Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Rackham]

He will be 34 at next years tour.

Cadel Evans was 34 when he won his TdF.

 

[Red Rick]

I’ll wait until Evenepoel is 27 and did at least 1 TDF in proper form without issues before thinking he’ll never win it as Vingegaard and Pogacar did before him.

5th year WT rider who hasn't taken it to Pogacar or Vingegaard once on the big climbs, and in his big test this year failed completely. I think the default assumption should be "most likely not good enough".

And I am giving him leeway assuming he can benefit from a Sepp Kuss style break which assumes he's not gonna crack and drop 30 minute again.

 

[yaco]

Van Aert rode himself into the dirt (figuratively & literally) for Vingegaard on the cobbled stage last year in the TdF 2022 after Vinge's chain drop. So that one probably ranks pretty highly as well on the "teammate saves the GC win" list.

But the point about Hindley is he can do the job for Rog in the TdF 2024 which Kuss usually does at Jumbo, but better. It'll also give all the proverbial Rog haters something to complain about as well, which is what most of them want, i.e. to say "Hindley saved Rog's GC win".

So it's a win-win-win proposition really, i.e. Rog wins a GT (preferably the TdF eh), Hindley becomes the new Kuss, but better, and Rog's haters get to say he only won thanks to a teammate.

The balance of the cycling universe will be intact.

Hindley will be going to the Giro in 2024 - He wanted to defend his title in 2023 but was over-ruled by team management.

 

[acm]

He will be 34 at next years tour.

He will be 34 at the end of this month and this season is his best ever. Where is the problem then?

 

[Rackham]

Hindley will be going to the Giro in 2024 - He wanted to defend his title in 2023 but was over-ruled by team management.

I read the complete opposite, i.e. after Hindley won the Giro, he said he wanted to go to the Tour de France.

But on the issue of the Tour, I'll assume a prospective Bora team surrounding Rog would be the strongest possible. The team would make the yellow jersey their goal.

Just throw the best riders in there in terms of climbing & rouleurs.

 

[Berniece]

5th year WT rider who hasn't taken it to Pogacar or Vingegaard once on the big climbs, and in his big test this year failed completely. I think the default assumption should be "most likely not good enough".

And I am giving him leeway assuming he can benefit from a Sepp Kuss style break which assumes he's not gonna crack and drop 30 minute again.

His big test failed because he had covid… What a failure on his side…

 

[IndurainsTdF1994]

His big test failed because he had covid… What a failure on his side…

If the goal was winning a GT, he failed once, and failed miserably the other time.

 

[Elos Anjos]

JC why are we at this again.

Remco's law #1

For any given cycling race X, Remco will win X it if at least he races it.

Remco's law #2

For any given cycling race X that Remco rides and does not win, the outcome is explainable by Y.

Remco's law #3

Y comprises: covid, flu, diet, imperfect preparation, mechanical problems, development issues, bad team, bad route, bad luck, bad weather, Sun in Pisces, Miss Evenepoel, the war in Ukraine and, of course, climate change.

These three Remco laws should be utterly and actively rejected by any cycling fan while knowing that these laws are impossible to refute and will always be at the back of any Remco fan's mind.

 

[pastronef]

the arguing around Remco is already top notch. but I want him to sign for Ineos and Sir Dave. then it will be one notch higher

 

[theyoungest]

Van Aert rode himself into the dirt (figuratively & literally) for Vingegaard on the cobbled stage last year in the TdF 2022 after Vinge's chain drop. So that one probably ranks pretty highly as well on the "teammate saves the GC win" list.

But the point about Hindley is he can do the job for Rog in the TdF 2024 which Kuss usually does at Jumbo, but better. It'll also give all the proverbial Rog haters something to complain about as well, which is what most of them want, i.e. to say "Hindley saved Rog's GC win".

So it's a win-win-win proposition really, i.e. Rog wins a GT (preferably the TdF eh), Hindley becomes the new Kuss, but better, and Rog's haters get to say he only won thanks to a teammate.

The balance of the cycling universe will be intact.

I'd be very surprised if Hindley comes anywhere close to what Kuss has done for Roglic. To think he could be better because he's done a few better GCs is "scoreboard journalism", to use a Dutch expression. Let Kuss ride for himself in the Tour and he does at least as well as Hindley.

 

[theyoungest]

I’ll wait until Evenepoel is 27 and did at least 1 TDF in proper form without issues before thinking he’ll never win it as Vingegaard and Pogacar did before him.

What does "no issues" mean? Every GC rider encounters issues throughout a grand tour, it's how you deal with them that makes the difference.

With Evenepoel it seems he has created this idea for himself and his surroundings that everything has to be absolutely 100% perfect or he can't win. I think this is because he can't admit he's maybe not the unbeatable rider he wants to be. And he's certainly not a born GT rider. But neither was Roglic when he came to Jumbo, they really worked on his endurance. They could maybe do the same with Remco.

 

[SHAD0W93]

JC why are we at this again.

Remco's law #1

For any given cycling race X, Remco will win X it if at least he races it.

Remco's law #2

For any given cycling race X that Remco rides and does not win, the outcome is explainable by Y.

Remco's law #3

Y comprises: covid, flu, diet, imperfect preparation, mechanical problems, development issues, bad team, bad route, bad luck, bad weather, Sun in Pisces, Miss Evenepoel, the war in Ukraine .

