Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Cycling111]

He crashed again today. I cant believe it. Every race i have the hope that he just end the race without any crash or bad luck but i think its not possible for him.

Del Toro was also involved in the crash. How could he made it in the first group?
Unbelivable.

Del Toro, Carapaz, and Pidcock were also involved in the crash but reacted quickly. That's also part of a rider , not just generating a lot of watts. Pogacar is another rider who has the ability to stay well positioned, even though his team is terrible at it.

 

[Rackham]

Del Toro, Carapaz, and Pidcock were also involved in the crash but reacted quickly. That's also part of a rider , not just generating a lot of watts. Pogacar is another rider who has the ability to stay well positioned, even though his team is terrible at it.

Don't you get bored running around the forum with a new angle to use against riders you don't like? Today it's the mythical "reaction time" after a crash that you're using to explain why Rog lost time.

I guess Ciccone is just a bad cyclist then. Following your logic.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Well some riders are better at stuff like positioning, not crashing, staying out of trouble etc. Roglic is historically not very good at it, while Del Toro finds himself at the front time and time again. Its not all bad RNG.

 

[Rackham]

Well some riders are better at stuff like positioning, not crashing, staying out of trouble etc. Roglic is historically not very good at it, while Del Toro finds himself at the front time and time again. Its not all bad RNG.

Del Toro has been a pro for five minutes. It's the first time he's contested GC in a GT. Apples and oranges. It's way too soon to say he's bulletproof in these sort of chaotic moments (in fact he literally almost decked it on the following lap when Visma pushed on the cobbles through town).

And if Tiberi and Ciccone make the first group split, the same could have been said about them. It's that random.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Okay, but you decide to neglect that Roglic is not very good at it. Its no coincidence, and Del Toro has just shown to be ever present whenever important stuff went down in this race whether thats attacks, bonus, splits, crashes etc. Most likely because he has great legs and can afford to.

 

[Red Rick]

Whether or not there's 2 dudes on top of your bike in a mass pile up is purely determined by skills.

Also, conveniently ignoring on the gravel stage the crash happens right in front of Roglic, while Del Toro the positinioning genius is far enough back to anticipate the crash and ride around.

 

[theyoungest]

Del Toro has been a pro for five minutes. It's the first time he's contested GC in a GT. Apples and oranges. It's way too soon to say he's bulletproof in these sort of chaotic moments (in fact he literally almost decked it on the following lap when Visma pushed on the cobbles through town).

And if Tiberi and Ciccone make the first group split, the same could have been said about them. It's that random.

You can see Del Toro is better at it. If you're consistently at the front when you're on UAE, that means you're good at it because UAE are everyone for themselves.

Roglic requires a whole team to babysit him at all times, it's just not one of his talents to be on the right place at the right time. At some point it's not a coincidence anymore when you crash always and everywhere.

 

[Red Rick]

You can see Del Toro is better at it. If you're consistently at the front when you're on UAE, that means you're good at it because UAE are everyone for themselves.

Roglic requires a whole team to babysit him at all times, it's just not one of his talents to be on the right place at the right time. At some point it's not a coincidence anymore when you crash always and everywhere.

Yes, there is a skill element.

But if you're gonna call every single incident a skill issue even when it's clearly not the case then it's just trolling.

 

[Rackham]

You can see Del Toro is better at it. If you're consistently at the front when you're on UAE, that means you're good at it because UAE are everyone for themselves.

Roglic requires a whole team to babysit him at all times, it's just not one of his talents to be on the right place at the right time. At some point it's not a coincidence anymore when you crash always and everywhere.

One of the most annoying moments in cycling when I was a kid was when Alex Zülle was caught up in a huge pile up during the really dumb decision to get the riders to race along the Passage du Gois in the 1999 TdF. It made for the tv shots they wanted but the crash was totally predictable and the result was a disaster for the race: L.A. won the Tour that year with the 6 minutes on Zülle he gained that day.

So I pretty much learned back then not to run around saying things like "oh this rider is so much better at avoiding garbage than another" because guess what? Crashes like this ruin the race anyway. And yeah it's often quite random and the more someone races, the more it can happen to him.

