Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Samu Cuenca]

 

[QueenStagiaire]

It ended after Stage 1 and Remco won the Giro. Anyone who says otherwise is blind to the truth.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yes, he’s had bad days but also many crashes and always bounced back to a high level either in the Olympics, Vuelta or week stage races. Ever since the Tour crash last year he has been hanging on and sprinting away at the end for fans to say he’s building form and recovering from the crash. Roglic hasn’t returned to the form he had precrash. Roglic also looked great in those races before he had his bad day. He hasn’t looked great at all so far in this race, or this year.

There’s no Wright anxiety, just stating a fact of what I would say if I “wanted to rub salt in the wound” as you stated I was doing. I’m not the one that needed a long break from cycling and the forum after the crash. I would also think it’s a known fact how Roglic and Evenepoel fans act on the forum towards their favorites and opposition. Though I don’t know if you missed any posts since your sabbatical and coming back. You can always go back and read past posts.

And no, if you see my past posts I didn’t jump into any discussion with his fans “guns blazing”, only after one of the fans initial posts. Unless you think the statement about the stomp and afterwards is “guns blazing”. In this case, responding to you after stating what I think will happen only to be told l was rubbing salt in the wound. All I’ve been saying since the start is Roglic isn’t going to be as strong as he’s being hyped up to be, that I think Evenepoel will win a closely contested race, and Almedia is being overlooked and stronger than thought.

Regarding the first bolded, I have wondered about this as well. However, IMO if you’re going to argue that his form hasn’t been the same since x, I would say it was actually the spring campaign of 2022 before the Tour. He hurt his knee in one of the events, maybe Paris-Nice and had to be saved by Wout. Took some time off I think then was clearly a bit below Jonas on the big Dauphine MTF, though they did set a crazy time. He has not been as good since then, with some exceptions like Lo Port, which was an insane performance dropping Remco. I agree that he has not been completely convincing since 2021 Vuelta. There have always been reasons for that, as there are now in this Giro (that crash was tough luck and without it I doubt he would have been dropped today), but at the end of the day, results are what they are and time is short so not sure he will buck this trend sadly. We will see though. He could easily still win this Giro.

In regard to the second, people love to say this, but in my opinion Rakham and Logic are two smart, passionate, mostly rational partisans who sometimes let their biases guide their assessments and are two sides of the same coin, CyclistAbi is the for equivalent of chicken soup in a Roglic bowl, or possibly Roglic himself, but certainly not malicious. Most of the other Roglic fans like myself seem pretty clear sighted IMO about Roglic’s weaknesses and failures (e.g., Fred Wright), but not disrespectful toward others. Some Remco fans on the other hand seem so certain that Remco is not just good but the greatest ever that it interferes with their analysis and discourse IMO. Anyways, just my two cents.

Edit: I too at times let my biases impact my assessments, though it doesn’t always run in my favor of my preferred rider.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So what's next for Primoz? Carrying bidons for the Fisherman at the Tour or back to ski-jumping?

 

[Lorzenz08]

So what's next for Primoz? Carrying bidons for the Fisherman at the Tour or back to ski-jumping?

4th Vuelta

 

[SHAD0W93]

Regarding the first bolded, I have wondered about this as well. However, IMO if you’re going to argue that his form hasn’t been the same since x, I would say it was actually the spring campaign of 2022 before the Tour. He hurt his knee in one of the events, maybe Paris-Nice and had to be saved by Wout. Took some time off I think then was clearly a bit below Jonas on the big Dauphine MTF, though they did set a crazy time. He has not been as good since then, with some exceptions like Lo Port, which was an insane performance dropping Remco. I agree that he has not been completely convincing since 2021 Vuelta. There have always been reasons for that, as there are now in this Giro (that crash was tough luck and without it I doubt he would have been dropped today), but at the end of the day, results are what they are and time is short so not sure he will buck this trend sadly. We will see though. He could easily still win this Giro.

In regard to the second, people love to say this, but in my opinion Rakham and Logic are two smart, passionate, mostly rational partisans who sometimes let their biases guide their assessments and are two sides of the same coin, CyclistAbi is the for equivalent of chicken soup in a Roglic bowl, or possibly Roglic himself, but certainly not malicious. Most of the other Roglic fans like myself seem pretty clear sighted IMO about Roglic’s weaknesses and failures (e.g., Fred Wright), but not disrespectful toward others. Some Remco fans on the other hand seem so certain that Remco is not it’s good but the greatest ever that it interferes with their analysis and discourse IMO. Anyways, just my two cents.