These three Remco laws should be utterly and actively rejected by any cycling fan while knowing that these laws are impossible to refute and will always be at the back of any Remco fan's mind.

Same laws apply for Roglic honestly. And anyother rider bar Masnada.

 

[Froome]

Bora would be a good team for him. He would be the undisputed leader, with guys like hindley, cian, vlasov to help him.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He will be 34 at the end of this month and this season is his best ever. Where is the problem then?

A good argument can be made for his 2021 season if this season finishes as is:
2021 he had to recover from a bad crash in the middle of the season and at his main goal vs 2023 had him recovering from two bad crashes over the winter.
Both seasons he won a GT; 2021 was a dominate win with 4 stage wins and could have won 3-4 more if he wanted to, 2nd in points, and 3rd in KoM and could have won those if he wanted to vs 2023 with only being dominate for 1 stage to win the GC and being handicapped in the second to finish third overall and 3 GT stage wins
2020(1) Olympic gold medal in the TT(which is brought up more than any former Olympic TT winner here) when many were saying Slovenia was taking the wrong rider
2021 1 WT stage race win with 4 stage wins across two races vs 2 WT stage race wins and 1 stage race win with 7 stage wins across three races
Won Emilia both years
2021 1st Milano Torino
2021 2nd FW
2021 4th Lombardia

All comes down to how you rate the Olympic win, which has far more naysayers of him winning compared to TA and Catalunya did this year.

 

[EddyMazzoleni]

5th year WT rider who hasn't taken it to Pogacar or Vingegaard once on the big climbs, and in his big test this year failed completely. I think the default assumption should be "most likely not good enough".

And I am giving him leeway assuming he can benefit from a Sepp Kuss style break which assumes he's not gonna crack and drop 30 minute again.

Considering he lost almost 1 full year to a crash...
Also Pogacar cannot touch Vingegaard at the Tour in the current state. The last 2 years he was crushed.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Sure, unless he’s better

Maybe, more realistic scenario in my opinion is, to get more opportunities at Giro or Vuelta, for now. That is at one per season, as i don't feel Remco is up to winning two GT's per season just yet. At for example a team, like Ineos, there it would be required from him, to win the Tour. We'll see on how Remco will chose in the end. On where he feels he would fit in the most ATM.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Unironically think winning the Tour like Kuss' Vuelta while at Jumbo is his best bet, just like for Roglic.

Realistically, a big reason to go to Ineos could be $$$.

Nah, Rogla in my opinion has a much better chances winning the Tour by riding for a quality team supporting him. With JV it would be Jonas, Kuss, Remco, Wilco, van Aert ... and only after all other options to be exhausted, then maybe such idea could bear fruit.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He will be 34 at next years tour.

And 35, when defending. Imagine that.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What does "no issues" mean? Every GC rider encounters issues throughout a grand tour, it's how you deal with them that makes the difference.

With Evenepoel it seems he has created this idea for himself and his surroundings that everything has to be absolutely 100% perfect or he can't win. I think this is because he can't admit he's maybe not the unbeatable rider he wants to be. And he's certainly not a born GT rider. But neither was Roglic when he came to Jumbo, they really worked on his endurance. They could maybe do the same with Remco.

So you are dissing both Rogla and Remco in this thread. You are over reaching.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Considering he lost almost 1 full year to a crash...
Also Pogacar cannot touch Vingegaard at the Tour in the current state. The last 2 years he was crushed.

The idea is for Jonas to fall on all the crumbling.

 

[CyclistAbi]

For me personally, i support for the team to bring both Jonas and Remco to the Tour in 2024. If they will be riding for the same team. Should give Rogla more leverage. Especially considering Jonas, Kuss and Remco combined are still younger, then Rogla. We'll see.

 

[acm]

A good argument can be made for his 2021 season if this season finishes as is:
2021 he had to recover from a bad crash in the middle of the season and at his main goal vs 2023 had him recovering from two bad crashes over the winter.
Both seasons he won a GT; 2021 was a dominate win with 4 stage wins and could have won 3-4 more if he wanted to, 2nd in points, and 3rd in KoM and could have won those if he wanted to vs 2023 with only being dominate for 1 stage to win the GC and being handicapped in the second to finish third overall and 3 GT stage wins
2020(1) Olympic gold medal in the TT(which is brought up more than any former Olympic TT winner here) when many were saying Slovenia was taking the wrong rider
2021 1 WT stage race win with 4 stage wins across two races vs 2 WT stage race wins and 1 stage race win with 7 stage wins across three races
Won Emilia both years
2021 1st Milano Torino
2021 2nd FW
2021 4th Lombardia

All comes down to how you rate the Olympic win, which has far more naysayers of him winning compared to TA and Catalunya did this year.

He would win 2 GTs this year, if allowed. So yes, this is his best season ever.

 

[SHAD0W93]

He would win 2 GTs this year, if allowed. So yes, this is his best season ever.

But he didn’t win 2 GTs this year, just like he could have won 2 in 2021. He was stronger throughout the season in 2021 and had a great season.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He would win 2 GTs this year, if allowed. So yes, this is his best season ever.

This is another aspect indeed. It's not just the Tour, a GT double it a worthy goal too. At JV that was not on the table any more. In the new team i assume he will have that opportunity again, as long as he wins the Tour.

 

[CyclistAbi]

As for Rogličes age. Records are there to be broken. I hence fully support the mission of Rogla being the oldest cyclist in history, that defended the Tour title. Looking forward to it!