Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rackham]

He said yesterday no MSR for him. And he's going to Catalunya.

Chapeau Primoz, what a comeback!

He is not doing Msr and it makes little sense, there are plenty of better helpers in the team.

That would be stupid in light of the plan for Catalunya to be the Giro launching pad. Moreover, Wout doesn't need a strong team at MSR, but just the legs to come over the Cipressa and Poggio with the leaders, to then win the sprint at the end.

No you don't tinker like that with Giro prep IMO.

I wasn't saying he should do MSR, I mean personally I want him to win the Giro via whatever prep it takes & work on his race win statistics among the fellow cycling GOATS.

It's just I know how Merijn Zeeman can actually 'tinker' with rider schedules. Rog himself had a strange run of races early last year (carrying a knee injury as well) where he did a couple of no-name one day French semi classics, then Paris-Nice, then the Denain GP followed by Milan-San Remo only two days later.

In any case, this was a fantastic week & probably way, way beyond what Jumbo themselves thought was possible.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Some stats:

Tony Martin 67 Wins
Alberto Contador 68 Wins
Primož Roglič 68 Wins

Unfortunately, not all wins are created equal. This was a great performance after the surgery!

 

[Berniece]

What an amazing comeback and race for him, he should ride the TDF honestly. Why would you have such an amazing rider at that age ride the Giro

 

[Extinction]

What an amazing comeback and race for him, he should ride the TDF honestly. Why would you have such an amazing rider at that age ride the Giro

Well apparently because Vingegaard is the better climber. Now the way Roglic usually wins uphill is from a small lead group in the sprint. But to beat Pogacar at the Tour you have to significantly drop him in the mountains at some point, which I don't see Primoz doing.

On the other hand, if his form continues to improve and Vingegaard doesn't raise his level considerably, I could see Jumbo-Visma bringing Roglic to the Tour with a similar two leaders plan until the road dictates the hierarchy.

 

[Divergence]

Well apparently because Vingegaard is the better climber. Now the way Roglic usually wins uphill is from a small lead group in the sprint. But to beat Pogacar at the Tour you have to significantly drop him in the mountains at some point, which I don't see Primoz doing.

On the other hand, if his form continues to improve and Vingegaard doesn't raise his level considerably, I could see Jumbo-Visma bringing Roglic to the Tour with a similar two leaders plan until the road dictates the hierarchy.

He dropped him at Col de la Loze, he could do it again.

 

[Extinction]

He dropped him at Col de la Loze, he could do it again.

That was 3 years ago. No way an in form Pogacar gets dropped by him on that mountain now. This is where I think Roglic the GT climber has his limits.

 

[Extinction]

He dropped him at Col de la Loze, he could do it again.

That was 3 years ago. No way an in form Pogacar gets dropped by him on that mountain now. This is where I think Roglic the GT climber has his limits.

 

[Berniece]

Well apparently because Vingegaard is the better climber. Now the way Roglic usually wins uphill is from a small lead group in the sprint. But to beat Pogacar at the Tour you have to significantly drop him in the mountains at some point, which I don't see Primoz doing.

On the other hand, if his form continues to improve and Vingegaard doesn't raise his level considerably, I could see Jumbo-Visma bringing Roglic to the Tour with a similar two leaders plan until the road dictates the hierarchy.

I have no doubt that we’ll see a much better vingegaard at the TDF, Jumbo knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to training and form peaking. They just decided he doesn’t need to be at 100% during spring, with the idea that Pogacar might have issues in the last week because he is too much in form during the year.

 

[wheresmybrakes]

What an amazing comeback and race for him, he should ride the TDF honestly. Why would you have such an amazing rider at that age ride the Giro

You trying to get rid of Remco's opposition? lol

 

[Extinction]

I have no doubt that we’ll see a much better vingegaard at the TDF, Jumbo knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to training and form peaking. They just decided he doesn’t need to be at 100% during spring, with the idea that Pogacar might have issues in the last week because he is too much in form during the year.

Yes, that is likely Jumbo-Visma's plan with Jonas.

 

[Oldermanish]

Well apparently because Vingegaard is the better climber. Now the way Roglic usually wins uphill is from a small lead group in the sprint. But to beat Pogacar at the Tour you have to significantly drop him in the mountains at some point, which I don't see Primoz doing.