Edit: I too at times let my biases impact my assessments, though it doesn’t always run in my favor of my preferred rider.

That could be the start of it as well, either way I don’t think he’s been 100% or close to it for awhile.

From my view there’s the fans negative takes on Evenepoel (with it going both ways), Mas, Almeida, Thomas, and the other favorites he faces. Of course some of that is tongue in cheek, some serious, and some hyping up Roglic for the win since he’s their favorite (like I do with Cav). I think that’s normal. But when they start repeatedly saying “Roglic would never lose time to so and so” or “so and so isn’t in Roglic’s level” is when I have started getting annoyed by it all. On top of the stuff with Wright and accusing Evenepoel of faking a flat and Covid.

I like Roglic, I thought and wanted him to win the Tour in 2020 and was glad he came back and won the Olympic TT despite a lot stating he shouldn’t go. I’ve voted for him to win in a lot of polls but he is turning into Mahomes (NFL) for me.

 

[Blanco]

If it's a bad day, then it's good.
If it's because of the crash, than it's not bad.
If it's his current level, then it's bad.

We'll see on Thursday, if he ships more time there than it's game over. But if he gains, we're back baby.

 

[johnymax]

I had a feelling in the last few days Roglič wasn't at his best, so I didn't post here as I really didn't know what to expect for today's stage. I feared something like this could happen...
But you know what, I don't think it's over for the overall victory. He wasn't looking bad till about 4km to go. I believe this kind of climb, very long with gradients at about 6-8%, is the worst type of climb for him. I don't know why, but even in his best Vueltas he had trouble matching MAL and Mas on this type of climbs.

Stages 18 and 19 suit him better IMO. On stage 18 the team should go all in for the stage win. Launch Rogla at about 2km before the top of Coi and let him cook. He can make a difference there and show us if he has enough strength to win the Giro.

Cmon Rogla, you can do it! It was never supposed to be easy...

And don't forget...there will be thousands and thousands of slovenian fans cheering for him on the roads of those three decisive stages.

 

[bNator]

That could be the start of it as well, either way I don’t think he’s been 100% or close to it for awhile.

From my view there’s the fans negative takes on Evenepoel (with it going both ways), Mas, Almeida, Thomas, and the other favorites he faces. Of course some of that is tongue in cheek, some serious, and some hyping up Roglic for the win since he’s their favorite (like I do with Cav). I think that’s normal. But when they start repeatedly saying “Roglic would never lose time to so and so” or “so and so isn’t in Roglic’s level” is when I have started getting annoyed by it all. On top of the stuff with Wright and accusing Evenepoel of faking a flat and Covid.

I like Roglic, I thought and wanted him to win the Tour in 2020 and was glad he came back and won the Olympic TT despite a lot stating he shouldn’t go. I’ve voted for him to win in a lot of polls but he is turning into Mahomes (NFL) for me.

Well you could see this in another light, perhaps… I think Roglic’s fans were rightfully insulted when suggested Almeida is in his league. I mean comparing their respective achievements in stage races, Almeida does not come close at the moment. Of course it’s possible that Almeida progressed or Roglic regressed (or most likely both) and now the situation might be completely different. Same goes for Thomas. He last showed something extraordinary in GT racing 4 years ago. He was not in the same league as Rogla prior to this Giro (even though me personally as a part time G fan, I was always a little bit afraid of him).

I think Roglic fans always respected his opponents once they proved they could match him. Carapaz comes to mind, for instance. No underestimation there. I think you will find the fans will adapt quickly to the new reality and “accept” Almeida and Thomas to his league, just as they were accepting the fact Roglic is no longer in the league of Pogacar and Vinge. We may now have to adapt our expectations from Rogla and hope for extraordinary performances rather than expect them, but up to this point, there was no real reason for that in my opinion.

But are we now expected to just agree everybody is in Rogla’s league? Since 2019 Vuelta, he was only beaten by Pogacar in GTs he completed.

