Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Gargamel35]

Ving is not top 5. You have to be able to do more than one thing to be a top 5 rider. Pidcock is on the list.

Vinge is no where near top 5 at all. He did basically nothing but win one GT with huge help of 2 top 5 riders in the world. I find riders that can win more then one type of race much much better.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Ving is not top 5. You have to be able to do more than one thing to be a top 5 rider. Pidcock is on the list.

Vingo is the current winner of the biggest race in the world. And he won it in a great style (he also gets good results in shorter stage races albeit far from his Tour level). The top5 is very good: all are phenoms in some way. Judging by recent achievements Teddy & Remco are top2. It almost feels like new Merckx and Hinault arrived in the same ganeration,

 

[Elos Anjos]

Legend Rogla!

 

[Peyroteo94]

Palmares don't defind legends. He's already one of the greats if you like it or not.

It helps to define. And is not the way he rides who make him a all time great. He is a mountain sprinter 99% of times. But we agree to disagree.
That's the beauty of different people. We don't have all the same opinion

 

[Sciatic]

Sorry but we can't vulgarize the word Legend. He isn't yet a guy who will be remember as one of the greats. He never dominated an era, his palmares is not good enough yet.

Legends come in different forms, and the way the word is used today (at least in English) speaks to having some unique quality as well as it does to greatness. You could argue that simply going from being an elite ski jumper to winning GTs and being from Slovenia (anon-traditional cycling power) to boot is pretty legendary.

 

[Gargamel35]

It helps to define. And is not the way he rides who make him a all time great. He is a mountain sprinter 99% of times. But we agree to disagree.
That's the beauty of different people. We don't have all the same opinion

It's your opinion he's riding style is not good enough or interesting. By saying he's 99% mountain sprinter means you don't know him or his style at all. Most people find it incredibly interesting and versatile.

 

[Oldermanish]

It helps to define. And is not the way he rides who make him a all time great. He is a mountain sprinter 99% of times. But we agree to disagree.
That's the beauty of different people. We don't have all the same opinion

Actually, it doesn't help to "define" unless the analyst is paid to do it. As for Primoz, if he cares at all about his "legend" status he might accept the opinions of his peers whom he seems to respect in general. What we speculate, hope for or against doesn't seem to matter to him or Pogacar. Here's a list: Which people/riders spend the most time worrying about their future or should?

1.Remco
2.Remco's agent
3.Remco's new wife
4.Remco's teammates
5.Belgians

IMO for a competitor it isn't productive to or healthy to fixate on rivals. The last rider to make that his brand was Armstrong. It drove him to do many of the things that wrecked his faux career and his "status". He still does it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Pogačar is the clear number 1

Vingegård, Remco, Roglič and Van Aert complete the top5 under no specific order though Remco and Vingegård were the best last year out of these, so they can round out the podium.

So i guess you have them listed at:

Pogačar
Evenepoel
Vingegaard
van Aert
Roglič

Fair enough.

Before the season started i checked UCI rankings and likely they got hacked or something. Roglič was not listed. Went down to around 20th. Before realizing something is not right here. I am sure that it will get sorted out ASAP. Then i took a look at some lists where Roglič was listed outside top 5. So i guess after Rogličes first race for majority of people he is now listed somewhere in between No.1 to No.5. We can work with that. Especially as in less then two weeks time Roglič might move up on such lists substantially.

Fingers crossed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It helps to define. And is not the way he rides who make him a all time great. He is a mountain sprinter 99% of times. But we agree to disagree.
That's the beauty of different people. We don't have all the same opinion

So a mountain sprinter and not a legend? Sorry but this two things are anything but mutually exclusive. It's like saying he is GOAT and hence he can't be a legend.

Next time use some more realistic goal. Such as saying Roglič can't be a legend due to not beating Contador, Froome, Nibali, Valverde, Pogačar, Evenepoel ... And that will after make total sense.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Mountain sprinter, multiple GT winner, multiple GT podium contender, Olympic ITT champion, monument winner, likely best week long stage racer in history, cobbler, ski jumper ... and Primož. Father of Lev and Aleks.

