Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Blanco]

I love what Roglic has been doing, but Contador and Froome made the Vuelta cool again before Roglic rode it.

Spanish armada made it cool way back in 2012, Froome was just a secondary character then...

 

[Valv.Piti]

Rodriguez, Contador and Valverde in those Vuelta were peak cycling to me, especially 2012! Loved it.

Okay.. maybe not peak, but it was great to watch, especially since I had a horse in the race.

 

[theyoungest]

I understand that none of what I wrote is a certainty, but having been following cycling and in particular Roglic for the last couple of years I formed the opinion I expressed. The major indication was Rog's interview after the Giro where he plainly said he wanted to go to the Tour and the team did not let him do it. Rog never says anything so plainly and the mere fact he said it was quite elucidating.
Regarding Jumbo Visma; Yes, they have had great results, but it is mostly because of the very good riders there are in the team. I can say that the people who are bringing in the sponsorship money and deciding the signings are doing a great job. However, the people in charge of tactics are pretty bad. They cannot control their riders (Wout), the races Wout is supposed to win he never does. they probably cost Rog a Giro in 19, stage 6 at this year's Tour (I mean eve I in front of the TV saw that Pog was not on the limit and the guy in the car was lying to Jonas...).

You have a very narrow view of what it is to manage a cycling team. Every rider on that team, even the ones thrown by the wayside, says that Jumbo are probably the best run team in the Worldtour right now. You only need to look at UAE to see that having a lot of good riders does not make you a good team. Do you know why they can't get Almeida and Ayuso to ride for Pogacar? Or why even if they do have Adam Yates, he doesn't really help Pogi in any way? Whereas it would be difficult to argue that Van Aert is not helping Vingegaard, even if you think he wastes some energy now and then.

 

[Bolder]

I'm not Dutch so I don't understand fully this "Rabofail" nonsense but if you look at GT, classics and shorter tour results over the past 4 years you can't say that JV aren't a well run and well rounded team. Sure, there are some races they probably should have won but overall, how many other teams have excelled across the board like that? And they have the bad luck to be racing at the same time as Pogacar, who is a generational if not all-time talent.

 

[tobydawq]

I'm not Dutch so I don't understand fully this "Rabofail" nonsense but if you look at GT, classics and shorter tour results over the past 4 years you can't say that JV aren't a well run and well rounded team. Sure, there are some races they probably should have won but overall, how many other teams have excelled across the board like that? And they have the bad luck to be racing at the same time as Pogacar, who is a generational if not all-time talent.

There once was a stage in the Paris-Nice in the late 00's where Rabobank drilled it in the cross-winds and came home without the stage win as Sylvain Chavanel outsprinted their riders, and since then, every time the team didn't win, the Rabofail moniker has been used, no matter how many Grand Tours and classics they do win...

 

[DNP-Old]

There once was a stage in the Paris-Nice in the late 00's where Rabobank drilled it in the cross-winds and came home without the stage win as Sylvain Chavanel outsprinted their riders, and since then, every time the team didn't win, the Rabofail moniker has been used, no matter how many Grand Tours and classics they do win...

If that was Rabofail, what is this?

CQ Ranking - Paris - Nice, Stage 2 : Nangis - Sens

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

 

[Salvarani]

There once was a stage in the Paris-Nice in the late 00's where Rabobank drilled it in the cross-winds and came home without the stage win as Sylvain Chavanel outsprinted their riders, and since then, every time the team didn't win, the Rabofail moniker has been used, no matter how many Grand Tours and classics they do win...

So you are telling me... cycling fans invented the first meme?

 

[tobydawq]

If that was Rabofail, what is this?

CQ Ranking - Paris - Nice, Stage 2 : Nangis - Sens

CQ Ranking is the world's leading cycling ranking and extensive results database. Also known as Cycling Quotient.

cqranking.com

Haha wow, I didn't know about that stage. That's bad

 

[DNP-Old]

Haha wow, I didn't know about that stage. That's bad

Funny thing is, the one guy who didn’t make the cut and you therefore do not see in the results is the one guy who would have beaten Tchmil in this sleep, a certain Robbie McEwen. There was salvation though, as Boogerd and Zberg got 1 and 2 in GC despite Vandenbroucke going berserk on Valberg in his mythical year.

