Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Red Rick]

Data is bs

 

[Rackham]

Ciccone crashed multiple times, including in the Vuelta last year. AI doing AI things, as always. It probably gave Rog six fingers as well, as per usual.

 

[EliseeReclus]

I asked deepseek AI for the number of crashes for the top 10 Grand Tour Riders for the past 5 years. The data may not be 100% accurate, as we know these generative AI models can be dicey, but I think it is a good starting point. According to deepseek, Roglic has more crashes than the other 9 riders combined.

If you want more detailed information about all the crashes and sources of data, I can provide that. I just didn't want to create too much clutter in this post.

Also, it does say that crashes during sprints often times go unrecorded unless there is an abandonment.

Just from memory both Ciccone and Ayuso have crashed in this giro, Pedersen crashed and abandoned the Tour last year, van Aert very infamously crashed out of the Vuelta last year and injured himself very badly - this is mostly missing so much that it's not valuable.

 

[Potomac]

I'm tempted to just tally up the number of GT starts and GT DNFs for a bunch of riders over the last 5 years.
But why bother....everyone knows Roglic is in the lead for that.

 

[Rackham]

I'm tempted to just tally up the number of GT starts and GT DNFs for a bunch of riders over the last 5 years.
But why bother....everyone knows Roglic is in the lead for that.

If we're gonna start splitting hairs, we should probably also mention the GT's he could have finished - even carrying an injury - but chose not to in order to go and prepare for the next race.

Just look at Juan Ayuso's misery in the Giro. Rog doesn't do that.

 

[red_flanders]

I asked deepseek AI for the number of crashes for the top 10 Grand Tour Riders for the past 5 years. The data may not be 100% accurate, as we know these generative AI models can be dicey, but I think it is a good starting point. According to deepseek, Roglic has more crashes than the other 9 riders combined.

If you want more detailed information about all the crashes and sources of data, I can provide that. I just didn't want to create too much clutter in this post.

Also, it does say that crashes during sprints often times go unrecorded unless there is an abandonment.

There's certainly one outlier in that data.

And Evenepoel looking like the one who can match it over time...

 

[Oldman]

I disagree it’s the most natural cycle in cycling and many people riding scared as they age, get family and have big impact crashes its only natural by a tiny margin have it back in your mind. For instance, when WVA and MVDP burst onto the scene, every veteran in the peloton talked about how reckless riders had become compared to before, how night-and-day the difference was how people rode without respect and dangerous. Now, this year WVA himself speaks about and cites how riders take corners without any precautions and how dangerously over-the-top it has become in his mind, in almost every post classic interview he did this year.

There are countless prior examples throughout history of this exact same pattern. I’m also not implying every crash Rog has is due to fear—far from it, not at all some are just unavoidable for sure. I meant it more in a general sense.

Anyway, it seems like this has already been discussed on previous pages, and my intention wasn’t to drag on about something tiring, my bad. If you disagree, that’s fine, respectfully, we’ll just agree to disagree.

You are mixing the aggregate knowledge of worthwhile risk a good rider accumulates with creeping timidity. An experienced rider will know previous routes well. That rider will assume on a dry day following a wet day that every steep, tight corner has a strip of sandy dust and avoid it. Pyrenean backroad descents have absurdly abrupt compressions on the inside line of corners...Roglic has gone down several times not knowing the road. If someone ahead of you is on that line; you back off and widen your approach so as not to ride over their body.

If you know the road and some newbie flies by at a speed that won't be navigable you will utter as*hole either out loud or in your mind. You won't crash but you'll need to brake to a near stop and then waste energy closing a gap. I hated that but you likely won't see that guy again on the remaining descent. If it happens more than once you mention it to his team road captain or DS. Or have your DS mention it to them. Same with chronic half-wheelers that sit in the middle of the peloton to avoid all wind. Sprinters come to mind.