As for Remco, we’ll that is a special case. Rogla’s fans reaction is more or less just self defence to their arrogance…

 

[SHAD0W93]

Well you could see this in another light, perhaps… I think Roglic’s fans were rightfully insulted when suggested Almeida is in his league. I mean comparing their respective achievements in stage races, Almeida does not come close at the moment. Of course it’s possible that Almeida progressed or Roglic regressed (or most likely both) and now the situation might be completely different. Same goes for Thomas. He last showed something extraordinary in GT racing 4 years ago. He was not in the same league as Rogla prior to this Giro (even though me personally as a part time G fan, I was always a little bit afraid of him).

I think Roglic fans always respected his opponents once they proved they could match him. Carapaz comes to mind, for instance. No underestimation there. I think you will find the fans will adapt quickly to the new reality and “accept” Almeida and Thomas to his league, just as they were accepting the fact Roglic is no longer in the league of Pogacar and Vinge. We may now have to adapt our expectations from Rogla and hope for extraordinary performances rather than expect them, but up to this point, there was no real reason for that in my opinion.

But are we now expected to just agree everybody is in Rogla’s league? Since 2019 Vuelta, he was only beaten by Pogacar in GTs he completed.

As for Remco, we’ll that is a special case. Rogla’s fans reaction is more or less just self defence to their arrogance…

And it could be unfair to say both are favorites if Roglic was younger. But he’s older now and Almeida has progressed each year, and had great form last year before getting sick. On top of performing well in that first TT and a good second TT should have told more that he was in good form, especially when we heard that he’s regressed in that department.

I do agree with the last part, it’s a dog eat dog world for both sides.

But Rolgic is getting older and unfortunately has had a lot of crashes. Sometimes the window closes and the other riders catch up. Or he comes back stronger and stomps leading to much jubilation and egg on my/other’s face, we shall soon find out.

 

[bNator]

And it could be unfair to say both are favorites if Roglic was younger. But he’s older now and Almeida has progressed each year, and had great form last year before getting sick. On top of performing well in that first TT and a good second TT should have told more that he was in good form, especially when we heard that he’s regressed in that department.

I do agree with the last part, it’s a dog eat dog world for both sides.

But Rolgic is getting older and unfortunately has had a lot of crashes. Sometimes the window closes and the other riders catch up. Or he comes back stronger and stomps leading to much jubilation and egg on my/other’s face, we shall soon find out.

Eventually, those who claim a certain rider is overrated, will turn out to be correct - due to age. And this year, it looks like that will be the case for Rogla.

As far as Almeida is concerned, I think his second TT was even a bit subpar (I was not familiar with him regressing in TT) being behind Roglic who also underperformed. He has beaten Roglic in Tirreno for instance so that was a bit of a negative trend. And also got dropped by Roglic on stage 8... Assumption Rogla would take him in the mountains in 3rd week was not that unfounded.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Eventually, those who claim a certain rider is overrated, will turn out to be correct - due to age. And this year, it looks like that will be the case for Rogla.

As far as Almeida is concerned, I think his second TT was even a bit subpar (I was not familiar with him regressing in TT) being behind Roglic who also underperformed. He has beaten Roglic in Tirreno for instance so that was a bit of a negative trend. And also got dropped by Roglic on stage 8... Assumption Rogla would take him in the mountains in 3rd week was not that unfounded.

I wouldn’t say Roglic is overrated per say. He won two WT races with stages in each and is in contention to win GC. In my opinion he’s in a better position than Valverde was in talks of GC threat. I also don’t think it’s all age related but the multiple crashes as well, which at the start of the year I said he might have trouble bouncing back due to age and the crashes (unfortunately).

I think it’s two or three posters stating his TT and overall form regressed when moving to UAE. Yes, and the thing at the time was Roglic was still building form, but so too is/was Almeida. After the first TT I would have thought Almeida’s stock to rise due to the good form and being better in the third week of the GTs.

Honestly I hope Roglic and Almeida gain time and within 10 seconds to make the final MTT for all the marbles between three riders like 2006 and 2007 Tour or 2012 TA.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

I like Roglic, I thought and wanted him to win the Tour in 2020 and was glad he came back and won the Olympic TT despite a lot stating he shouldn’t go. I’ve voted for him to win in a lot of polls but he is turning into Mahomes (NFL) for me.

Wait, didn't Mahomes just win the Super Bowl? That's a bit much, Rogla isn't doing TdF this year...