If that is not a legend as a cyclist and as a person then nothing is.

 

[noob]

He posted it himself on Instagrem

I couldn't find it myself. Thanks. I'll try again

 

[CyclistAbi]

I couldn't find it myself. Thanks. I'll try again

You have to click "next" as single publication contains more pictures.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Peyroteo94 seemed like a Roglic fan in the Bernal thread.

 

[Gargamel35]

You know them a lot... cheers

Keep calculating 99% uphill short sprint wins out of 69. 17 of them where ITT wins by the way. Others couple flat sprints. Others high mountain solo wins. Couple decending solo wins. Good luck.

 

[Oldermanish]

I know his style and if we make a study this year, we will see in december the large majority of his wins will be mountain sprints against a reduced group pf cyclists.

Well of course it would be his style if he had competitors that paced him to a sprint finish. As for reducing the number of cyclists in the group; that's what a rider of his caliber can do. Not sure he's unique in that regard. Pogacar, Remco, Jonas also finish solo and ahead of a small group. They just don't sprint then.
Most of them can win a sprint from a small group on flat ground, too. Is that a style?

 

[Oldermanish]

Not balls. Smart man can have balls. Troll is just stupid.

They have stooopid balls. Sorry; I couldn't resist a quick juvenile detour from the deep analysis of rider attributes.
Rider + Speed = Fast.

 

[bNator]

Re Remco vs Roglic as GC riders. Let’s not forget that the biggest trophy in Remco’s cabinet in terms of the guys he’s beaten in stage races is probably Mas. Roglič has beaten them all on at least one occasion (including Pogacar on several) while they were in top shape. apart from that, even last year’s Vuelta it was Roglic who dropped Remco the last 3 times they have dropped each other so I would say for the time being, Roglic should be considered the better GC rider.

 

[BullsFan22]

If healthy, I still think Roglič can win the TDF.

 

[Oldermanish]

If healthy, I still think Roglič can win the TDF.

Me, too. But getting a real, rested opportunity to do that is complicated. Here's a theoretical scenario: if Jonas had a serious setback and was potentially unable to do the Tour but could recover from the Vuelta. Would JV find a way to move Primoz from the Giro to the Tour without serious repercussions? Faking injuries has been the tried and true way to redirect in the past.
Of course he would be avoiding Remco....

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

To be perfectly honest, i fear that ship has sailed. The hard truth is, that in 5 seasons, ever since he became a genuine GT contender, he has not won the Giro or the Tour. If he doesn't crash out, he fumbles it in another way. He eventually crashed himself out of the Vuelta '22 as well, don't forget. He would probably also have to change teams, because while Vingegaard doesn't seem to have the same high base form as the other big names, his peak form seems to eclipse that of Roglic. I think he would need Nibali's voodoo dolls to pull it off now.

 

[Extinction]

Re Remco vs Roglic as GC riders. Let’s not forget that the biggest trophy in Remco’s cabinet in terms of the guys he’s beaten in stage races is probably Mas. Roglič has beaten them all on at least one occasion (including Pogacar on several) while they were in top shape. apart from that, even last year’s Vuelta it was Roglic who dropped Remco the last 3 times they have dropped each other so I would say for the time being, Roglic should be considered the better GC rider.