 

[Oldman]

I asked deepseek AI for the number of crashes for the top 10 Grand Tour Riders for the past 5 years. The data may not be 100% accurate, as we know these generative AI models can be dicey, but I think it is a good starting point. According to deepseek, Roglic has more crashes than the other 9 riders combined.

If you want more detailed information about all the crashes and sources of data, I can provide that. I just didn't want to create too much clutter in this post.

Also, it does say that crashes during sprints often times go unrecorded unless there is an abandonment.

AI is researching media hits? Every rider has crashes off camera. Unless you're the team stud it's like the tree falling in the forest: only the squirrels hear it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I asked deepseek AI for the number of crashes for the top 10 Grand Tour Riders for the past 5 years. The data may not be 100% accurate, as we know these generative AI models can be dicey, but I think it is a good starting point. According to deepseek, Roglic has more crashes than the other 9 riders combined.

If you want more detailed information about all the crashes and sources of data, I can provide that. I just didn't want to create too much clutter in this post.

Also, it does say that crashes during sprints often times go unrecorded unless there is an abandonment.

C'mon, you can't be serious, please proof read at least to some extent, before trying to derail the debate based on something that AI said, due to somebody else being to lazy to do the work. For example if we go from bottom up it says Ciccone, 0 crashes, Ayuso hence didn't crash this edition either, van der Poel hence doesn't have a broken wrist either ... Who will bring this good news to them? FFS. I had to spend 5 minutes on my life, for free, dealing with AI nonsense. Please don't do it again, hopefully there is a policy on this forum, advising against doing that. Why? It just wastes human being time, for nothing in return.

 

[Berniece]

I asked deepseek AI for the number of crashes for the top 10 Grand Tour Riders for the past 5 years. The data may not be 100% accurate, as we know these generative AI models can be dicey, but I think it is a good starting point. According to deepseek, Roglic has more crashes than the other 9 riders combined.

If you want more detailed information about all the crashes and sources of data, I can provide that. I just didn't want to create too much clutter in this post.

Also, it does say that crashes during sprints often times go unrecorded unless there is an abandonment.

Data is off, I can remember Evenepoel crashing in Giro 2023 when he looked behind him in a flat stage and on the other side he was rammed by a sprint train.

I also think Roglic crashed even more than 9 times.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I also think Roglic crashed even more than 9 times.

It's more fair to assume all of them crashed at least 9 times in the last half a decade.

@all

But please lets don't waste any more time on this. If anybody wants to prove something please do the work and lets see the data, only after we can discuss that. Don't claim something and then be too lazy to prove it.

 

[Salvarani]

AI is amazing. Well done.

 

[red_flanders]

C'mon, you can't be serious, please proof read at least to some extent, before trying to derail the debate based on something that AI said, due to somebody else being to lazy to do the work. For example if we go from bottom up it says Ciccone, 0 crashes, Ayuso hence didn't crash this edition either, van der Poel hence doesn't have a broken wrist either ... Who will bring this good news to them? FFS. I had to spend 5 minutes on my life, for free, dealing with AI nonsense. Please don't do it again, hopefully there is a policy on this forum, advising against doing that. Why? It just wastes human being time, for nothing in return.

Moderation (please do not respond in thread).

There is no issue posting AI results, plus they were described as such clearly in the post, with the requisite caveats. I recommend reading the rules and I insist that forum members do not tell others in the thread what's acceptable to post. Issue? Report it.

Regular posting

I don't think the data set is perfect. It is however, about road racing, specifically GTs. See the chart title and label "GT crashes" in column 4.

Van der Poel crashed in an MTB race. If one is going to critique the data, and one should, the critique should be marginally aware of the data presented.

 

[Berniece]

I don't think the data set is perfect. It is however, about road racing, specifically GTs. See the chart title and label "GT crashes" in column 4.

Yeah, but even then the data isn't really correct. TDF 2022 Pogacar crashes in descend, and Vingegaard waits on him. Was a big moment in the race.

