Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Lequack]

Well, firstly, let's say a rider loosing momentum doesn't try to engage those already accellerating on the barriers. For once his front wheel is no longer ahead (and there is no space to move in a certain direction), any contact inevitably brings him down, as was the case

But is that an actual rule? That's what I am saying, there's a lot of things left to interpretation.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

No, it's not. Whenever he attacks, does he view it as the rest of the peloton falling back? The point of reference is naturally the bigger body, in this case the three other riders.

No, of course not. He views himself as the frame of reference there too, which is natural. We all do this. And he views himself as having come from behind and passed the riders ahead, rather than them falling back.

But it's not debatable. Roglic had fallen behind (at the moment of impact), when trying to overtake Wright, who was opening up his sprint whilst pinned on the barriers by a Roglic encrouching upon his, Wright's, legitimate space, and senselessly refused to give up the fight to his own dismay.

If you watch at full speed, Wright surges ahead for a split second. It’s so fast that Roglic might not have even perceived it.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568334380103262212

View: https://twitter.com/fred_wright0/status/1568334380103262212?t=DaSHM3h8TN1JnLtZiWNjPQ&s=19

Wright illustrates how someone handles adversity with class and dignity, which Roglic has done many times, but, in this case, did not.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

It's up to Remco as leader of Vuelta to decide now who is to blame.

Then Remco will ask for an opinion the real patron, Teddy.

 

[Extinction]

But is that an actual rule? That's what I am saying, there's a lot of things left to interpretation.

Look it up, but the moment a rider has lost the advantage in a sprint and tries to overtake a rival, if his front wheel then touches the rival...he goes down. It's really simple and the race jury had no qualms about Wright's comportment so I presume he was within the rules.

 

[hrotha]

Wright totally eviscerated Roglič and Jumbo by showing that much class in his response

Anyway, where was the helicopter?

 

[Extinction]

No, of course not. He views himself as the frame of reference there too, which is natural. We all do this. And he views himself as having come from behind and passed the riders ahead, rather than them falling back.

If you watch at full speed, Wright surges ahead for a split second. It’s so fast that Roglic might not have even perceived it.

Wright illustrates how someone handles adversity with class and dignity, which Roglic has done many times, but, in this case, did not.

Clearly Wright didn't percieve it and why should he have, as he was concentrated on the riders ahead not the one drifting behind? And he maintained his line. The point is that Roglic should have accepted that his attack was a success (albiet with a Remco arears because of a flat, or whatever, nonetheless no direct engagement) and prudently come home in the draft. Prudence is a hemaphrodite, you know, and looks into a mirror, because introspective and needs both femmine and masculine sensibility, and is not guided by unbridled passion as was Primoz in this instance.

 

[Netserk]

No, of course not. He views himself as the frame of reference there too, which is natural. We all do this. And he views himself as having come from behind and passed the riders ahead, rather than them falling back.

In your example, the riders ahead are the reference. The reference doesn't move. All movements are in relation to the reference. Like my speed when I'm walking in a train. I move, the train is stationary as a reference to my movement.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

In your example, the riders ahead are the reference. The reference doesn't move. All movements are in relation to the reference.

Fair play

 

[Extinction]

In your example, the riders ahead are the reference. The reference doesn't move. All movements are in relation to the reference. Like my speed when I'm walking in a train. I move, the train is stationary as a reference to my movement.

I now undestand the theory of relativity.

 

[Rollthedice]

"Just before the stage finished, and while the riders were all still on the road, Team Jumbo Visma released a statement on their website regarding the crash in the finishing straight on stage 16 which led to Primoz Roglic’s withdrawal from the race.

In it, the triple Vuelta winner and the team’s managing director insinuate heavily that our rider, Fred Wright, was to blame for the incident, and for the Slovenian’s injuries.
Team Bahrain Victorious stand by Fred.

It is our belief that this was a racing incident. Unfortunately crashes are a part of our sport and this isn’t the first, nor will it be the last, even though riders do their best to avoid them. The race footage supports this: our rider does not deviate from his racing line before the incident.

We also believe that if a team has certain feelings about an incident on the road, the place to take those up is with the commissaires after the stage rather than a statement online some days later.

It is predictable that releasing a statement such as this leads to vitriol and hate being expressed towards a fellow member of the peloton, which we find most disappointing. We sincerely hope that actions encouraging such behaviour online will cease to happen. Fred is kind, generous, and incredibly talented. He does not deserve the comments or sentiments that have been directed towards him in recent days."

