Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[perico]

It’s a lot of race days and time away.

And yeah Kuss handles himself well on the climbs and doesn’t have to stress over gc and can chill at the back end of the peloton on mountain stages and all that.

He’ll probably be fine, but I don’t think you get the best of Kuss if you have him do all three especially several years on the trot.

I worry more about his long term capabilities. It doesn’t mean he’d necessarily retire, but right now Kuss is one of 3/4 best climbers in the world. I’m not a scientist and don’t claim to be one, but I remember the last time Sastre rode all 3 and he was at the tail end of his career. Valverde also rode 3 in one year but was way off the pace at that years Vuelta.

I just wouldn’t want to see Kuss start to decline at 30 years old instead of 33 or 34.

 

[Peter von]

I worry more about his long term capabilities. It doesn’t mean he’d necessarily retire, but right now Kuss is one of 3/4 best climbers in the world. I’m not a scientist and don’t claim to be one, but I remember the last time Sastre rode all 3 and he was at the tail end of his career. Valverde also rode 3 in one year but was way off the pace at that years Vuelta.

I just wouldn’t want to see Kuss start to decline at 30 years old instead of 33 or 34.

Yeah that’s a worry as well. I do think Sastra and Valverde were on a farewell tour where Kuss is doing it because Jumbo only has one of him and two riders capable of winning one/two GTs per year.

But I fear the wear and tear will be a problem going forward for Kuss, especially if they keep this up in future years.

If Rogi goes to INEOS though the headache disappears

 

[Red Rick]

Valverde went much harder in the Giro, and he still did pretty well in much of the Vuelta. Pretty much just had one complete collapse.

 

[CyclistAbi]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMwBwFj5nQ

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[how yes no?]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJMwBwFj5nQ

Dear fellow human, thank you so much for this video, I've went on to watch entire interview and it's so great. I finally understand Bruce Lee really was a great mind.

sorry for the off-topic, but this is really such a great find for me that I had to express my gratitude.

 

[yaco]

Valverde went much harder in the Giro, and he still did pretty well in much of the Vuelta. Pretty much just had one complete collapse.

Valverde had one bad day in the Vuelta and still finished 11th.

 

[perico]

Yeah but you’re comparing him to Valverde- who wasn’t exactly a normal human being.

 

[Gargamel35]

Vingegard said he's going to Vuelta...

 

[Red Rick]

Always good to have a big engine for the TTT

 

[Rackham]

Always good to have a big engine for the TTT

Unless Vingegaard can single handedly put a minute into the other teams via a couple of pulls, I'm not sure what the gains will be (or whether it's worth anything to Rog).

It's a 14.6km TTT. Gaps in team time trials are minimal anyway, let alone in such a short flat one.

 

[Tim Cahill]

As long as Roglic wasn't doing backflips in that lake with Marc Soler I still think he's joint favourite with Evenepoel, not as good at the ITT nowadays but should win about 4 or 5 of those weird uphill sprints he likes to offset the difference.

QS are cracked at the TTT so wouldn't be confident at differences there.

 

[Rackham]

As long as Roglic wasn't doing backflips in that lake with Marc Soler I still think he's joint favourite with Evenepoel, not as good at the ITT nowadays but should win about 4 or 5 of those weird uphill sprints he likes to offset the difference.

QS are cracked at the TTT so wouldn't be confident at differences there.

I bet Vingegaard & Rog are going to get in each other's way. Roglič likes an uphill sprint finish, Vingegaard does not. Vingegaard likes a super high tempo in the mountain stages, Roglič does not.

They've never actually properly raced together as co-leaders. It's been either Vingegaard helping Rog (Itzulia 2021 & Dauphiné 2022), or Rog crashing out of the Tour before the real action starts.

It's going to be uncharted territory.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Unless Vingegaard can single handedly put a minute into the other teams via a couple of pulls, I'm not sure what the gains will be (or whether it's worth anything to Rog).

It's a 14.6km TTT. Gaps in team time trials are minimal anyway, let alone in such a short flat one.

That's the plan. Vinge to help during the TTT and single handedly destroy the rest of rivals in Andorra and Javalambre. Then withdrawing and leaving Primoz with an cleared path to glory.

 

[Red Rick]

I bet Vingegaard & Rog are going to get in each other's way. Roglič likes an uphill sprint finish, Vingegaard does not. Vingegaard likes a super high tempo in the mountain stages, Roglič does not.

They've never actually properly raced together as co-leaders. It's been either Vingegaard helping Rog (Itzulia 2021 & Dauphiné 2022), or Rog crashing out of the Tour before the real action starts.

It's going to be uncharted territory.

They went pretty well together on Granon.

Also at the very least they can give each other the escuse to not pull with Ayuso or Evenepoel.

 

[Tim Cahill]

I bet Vingegaard & Rog are going to get in each other's way. Roglič likes an uphill sprint finish, Vingegaard does not. Vingegaard likes a super high tempo in the mountain stages, Roglič does not.

They've never actually properly raced together as co-leaders. It's been either Vingegaard helping Rog (Itzulia 2021 & Dauphiné 2022), or Rog crashing out of the Tour before the real action starts.