On the other hand, if his form continues to improve and Vingegaard doesn't raise his level considerably, I could see Jumbo-Visma bringing Roglic to the Tour with a similar two leaders plan until the road dictates the hierarchy.

I'd normally agree with you on both parts but there's room for Roglic to expand his abilities on long climbs. Yesterday's stage was a series of ridiculous intervals and he passed that test.
As for the Tour his Giro commitment will be a serious enough challenge that he may not have enough legs for both, at least not to seriously contest leadership. He'd still be a strong role player if that suits the program. He may be better off with the Giro/Vuelta double and not do the Tour at all.
I'd love to see him win the Tour like most fans.

 

[Rackham]

I have no doubt that we’ll see a much better vingegaard at the TDF, Jumbo knows exactly what they are doing when it comes to training and form peaking. They just decided he doesn’t need to be at 100% during spring, with the idea that Pogacar might have issues in the last week because he is too much in form during the year.

Vingegaard went into Paris-Nice to win the race.

Yeah he'll be better in the summer etc. but he was riding to win, even against Pogacar on current form. So... coming third (even behind Gaudu) won't be something they planned. This is no critique of Vingegaard either, I'm just saying he was team leader & their goal was victory - not form building for the summer.

Vingegaard needs to ride away from Pogacar in July all by himself, aka drop him off the wheel. He's not going to outsprint him & there's only one puny little ITT. The TdF 2023 requires a form jump beyond Pog's current level.

 

[Extinction]

I'd normally agree with you on both parts but there's room for Roglic to expand his abilities on long climbs. Yesterday's stage was a series of ridiculous intervals and he passed that test.
As for the Tour his Giro commitment will be a serious enough challenge that he may not have enough legs for both, at least not to seriously contest leadership. He'd still be a strong role player if that suits the program. He may be better off with the Giro/Vuelta double and not do the Tour at all.
I'd love to see him win the Tour like most fans.

Sure, it all depends on how much the Giro tires him, which, especially given the frightful last week culminating with the Tre Cime di Lavaredo and the mountan TT, should be considerable.

I think Roglic's explosiveness on mountaintop finishes hinders his ability to sustain longer attacks; that and psychologically since he knows he's got the advantage, except against Pogacar, who is evenly matched with him in such scenarios, Primoz banks on just getting to the top and let his sprint nab him the stage. However, fundamentally on long climbs I don't see Roglic having the ability to attack say with 6 km to go and building a minute + lead by the finish on his own.

 

[Gargamel35]

Vinge is a one race per season guy. He can peak very very high but for a very short period of time. So he can go to TdF and be competitive. But it think he still doesn't have a chance 1 on 1 against healthy Pogačar who doesn't spend energy with 2:1 Vinge, Roglič attack like last year.

Pog and Rog have insane base level and can be competitive all year long.

I think JV made a huge mistake in going all in with Vinge only for TdF. He can't win anything all year long and he can't win TdF against Pogačar 1:1 any more.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Sure, it all depends on how much the Giro tires him, which, especially given the frightful last week culminating with the Tre Cime di Lavaredo and the mountan TT, should be considerable.

I think Roglic's explosiveness on mountaintop finishes hinders his ability to sustain longer attacks; that and psychologically since he knows he's got the advantage, except against Pogacar, who is evenly matched with him in such scenarios, Primoz banks on just getting to the top and let his sprint nab him the stage. However, fundamentally on long climbs I don't see Roglic having the ability to attack say with 6 km to go and building a minute + lead by the finish on his own.

Except he did that in Vuelta 2021 Stage 17.

 

[Extinction]

Except he did that in Vuelta 2021 Stage 17.

But doesn't that seem the exception to the rule?

 

[Elos Anjos]

But doesn't that seem the exception to the rule?

Why would he risk depleting himself if he can harness bonus seconds while riding in a pack?
I wouldn't put that as a "rule". It's a riding style with which he is comfortable with and in which he excels. That doesn't mean he doesn't have other resources.

 

[Extinction]

Why would he risk depleting himself if he can harness bonus seconds while riding in a pack?
I wouldn't put that as a "rule". It's a riding style with which he is comfortable with and in which he excels. That doesn't mean he doesn't have other resources.