That was a legendary Rabobank year in general. They were so good collectively that even Lance Armstrong started to ask questions and was afraid he was slacking.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yeah 2019-2021 was his big window, and it didn’t work out. It’s still possible but highly unlikely.

Well, it’s been a rollercoaster, but I’m back to to the stage 5 perspective. No way TJV can do anything but go all in for Jonas in the Tour, and it’s hard to imagine Roglic winning without some luck for once going his way. It’s hard to believe, but the advantage he had (ITT) is now almost certainly a deficit to the new king of ITTs, Vingegaard. And while I could see him hanging on and taking some bonus seconds even, I don’t see him truly dropping Vingegaard on a climb. I could easily see him having a bad day, though. In another universe he won 2019, 2020, 2021 Tours and Contador won 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012 Tour. But we are instead in the universe in which Vingegaard is about to tie Contador’s official Tour wins and Roglic has 0.

(Throwing in Contador because he similarly had bad luck, crashes, and an unexpected, mutant rival, and I was a big fan.)

 

[CyclistAbi]

It would be interesting to see on how Rogla would be positioned after today's ITT. Maybe he and Pogi could throw in a couple of exchanges. To try to crack Jonas tomorrow.

Jokes aside. Jonas still has to win this years edition. And on top of that if he wins it or not JV will likely find it challenging. That is Rogla still wants a dedicated team support and to win the Tour. Then cyclists like van Aert still likely want to win Tour stages ... But lets first focus on remainder of this Tour edition, then Vuelta, then ...

P.S. Rogla is doing his own Tour this year. Turini, L'Iseran ... A holiday Tour edition!

 

[Red Rick]

Only way he wins is if he is in the Hindley break, gains like 2 minutes + on Vingegaard and 3+ on Pog and Jumbo literally put Vingegagaard in chains.

I don't see any strong case to be made that he doesn't get 3rd.

 

[Carols]

Yes it'll be Jonas for the Tour and rightfully so. Only way Primoz has a shot is switch teams

 

[Red Rick]

Yes it'll be Jonas for the Tour and rightfully so. Only way Primoz has a shot is switch teams

Switch teams and do what? Beat Jumbo? He'll probably just get worse.

 

[Carols]

Switch teams and do what? Beat Jumbo? He'll probably just get worse.

As much as I Detest Ineos, he'd have a good shot for leadership and solid support.

 

[Gargamel35]

When alien Pogačar gets destroyed and him and the other alien are 8+ min ahead of anybody else after only 2 weeks of TdF, you know you just can't win. Roglič would be easily third in this TdF but far away from Pog and Vinge. No shame in that. He's much older and needs to race against two generational talents in crazy form.

 

[CyclistAbi]

There was some similar talks before Catalunya and Giro ... And when i read about Vuelta. Obviously everybody else is the favorite.

We'll figure something out. In regards to the Tour and ToS.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

You guys sound quite pessimistic about Roglic and TdF, here…

I‘d say there‘s no indication he wouldn‘t be able to follow Vinge and Pog at the moment.

Rog had a perfect spring, won the Giro, beat Evenepoel in Catalunya, was maybe better than ever.

I underestimated Roglic for the first time, before Tirreno 2023. I won‘t underestimate him ever, again.

Imho, TdF victory in 2024 will be decided between Vinge, Pog and Roglic…

 

[Oldermanish]

You guys sound quite pessimistic about Roglic and TdF, here…

I‘d say there‘s no indication he wouldn‘t be able to follow Vinge and Pog at the moment.

Rog had a perfect spring, won the Giro, beat Evenepoel in Catalunya, was maybe better than ever.

I underestimated Roglic for the first time, before Tirreno 2023. I won‘t underestimate him ever, again.