 

[Escarabajo]

It's up to Remco as leader of Vuelta to decide now who is to blame.

This is how El Patron used to handle these issues back in the day!

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Here’s another video for everyone to project their predetermined stance onto:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568265808454844418

View: https://twitter.com/david_reiban/status/1568265808454844418?s=46&t=SXWZIACPseY9QvuL6hffZw

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

"The men brought me forward well, but I was just too much in jeopardy" - a Mike Teunissen quote about today's sprint on the Jumbo website.
Another little dig at Fred Wright?

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Remco just issued a statement that he has reason to believe that it was Fred Wright who sabotaged his bike a few minutes earlier.

 

[Ripper]

In a sprint when loosing momentum, you can't try to overtake a rider who is gaining speed and has gotten ahead in tight quarters. For the moment your front wheel gets behind, any contact inevitably brings you down. This was Roglic's fatal error.

Agreed! Roglic basically tried to slot in where there was no space and he was going at a materially slower speed. Poor judgment in the moment from being fully gassed (it happens).

 

[andrew_s]

Here’s another video for everyone to project their predetermined stance onto:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568265808454844418

View: https://twitter.com/david_reiban/status/1568265808454844418?s=46&t=SXWZIACPseY9QvuL6hffZw

If you stop that video immediately before van Poppel's front wheel reaches the edge of the shot, you can clearly see that Roglic's bars are in behind Wright's bars, meaning that Roglic moved sideways into Wright.
The impact would have been between Roglic's bar end or elbow, and Wright's thigh or hip, which is why Wright was barely disturbed by the collision and Roglic came down so fast.

Verdict: His own silly fault.

 

[Oldermanish]

lol, Wright rode right into him.

the general rule is that if you have your handlebars ahead of the rider behind then it is your position. Wright was never fully along side him until he knocked him off the bike. the uproar in here is like everyone just started following cycling this Monday.

Let's see...Primoz swung off the front of an echelon into a new line and let off the speed to be able to regain the draft at the back end of the echelon. He is already no longer on the line and can't barge into it. He's as welcome as ever to accelerate past everyone on his new line. He just didn't figure Wright was there but even if he did, it what sprinting universe does a rider yield to anyone in the final meters of a sprint? It's horribly dangerous to even attempt it with a predictable teammate let alone a free for all.

 

[jmdirt]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/primoz-roglic-blames-fred-wright-for-vuelta-a-espana-crash/

Oh well. No more mister nice guy!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN3P37LWXwY

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6ngThqMEs

 

[Carols]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1568334380103262212

View: https://twitter.com/fred_wright0/status/1568334380103262212?t=DaSHM3h8TN1JnLtZiWNjPQ&s=19

Classy response from Fred!
It's NOT Roglic's usual reaction. Could Primoz be concussed??? This is certainly not his normal behavior.

 

[hfer07]

I'm quite surprised about Primoz's statement on his accident, since he's quite known for not being a complainer at all when it comes down to misfortune, and all the awful ordeals he's faced over the years with bravely attitude, always with a positive, stoic, rational & calm way - so I tend to believe is rather the team asking him to do said claims - which in the end won't accomplish anything...

 

[CyclistAbi]

I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of responses on this subject. But ultimately it comes down to what people involved said. What Primož said is:

The crash was not caused by a bad road or a lack of safety but by a rider's behaviour. I don't have eyes on my back. Otherwise, I would have run wide. Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of my hands before I knew it."

Then i read the response from Bahrain. They are not disputing the claim Roglič made. They are saying it was a racing incident and for them ultimately it comes down to:

'The race footage supports this: our rider does not deviate from his racing line before the incident'

Hence for Bahrain as long as the sprinter doesn't deviate from his line he can pretty much do anything. Hence as Wright didn't deviate from his line. For them it doesn't matter if he came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

In this very thread we had a few attempts. Where only a frame out of the whole video was provided. Trying to prove some point. Based on that frame one could believe such claims. On the other hand a couple of full videos involving the accident were provided. Not only one frame. And in my opinion and based on that videos i feel it is safe to say Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

On why it is important and long over due. For Roglič to speak out. If you ride 40 km/h and someone throws a hay bale in front of you. You crash. If you ride 50 km/h and in a split second you move a couple of meters to the side. You crash. If you ride 60 km/h and in a split second somebody comes from behind and rides the handlebars out of your hands. You crash.

