonck, i.e. who recently signed a new contract as well), another rider who rediscovered some form this year after a couple of really sketchy seasons (Kruijswijk), a permanently happy rider who is always smiling (Kuss aka the ultimate mountain dom GOAT, although he does have personal ambitions despite what people think), Wout van Aert & Jonas Vingegaard.

They all got something out of #samenwinnen.

Roglič didn't, even before his crash (the balance of 'support received from the team' versus 'expected support given to the team' was not in his favor). In my mind he's the first of many to come as well, i.e. considering the new standing of the team in world cycling. Sky never managed to keep everyone happy (unless they dropped obscene amounts of cash on domestiques), so I doubt Jumbo will be able to either.

Cycling is a team sport with individual winners. Jumbo just cannot pretend Jonas Vingegaard's victory was "everyone's", i.e. this isn't the football world cup & translating Dutch total football (from the Cruyff era) into "total cycling" (their stated intent) will have serious limitations going forward. There's a contrast as I type between the message Richard Plugge wants to sell, i.e. "we win as a team", versus what's actually happening, i.e. which is Jonas Vingegaard's rise as a superstar & victory celebrations alone in Denmark. He won the TdF, his name will enter the history books, it's his victory.

I don't think Jumbo Visma can (or even should) convince Roglič to ride towards the goal of repeating that result next year.
 
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IndurainsTdF1994

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Rackham

Rackham

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Luthor said:
I'm still waiting for 1st August but with both Gazetta and Velonews saying no, I would say the chances are minimal.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1552409819021250562
View: https://twitter.com/cirogazzetta/status/1552409819021250562
Click to expand...

Without any actual stomping in a race, I guess transfer speculation will be all we get this season. But seriously, I think time will tell. I guess Gazzetta & Vélo News just picked up a phone & directly called some contacts. I'm not sure the usual denial says anything (because the contrary would have caused too much blablabla in the media).

In any case what's interesting to me is without the images of Roglič receiving his vertebrae treatment in a clinic being shared online & without the initial leak about his fractures, we'd be totally in the dark regarding his physical condition post-Tour. Jumbo have said zilch, nothing. It's kind of weak considering his standing in the team & the role he performed in the race (cracking Pogacar on stage 11).

Jumbo have the worst communication ever on these matters (like their silence over his knee injury in Itzulia), i.e. they're super quick to share good news but the bad stuff? Nah, borderline sweep it under a carpet.
 
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IndurainsTdF1994

IndurainsTdF1994

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Gargamel35 said:
Ok. Adding to conspiracy theories. 2 days after dr. Bračič posted on Instagram how he's healing Roglič injuries, his account is deleted.

Not just a removed post. Account gone. And he was a very frequent poster.
Click to expand...

Good catch! If the picture was posted without PR's approval, it is a serious breach of confidentiality and should have serious repercussions for Bracic.
 
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IndurainsTdF1994

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Skijumper Roglic fan said:
Clasica San Sebastian should be Primoz‘ favourite one day race. Sadly, he only rode it once.

He loves Basque Country, the profile suits him, and he‘s good on Basque/Spanish roads.

Maybe the time of the year is not perfect (tired or injured after TdF)…
Click to expand...

Perhaps too scared of Remco? Perhaps he doesn't want to be Benoot's superdom? ... ;)
 
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