Imho, TdF victory in 2024 will be decided between Vinge, Pog and Roglic…

...and some wildcard riders to be named later. It's not going to be the status quo with the amount of young talent messing with staid, robotic team strategy.

 

[Rackham]

Switch teams and do what? Beat Jumbo? He'll probably just get worse.

Better than riding as Vingegaard's bottle carrier. He'd at least be able to target his own stages & work his own strategy.

And considering Jumbo said 'no' when Rog asked them if he could ride this TdF 2023, I suspect the answer is going to be the same if/when he asks again regarding the 2024 Tour, especially considering he'll want protected GC status & support.

And there's no guarantee he'll get worse in an another team in terms of performance, i.e. such things are difficult (impossible?) to predict, especially insofar as Jumbo's clear focus is on Vingegaard now. It's not like Rog's level is of utmost concern to them going forward. They probably don't really care that much beyond ensuring secondary targets are attainable (Giro, Vuelta).

 

[Gargamel35]

Better than riding as Vingegaard's bottle carrier. He'd at least be able to target his own stages & work his own strategy.

And considering Jumbo said 'no' when Rog asked them if he could ride this TdF 2023, I suspect the answer is going to be the same if/when he asks again regarding the 2024 Tour, especially considering he'll want protected GC status & support.

And there's no guarantee he'll get worse in an another team in terms of performance, i.e. such things are difficult (impossible?) to predict, especially insofar as Jumbo's clear focus is on Vingegaard now. It's not like Rog's level is of utmost concern to them going forward. They probably don't really care that much beyond ensuring secondary targets are attainable (Giro, Vuelta).

I would believe going to another team not being JV and UAE, Roglič will get worse technological, nutrition, training,... support.

 

[Unterlenkerfahrend]

Pog will do Giro/Vuelta next year I guess. In that case Roglic just has to ride the Tour and "hopes" that Vingegaard crashes/gets sick. Doesn't really matter on which team he's on for that, as Vinge backup or as a competitor on another team, same outcome.

 

[tobydawq]

As much as I Detest Ineos, he'd have a good shot for leadership and solid support.

Switch to Ineos and form a duo with Remco.

 

[Peter von]

You guys sound quite pessimistic about Roglic and TdF, here…

I‘d say there‘s no indication he wouldn‘t be able to follow Vinge and Pog at the moment.

Rog had a perfect spring, won the Giro, beat Evenepoel in Catalunya, was maybe better than ever.

I underestimated Roglic for the first time, before Tirreno 2023. I won‘t underestimate him ever, again.

Imho, TdF victory in 2024 will be decided between Vinge, Pog and Roglic…

Could be. Rogi has a contract with Vingegaards team atm though. dual leadership is more fun when one guys isn't the defending champ. Though Bernal did alright on that score in 2019. Wout will also be back riding for Green next year, which might be Rogi's real headache here.

I don't know if anyone is buying out a 33 year old with two years remaining on his contract.

Rogi can show up, do his best and if he is stronger than Vingegaard the team will ride for him. If he isn't stronger than Vingegaard it doesn't really matter if he is on Jumbo or another team anyway, cycling can be very simple.

I could see ASO planning a Remco friendly route next year, which could also be rather Rogi friendly

 

[Gargamel35]

Could be. Rogi has a contract with Vingegaards team atm though. dual leadership is more fun when one guys isn't the defending champ. Though Bernal did alright on that score in 2019. Wout will also be back riding for Green next year, which might be Rogi's real headache here.

I don't know if anyone is buying out a 33 year old with two years remaining on his contract.

Rogi can show up, do his best and if he is stronger than Vingegaard the team will ride for him. If he isn't stronger than Vingegaard it doesn't really matter if he is on Jumbo or another team anyway, cycling can be very simple.

I could see ASO planning a Remco friendly route next year, which could also be rather Rogi friendly

Every route that is Remco/Roglič friendly is at the same time Pog/Vinge friendly.