This has nothing to do with bike handling skills. Now as for hay bale. ASO didn't need to stand behind a hay bale. As for the other two accidents. Regardless of who stands behind who. There where always two cyclist involved. And in both cases the fault was always narrated towards Roglič. And his supposedly bad bike handling skills. Roglič never speaking about it only further cemented spreading that as facts. Roglič body checked himself, Roglič rode the handlebars out of Roglič ... Sure. Both accidents happened due to too aggressive Bahrain sprinters. That was the main cause. Next time back off. There are always two options available.

Bottom line i am fully behind you on this one Roglič. It was long overdue.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for people saying they don't have respect for you now. As you are complaining. Note that most of such people couldn't care less if a meteor would hit the peloton.

As long as it would be entertaining.

 

[Cookster15]

I watched a lot of videos and read a lot of responses on this subject. But ultimately it comes down to what people involved said. What Primož said is:



Then i read the response from Bahrain. They are not disputing the claim Roglič made. They are saying it was a racing incident and for them ultimately it comes down to:



Hence for Bahrain as long as the sprinter doesn't deviate from his line he can pretty much do anything. Hence as Wright didn't deviate from his line. For them it doesn't matter if he came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

In this very thread we had a few attempts. Where only a frame out of the whole video was provided. Trying to prove some point. Based on that frame one could believe such claims. On the other hand a couple of full videos involving the accident were provided. Not only one frame. And in my opinion and based on that videos i feel it is safe to say Wright came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands.

On why it is important and long over due. For Roglič to speak out. If you ride 40 km/h and someone throws a hay bale in front of you. You crash. If you ride 50 km/h and in a split second you move a couple of meters to the side. You crash. If you ride 60 km/h and in a split second somebody comes from behind and rides the handlebars out of your hands. You crash.

This has nothing to do with bike handling skills. Now as for hay bale. ASO didn't need to stand behind a hay bale. As for the other two accidents. Regardless of who stands behind who. There where always two cyclist involved. And in both cases the fault was always narrated towards Roglič. And his supposedly bad bike handling skills. Roglič never speaking about it only further cemented spreading that as facts. Roglič body checked himself, Roglič rode the handlebars out of Roglič ... Sure. Both accidents happened due to too aggressive Bahrain sprinters. That was the main cause. Next time back off. There are always two options available.

Bottom line i am fully behind you on this one Roglič. It was long overdue.

I get all this. But at end of the day Roglič didn’t stand to gain much my contesting that sprint. Time bonus when he is how far behind? It was easily avoidable if he didn’t put himself into a risky situation. I don’t get why Roglič didn’t back off and let the group including Wright fight for the spoils?

 

[CyclistAbi]

I get all this. But at end of the day Roglič didn’t stand to gain much my contesting that sprint. Time bonus when he is how far behind? It was easily avoidable if he didn’t put himself into a risky situation. I don’t get why Roglič didn’t back off?

Exactly. As soon as it happened everybody just assumed Roglič is to blame. What was he doing there in the first place. Obviously is his fault. He just has bad bike handling skills and crashes a lot. Surely it is his fault for daring to contest the sprint. If he would only move away. After doing the pull. Everything would be fine.

You see. That is why he had to speak his mind. As he was wrongly accused of the crime he didn't do. Nobody even considered Wright might have did something to contribute to the outcome. Nobody even entertained the thought it could be 50:50.

Roglič was to blame.

That is just wrong. If the other rider came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands. Then it can't be 100% Rogličes fault. He might have shot the sheriff but he for sure did not shoot the deputy.

 

[Cookster15]

Exactly. As soon as it happened everybody just assumed Roglič is to blame. What was he doing there in the first place. Obviously is his fault. He just has bad bike handling skills and crashes a lot. Surely it is his fault for daring to contest the sprint. If he would only move away. After doing the pull. Everything would be fine.

You see. That is why he had to speak his mind. As he was wrongly accused of the crime he didn't do. Nobody even considered Wright might have did something to contribute to the outcome. Nobody even entertained the thought it could be 50:50.

Roglič was to blame.

That is just wrong. If the other rider came from behind and rode the handlebars out of Rogličes hands. Then it can't be 100% Rogličes fault. He might have shot the sheriff but he for sure did not shoot the deputy.

Okay, well explained. But if it was me in Roglič’s situation I’d have been behind Wright with margin for error to avoid any clash of bars or other normal sprinting mishaps. It is always possible to reduce your odds of crashing. If you are a sprinter these risks are normal. But he was racing for GC to possibly win the Vuelta for a 4th consecutive time.