 

[zlev11]

I don't think the data set is perfect. It is however, about road racing, specifically GTs. See the chart title and label "GT crashes" in column 4.

Van der Poel crashed in an MTB race. If one is going to critique the data, and one should, the critique should be marginally aware of the data presented.

Ciccone crashed out of this Giro and that has him at 0. it's complete trash.

 

[Rackham]

AI is amazing. Well done.

It's completely borked, as usual. I hope you're being facetious but I can never tell these days.

 

[red_flanders]

Yeah, but even then the data isn't really correct. TDF 2022 Pogacar crashes in descend, and Vingegaard waits on him. Was a big moment in the race.

That's what I said, I don't think it's perfect. It's not about mountain biking, that is certain.

For sure someone should post a comprehensive, accurate table of GT crashes in the last [n] years if they have more accurate data and that kind of time.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@red_flanders

Please don't waste my time more on this. If anybody wants to prove something, please do the work, don't be lazy. I already did my part and proved the data presented is useless, as a basis of any serious discussion. On top of that i already created a list of top 6 riders and their latest encounters with more serious crashes. More than enough for sensible people.

It's only due to somebody else being too lazy, claiming something in one liners, not prepared to invest the effort into proving it, we now still have this discussion.

 

[red_flanders]

@red_flanders

Please don't waste my time more on this. If anybody wants to prove something, please do the work, don't be lazy. I already did my part and proved the data presented is useless, as a basis of any serious discussion. On top of that i already created a list of top 6 riders and their latest encounters with more serious crashes. More than enough for sensible people.

It's only due to somebody else being too lazy, claiming something in one liners, not prepared to invest the effort into proving it, we now still have this discussion.

Moderation (Please do not reply in thread).
I'm sure I JUST said to stop telling forum members what do post in threads. And I said to not reply to moderation in the thread. Last warning. If you have an issue, report it.

 

[zlev11]

That's what I said, I don't think it's perfect. It's not about mountain biking, that is certain.

For sure someone should post a comprehensive, accurate table of GT crashes in the last [n] years if they have more accurate data and that kind of time.

"I don't think it's perfect" is the understatement of the century. not a single line of it is correct.

 

[Rackham]

So I asked deepseek AI a question myself, this is what I got.

Seems legit if the expectation is that AI has the accuracy of a meth addict.

 

[zlev11]

Pogacar: crashed in 2022 Hautacam stage, not on the list. crashed early on in the 2023 Courchevel stage, not on the list.
Roglic: didn't crash on stage 6. missing crashes from 2019 Giro, 2022 Vuelta, 2021 and 2024 Tour de France
Remco: wasn't even in the 2024 Giro
Van Aert: 0? really? have you seen his knee? (amongst other crashes such as the one in the 2019 TDF ITT)
Pederson: crashed out of the Tour last year
Ciccone: just crashed out of the Giro five days ago

yea you could say it's not perfect

 

[red_flanders]

"I don't think it's perfect" is the understatement of the century. not a single line of it is correct.

That's fine. The OP also said it wasn't 100% and called it a starting point. There have been plenty of caveats and the requisite framing.

No one is claiming it's totally accurate, it clearly is omitting crashes.

 

[FroomeWagon]

AI is researching media hits? Every rider has crashes off camera. Unless you're the team stud it's like the tree falling in the forest: only the squirrels hear it.

Based on the search results, here is a comprehensive table of the top 10 Grand Tour riders and their documented crashes over the past 5 years (2020–2025). Data focuses on incidents reported in official race records, news sources, and team statements, though minor crashes may be underreported

 

[CyclistAbi]

For reasonable people the top 6 list ought to be enough, to prove the point that was made and especially in an internet forum debate.

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As for the one line nitpickers, claiming something, not prepared to do the work. Or even to go as far as basing discussions on false data, just no.

I mean i was educated, that is not against the forum rules, fine. But taking it seriously, good luck with that.