 

[theyoungest]

One of the most annoying moments in cycling when I was a kid was when Alex Zülle was caught up in a huge pile up during the really dumb decision to get the riders to race along the Passage du Gois in the 1999 TdF. It made for the tv shots they wanted but the crash was totally predictable and the result was a disaster for the race: L.A. won the Tour that year with the 6 minutes on Zülle he gained that day.

So I pretty much learned back then not to run around saying things like "oh this rider is so much better at avoiding garbage than another" because guess what? Crashes like this ruin the race anyway. And yeah it's often quite random and the more someone races, the more it can happen to him.

Come on, Roglic is just not good at this. His teammates know it, former and current. Even in the races he wins he usually hits the deck once or twice. That's not a coincidence. Take it as a sign of his talent that he wins so often regardless. But positioning in the peloton and knowing when to move up and when not to do so, that's his weakness. Probably because he started cycling so very late.

His main strength, however, is that he gets up again and just continues as if nothing happened. He's tough as nails.

 

[Ripper]

Come on, Roglic is just not good at this. His teammates know it, former and current. Even in the races he wins he usually hits the deck once or twice. That's not a coincidence. Take it as a sign of his talent that he wins so often regardless. But positioning in the peloton and knowing when to move up and when not to do so, that's his weakness. Probably because he started cycling so very late.

His main strength, however, is that he gets up again and just continues as if nothing happened. He's tough as nails.

He does get up again and again ... amazing fighting spirit.

But wow. Like holy *** wow, do he ever hit the deck a lot! He hits the deck more in one GT than I do in my entire career (that might be a slight exaggeration, but only a slight one!)

 

[Valv.Piti]

Whether or not there's 2 dudes on top of your bike in a mass pile up is purely determined by skills.

Also, conveniently ignoring on the gravel stage the crash happens right in front of Roglic, while Del Toro the positinioning genius is far enough back to anticipate the crash and ride around.

Read what I write, man. Its bad luck that Roglic continue to be caught up, crash etc? It literally happens every GT and most often multiple times. Just using Del Toro as an example as he's always on the forefront of everything in this race so far.

 

[Rackham]

Okay. So now that we've gotten all the usual Roglcisms out of the way, aka positioning issues, bad luck, crashes, never-say-die attitude with a determined chase etc. aka the usual stuff that causes endless debates about his deficiencies as a rider... so when do we get the other side, you know, the "let's turn on the afterburners and win something" side?

Because that's the complete Rogla package, usually, unless his physical condition is kaput of course. Honestly I think Bernal might be an interesting linchpin in the final week because he seems to be riding quite offensively in this Giro and he's even further behind in GC.

Maybe latch onto his wheel at some point like the good old days ala Covadonga 2021.

 

[Purito91]

Are there any infos about his condition after the crash?
I just want him in good shape in the last week.
If its not enough to win, im okay with it. But i want to see some action from him.

 

[Faserr]

Radsport-news (german) wrote that he was relaxed after the stage. He was signing autographs and theowing bidons to fans.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

I think he is here because of the team. They wanted him to win this race, he wants to win the tour. So they compromise on giro tour. I don't think he's desperate to win the giro.

 

[JosefK]

Are there any infos about his condition after the crash?
I just want him in good shape in the last week.
If its not enough to win, im okay with it. But i want to see some action from him.

I saw a brief on-site interview with him right after the stage, and he seemed in good spirits, smiling and interacting with fans. He had a small patch missing from his uniform on the left rear buttocks area (maybe one or two square inches). It seemed like a minor spill insofar as Rog crashes go. ... But still, it's crash #3 so far in this Giro.

 

[tobydawq]

I think he is here because of the team. They wanted him to win this race, he wants to win the tour. So they compromise on giro tour. I don't think he's desperate to win the giro.

He's not so stupid that he thinks he can actually win the Tour, so I'm not buying this.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I mean each time Rogla hits the deck a claim is being made on how Rogla is hitting the deck a lot, somehow in an insulation. What you forget to mention is all other relevant riders hit the deck too, and do it often, or you forget to mention on how out of big 4 group in the last season or two all of them were out in some way, due to a crash and an injury. So following your logic all of them are pure crap, when it comes to bike handling skills. Somethings seems off here.