It's going to be uncharted territory.

I think he will start out like a truck then run out of juice given how deep he's seemingly gone in the tour, was looking fairly human yesterday.

Did they say who he was going in place of? If it's Kuss given how he looked crossing the line then that could be problematic.

 

[Gargamel35]

It's a huge overkill bringing Giro winner and Tour winner to Vuelta.

But it's good testing ground for next year TdF.

 

[Red Rick]

I think he will start out like a truck then run out of juice given how deep he's seemingly gone in the tour, was looking fairly human yesterday.

Did they say who he was going in place of? If it's Kuss given how he looked crossing the line then that could be problematic.

Jonas Vingegaard isn't a replacement. I think he was always going.

Kuss I very much doubt because of his Tour crashes.

I believe Kelderman is supposed to be the primary climbing domestique.

 

[theyoungest]

I bet Vingegaard & Rog are going to get in each other's way. Roglič likes an uphill sprint finish, Vingegaard does not. Vingegaard likes a super high tempo in the mountain stages, Roglič does not.

They've never actually properly raced together as co-leaders. It's been either Vingegaard helping Rog (Itzulia 2021 & Dauphiné 2022), or Rog crashing out of the Tour before the real action starts.

It's going to be uncharted territory.

Hold on... do I read this correctly, you finally understand why not bringing Roglic to the Tour was a good choice, in the execution of their tactics? Roglic and Vingegaard need an opposite sort of race.

That being said, if you take Pais Vasco 2021 as the blueprint, they can mix it up. There it was Roglic with the long range attack and Vingegaard marking Pogacar.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Jonas Vingegaard isn't a replacement. I think he was always going.

Kuss I very much doubt because of his Tour crashes.

I believe Kelderman is supposed to be the primary climbing domestique.

They currently have 10 on PCS but yeah despite the team being announced 2 days ago you would think they will give Kuss a rest now.

It's actually a great stage hunting team, enjoyed watching Leemreize and Bouwman in the 2022 Giro and Valter can threaten but it depends on whether they decide to shut up shop or just do a Movistar and let people have a crack.

 

[Netserk]

Vingegaard’s presence increases Rogla’s chances to win. It’s like having an über-Kuss. He can mark rivals, pull Rogla when he needs to defend, and set him up when he has the legs to make a difference.

 

[Red Rick]

Vingegaard’s presence increases Rogla’s chances to win. It’s like having an über-Kuss. He can mark rivals, pull Rogla when he needs to defend, and set him up when he has the legs to make a difference.

Vingegaard said he's coming to win.

I don't think it's a net gain for Roglic' chances to win. IMO the chance that Vingegaard is simply the best again outweighs Roglic' gain if he turns out stronger than Vingegaard, in which case I think he's already much more likely to beat everyone else.

 

[Rackham]

Vingegaard said he's coming to win.

I don't think it's a net gain for Roglic' chances to win. IMO the chance that Vingegaard is simply the best again outweighs Roglic' gain if he turns out stronger than Vingegaard, in which case I think he's already much more likely to beat everyone else.

I agree entirely. Vingegaard is extremely ambitious & Jumbo is quite happy to feed that ambition from the moment they're winning.

Sucks for Rog though. When the season planning was decided, Roglič specifically wanted sole team leadership so he was sent to the Giro, which he won. So he fulfilled his side of the bargain. He then asked if he could go to the Tour & the team said no (based on whatever Rog's demands were). Now Vingegaard says he wants to do the Vuelta as co leader & the team says yes. Good for Jumbo, bad for Rog.

It's the little stuff which Rog benefitted from in the Giro which really takes a hit in a co-leader scenario, like dedicated support in the bunch, how many guys will drop back & pull if something bad happens, what the strategy is on certain stages (offensive or defensive), i.e. stuff like that.

But, as the French say it's "la dure loi du sport", i.e. the hard laws of sport, which means top athletes want the top prizes & there's nothing anyone can do about it. The strongest wins. Roglič gets to test himself versus the double Tour champ on his own home turf, aka the Spanish playas. Now he just needs to stealthily introduce a few cervezas into Vingegaard's bidons on rest day & victory might just be within reach.

 

[topcat]

Vingegaard said he's coming to win.

I don't think it's a net gain for Roglic' chances to win. IMO the chance that Vingegaard is simply the best again outweighs Roglic' gain if he turns out stronger than Vingegaard, in which case I think he's already much more likely to beat everyone else.

Trouble in the camp?

 

[buddy buddy buddy]

Now Vingegaard says he wants to do the Vuelta

it was decided in november

 

[Rackham]

it was decided in november

According to Jumbo.

But if that's the case (i.e. Vingegaard & Rog as co-leaders at the Vuelta), why did Roglič ask to go to the Tour this year after the Giro?

He evidently wouldn't do all 3 GT's. If the plan was always Rog at the Giro, Vingegaard at the Tour & both at the Vuelta, then Roglič sure did go off script a little after the Giro with his TdF request.

Just some food for thought.