Indeed for the time being, as the future holds what it may. But when Roglic beat Pog, Tadej was 20! And when he dropped Remco, Evenepoel had crashed hard previously. Roglic has ridden multiple GCs, is a veteran, so how can a comparison in this sense even be made? Let's wait 5 years.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Some opposite views are always good for discussion. In my opinion we can't say Roglič is a mere "mountain sprinter". Although if he would be, that would be more then enough. It's like saying Pogi always attacks. Hence he can't become a legend. Such argument just makes no sense at all. Anyway. The number of ITTs Rogla won and in the way he won some of them. His first Tour win was a solo attack involving both ascend and descend on another level. The way he cracked Pogi, long range attack at Itzulia, Bernal at Vuelta, going from far out, Evenepoel at Vuelta, going from far out, the number of close mano a mano fights he had during his career so far. Involving all sorts of competition. There is a reason on why Mas feels comfortable sprinting with Pogi but not Rogla. Jonas for example is lacking power, when it comes to initiating an attack. That is on why Rogla cracked Pogi at Tour 2022. There is just no match to Rogla, when he decides to burn a match. Maybe Alaphilippe peaking. Still Roglič won a monument against Alaphilippe while in top shape. The number of week long stage races and the variety of ways Roglič won them. That is just next level. And for sure there is much more than that to it. So the idea Roglič is a mere "mountain sprinter". That s just silly.

But i do agree that in 2023 season JV should force Rogla to throw bike over the line as much as possible. Catalunya for example should tell if JV needs to bring Kuss to Giro. It's such a climbers oriented race. Giro on the other hand should suit Roglič perfectly. During ITTs to tackle pure climbers. And then when climbing to tackle the rest. That is just the range Roglič has. To tackle races in such dominant way.

 

[Extinction]

It's like saying Pogi always attacks. Hence he can't become a legend.

Lol. This is a no-sense phrase. Of course the guys that make long-range attacks in the mountains, from Coppi down the line, become legends. It's heroicism personified and the sport at it's most romantic. Mountain sprinters not so much.

 

[SHAD0W93]

I bet roglic will do the tour after the giro. Kruijswijk and Kuss is not enough to make the race hard in the mountains.

Jumbo could also want a diverse team for all terrains to cover and potentially put time on their rivals. You don’t need that crazy of a mountain train when UAE and FDJ will help and Kruijswijk and Kuss can be completely saved for the mountains.

Some opposite views are always good for discussion. In my opinion we can't say Roglič is a mere "mountain sprinter". Although if he would be, that would be more then enough. It's like saying Pogi always attacks. Hence he can't become a legend. Such argument just makes no sense at all. Anyway. The number of ITTs Rogla won and in the way he won some of them. His first Tour win was a solo attack involving both ascend and descend on another level. The way he cracked Pogi, long range attack at Itzulia, Bernal at Vuelta, going from far out, Evenepoel at Vuelta, going from far out, the number of close mano a mano fights he had during his career so far. Involving all sorts of competition. There is a reason on why Mas feels comfortable sprinting with Pogi but not Rogla. Jonas for example is lacking power, when it comes to initiating an attack. That is on why Rogla cracked Pogi at Tour 2022. There is just no match to Rogla, when he decides to burn a match. Maybe Alaphilippe peaking. Still Roglič won a monument against Alaphilippe while in top shape. The number of week long stage races and the variety of ways Roglič won them. That is just next level. And for sure there is much more than that to it. So the idea Roglič is a mere "mountain sprinter". That s just silly.

@Extinction was referring to Roglic attacking from afar for the GC in a Grand Tour for GC. Not for a stage when he is in no contention.m, not for a week race, and the counter attack with Bernal was already stated with Roglic not helping as much until the Valley when he had no reason to worry of the pair being caught. That’s why they said Roglic is mostly a mountain sprinter.

 

[Gargamel35]

Jumbo could also want a diverse team for all terrains to cover and potentially put time on their rivals. You don’t need that crazy of a mountain train when UAE and FDJ will help and Kruijswijk and Kuss can be completely saved for the mountains.


@Extinction was referring to Roglic attacking from afar for the GC in a Grand Tour for GC. Not for a stage when he is in no contention.m, not for a week race, and the counter attack with Bernal was already stated with Roglic not helping as much until the Valley when he had no reason to worry of the pair being caught. That’s why they said Roglic is mostly a mountain sprinter.

It's still ***. Doesn't matter how you try to wrap it.