It's the same thing as the age debate. Some of you know Rogličes birthday to heart and just seem not to get over that. We get it, 35. For example Ayuso and del Toro together barely reach this age. And considering in what position they are ATM, Rogla by any chance finishing ahead, that will look rather bad, for the age theorists.

 

[CyclistAbi]

A bit of time shifted today in favour of del Toro, Simon Yates and Carapaz, still, in grand scheme of things not as bad as it might sound. Visma and EF getting involved so deeply in GC race is in my opinion a plus. In regards to Ayuso not much has changed, regarding del Toro, here if he holds in mountains he already won this Giro edition, today outcome doesn't change that. If he cracks then IMHO UAE is now in a bit of a pickle, on what to do next.

So all in all still time for Rogla to take off his pilgrim cloth, to put on shepherd's wool and crook and catches all this stray lambs scattered all over the mountains in week three. After to wait for Pogi, Jonas and Remco, to join the lambs. As beating UAE (and Visma) now being in such position, no way they recover from that till the Tour.

 

[Berniece]

I mean each time Rogla hits the deck a claim is being made on how Rogla is hitting the deck a lot, somehow in an insulation. What you forget to mention is all other relevant riders hit the deck too, and do it often, or you forget to mention on how out of big 4 group in the last season or two all of them were out in some way, due to a crash and an injury. So following your logic all of them are pure crap, when it comes to bike handling skills. Somethings seems off here.

What’s the count for each GC rider on how many times they crashed these past 2 weeks?

 

[Red Rick]

What’s the count for each GC rider on how many times they crashed these past 2 weeks?

Roglic twice during races. Ayuso twice during races. Landa and Hindley broke their backs. Tiberi went down hard. Ciccone is out. Del Toro himself crashed yesterday.

I remember seeing some stats that counted crashes in the last x years and while Roglic was above average, he wasn't close to being on top and he wasn't even that much higher than supposed great bike handlers.

The thing that annoys me is this fundamental attribution error thing we have going on where when other riders crash it's just a part of cycling, and every time Roglic' crashes there's people in this thread going "skill issue", even despite if you look at the actual crash happening, he's in a front 20 position in the peloton and the rider before him goes down.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Roglic's bike handling is a mystery to me. He can descend pretty well but he can't stay in a bunch and swerve from dangerous spots which lead to potential crashes. He is always trying to conserve energy and forgets to be attentive to other riders.
Anyone claiming this is just bad luck, has not been following this sport in the last 5 years.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic's bike handling is a mystery to me. He can descend pretty well but he can't stay in a bunch and swerve from dangerous spots which leads to potential crashes. He is always trying to conserve energy and forgets to be attentive to other riders.
Anyone claiming this is just bad luck, has not been following this sport in the last 5 years.

It's bad luck combined with being in the thick of the action all the time and also not being a superman.

That's the gist of it. It means yes Rog really does have to conserve energy whilst at the same time riding on the raggedy edge like an f1 driver pushing his car beyond its limits. He also gets bullied pretty easily and lets his teammates wheels go because he backs off.

But I do call B.S. on a lot of commentary about him. Like the TdF crash last year when some pseudo experts on Eurosport attempted to claim he had zero reaction time and was at fault for getting taken out when Lutsenko hit the deck. That sort of commentary just reeks of former pros without 10% of Rog's palmarès clutching at something snobbish to make themselves seem like superior cyclists (aka mythical bike handling and reaction times).

 

[Red Rick]

Roglic's bike handling is a mystery to me. He can descend pretty well but he can't stay in a bunch and swerve from dangerous spots which leads to potential crashes. He is always trying to conserve energy and forgets to be attentive to other riders.
Anyone claiming this is just bad luck, has not been following this sport in the last 5 years.

It's not so mysterious to me.

- He's generally pretty good at cornering and descending, especially on his TT bike. Less so in the rain
- He's bad in anticipating and responding to movements of other riders, especially in a big, frantic peloton
- He's a former ski jumper and an adrenaline junkie. This means he's less risk averse than he probably should be based on his bike handling skills.