And don't forget...there will be thousands and thousands of slovenian fans cheering for him on the roads of those three decisive stages.

Thousands and thousands? Maybe dozens

 

[SHAD0W93]

Wait, didn't Mahomes just win the Super Bowl? That's a bit much, Rogla isn't doing TdF this year...



Thousands and thousands? Maybe dozens

That’s not what I meant but maybe he does. You never know.

 

[bNator]

Wait, didn't Mahomes just win the Super Bowl? That's a bit much, Rogla isn't doing TdF this year...



Thousands and thousands? Maybe dozens

Why dozens? When I was there we were probably in tens of thousands in 2021. And Roglic wasn’t even doing it…

 

[Miha81]

If it's a bad day, then it's good.
If it's because of the crash, than it's not bad.
If it's his current level, then it's bad.

We'll see on Thursday, if he ships more time there than it's game over. But if he gains, we're back baby.

Exactly.

He stated that he still feels consequences of the fall but could be smoke for competitors. He did not seem comfortable on the bike and was moving around a lot (kinda reminded me on stage 20 of 2020 TDF after bike change).

 

[bill1109]

if Roglic has stitches from the previous crash, i dont expect him to win this giro. he will try, but those that ignore injuries and just call it lack of form may not be looking at the real picture. he is doing pretty well so far for being injured but today and the upcoming mountain stages may affect him more. geeesh, the crashes in cycling...they change everything

 

[rokovski]

Exactly.

He stated that he still feels consequences of the fall but could be smoke for competitors. He did not seem comfortable on the bike and was moving around a lot (kinda reminded me on stage 20 of 2020 TDF after bike change).

I hope this will not repeat.

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

Why dozens? When I was there we were probably in tens of thousands in 2021. And Roglic wasn’t even doing it…

You mean 2022 when it went through Slovenia? But then it was millions and millions, to be fair.

 

[acm]

Giro 21' and 22' went through Slovenia.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

If Rogla were to overturn a deficit in the final time trial to win the Giro this could yet be seen as his sweetest victory by Rogla fans. Still a long way to go in the race, did well (with Kuss) to limit his losses yesterday as at one point I was expecting 1min+.

 

[Rackham]

If Rogla were to overturn a deficit in the final time trial to win the Giro this could yet be seen as his sweetest victory by Rogla fans. Still a long way to go in the race, did well (with Kuss) to limit his losses yesterday as at one point I was expecting 1min+.

I think it's too early to even daydream a little about that sort of scenario.

Either yesterday was another Formigal, i.e. a one off unfortunate crack, or it was something more serious. We'll know more tomorrow.

In terms of GC I think Thomas is in a very difficult position versus Almeida because of the state of his team, i.e. losing Sivakov was a big blow for Ineos. UAE meanwhile look very strong, especially when they use that strength for the benefit of their leader (which hasn't always been the case).

If the current hierarchy is maintained, Rog is heading towards a very depressing no-man's-land 3rd again. I can only hope (because why not eh) what happened yesterday was just the traditional bad day at the office he always has in any race, like in Catalunya stage 3 when Evenepoel blew him off his wheel in the final few hundred meters.

Lo Port happened a couple of days later so wait & see.

 

[bNator]

You mean 2022 when it went through Slovenia? But then it was millions and millions, to be fair.

Unfortunately I had to skip the 2022 edition that went through Slovenia. I was there in 2021 when it also crossed the border for a couple of kilometres:

 

[Gigs_98]

I can't believe there are people pushing a narrative that Roglic isn't the same he used to be because all he does now is jumping away right at the end of a stage. Guys, that's exactly what he has always been doing. Of course there are some exceptions as he is sometimes naturally forced to start racing earlier. But his comfort zone has always been the final km of a climb.

I'm not saying there is no chance he didn't fully recover from his injuries, but pointing at his style of racing as evidence is nonsense.

 

[tobydawq]

I can't believe there are people pushing a narrative that Roglic isn't the same he used to be because all he does now is jumping away right at the end of a stage. Guys, that's exactly what he has always been doing. Of course there are some exceptions as he is sometimes naturally forced to start racing earlier. But his comfort zone has always been the final km of a climb.

I'm not saying there is no chance he didn't fully recover from his injuries, but pointing at his style of racing as evidence is nonsense.

No risk, no glory.