I did suggest that, yes, it's his style to not expend more than necessary to win. And that style cost him dearly when he didn't have enough of a lead to keep his yellow jersey on the penultimate stage of the 2020 Tour.

I still think, however, that having such an explosive uphill finish, hinders his ability to sustain long attacks. And that's what it's gonna take to beat a healthy Pogacar at the Tour me thinks. So in this sense, I believe he has limited resources as a mountain goat.

 

[Divergence]

I believe all these comments about what Rogla's strengths are and whether he is not good on long climbs are all lacking perspective. I believe the last time he tackled a long climb where he was not hurt and anywhere near his best shape was Covadonga at the Vuelta, and he destroyed everybody by attacking with 50k to go or so. Therefore, let us hope he stays healthy and let us enjoy his performances in the races to come.

 

[Extinction]

I believe all these comments about what Rogla's strengths are and whether he is not good on long climbs are all lacking perspective. I believe the last time he tackled a long climb where he was not hurt and anywhere near his best shape was Covadonga at the Vuelta, and he destroyed everybody by attacking with 50k to go or so. Therefore, let us hope he stays healthy and let us enjoy his performances in the races to come.

Well we will see how much perspective is lacking, but he certainly has not dropped his main rivals for big time on the climbs at past Tours or the Giro. And I think he will need to do that at the next Giro, considering the amount of km of TTing, which should favor Evenepoel. But we'll see.

 

[Gregor_Slovenia]

I read with interest all your thoughts on last few pages. It is interesting that also mailny comments in Slovenia under the news of Roglič's wins are about TDF and stuff; he should do it. I personally think that this is not the rigth approach. Giro is such a big race, I really do not think that winning TDF is so much more than winning Giro. He clearly made a choice this year for Giro to be his primary goal in the first part of the season. Hopefully he will be healthy after Giro, and honestly there is enough time to recover for TDF if you are healthy and without injuries, so maybe than TDF going as a "domestique" and let the road tell us if he will be just domestique. But riders that did not win Giro in history, just TDF, they are clearly missing something in their palmares. Also, I think that he is really looking forward to that tough Tarvisio stage to Lussario ITT, he said that he knows the hill only from skiing, so it will be interesting to ride a bike. And there will be thousands of Slovenian fans, specially if Primož will be racing for pink. And he will have for the first time in his team Slovenian speaking domestique; Tratnik, which will be great.

 

[Extinction]

I read with interest all your thoughts on last few pages. It is interesting that also mailny comments in Slovenia under the news of Roglič's wins are about TDF and stuff; he should do it. I personally think that this is not the rigth approach. Giro is such a big race, I really do not think that winning TDF is so much more than winning Giro. He clearly made a choice this year for Giro to be his primary goal in the first part of the season. Hopefully he will be healthy after Giro, and honestly there is enough time to recover for TDF if you are healthy and without injuries, so maybe than TDF going as a "domestique" and let the road tell us if he will be just domestique. But riders that did not win Giro in history, just TDF, they are clearly missing something in their palmares. Also, I think that he is really looking forward to that tough Tarvisio stage to Lussario ITT, he said that he knows the hill only from skiing, so it will be interesting to ride a bike. And there will be thousands of Slovenian fans, specially if Primož will be racing for pink. And he will have for the first time in his team Slovenian speaking domestique; Tratnik, which will be great.

Indeed the Giro is a great addition to one's palmarès, unfortunately the shear magnitudine of the Tour, in terms of how much cycling gains in publicly and revenues from the French GT, dwarfs la corsa rosa. Still I think all the greats should have at least one Giro among their list of triumphs. The trouble in today's cycling is getting potential Tour winners to make the Giro a big objective.

 

[hfer07]

View: https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6ZtfZp8ID54YUne0/giphy.gif

 

[Lequack]

For a guy who got here on a last notice, unshaved, just to test his legs a bit. Well he sure did a good job. Legs tested.

 

[johnymax]

The legend of Rogla continues to grow. He's just passed Chris Froome on the PCS all time riders ranking. Next on the list is Nibali. He could surpass him by the end of Catalunya. Then he should invite him to see his trophy cabinet. Or maybe wait until the end of the season. I bet there is still room for some more nice trophies in the near future.