Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

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Netserk

Netserk

Apr 30, 2011
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SafeBet said:
I don't really understand the need to compare Roglic to Pogacar.
Pog is a better and stronger rider overall. Expecting Roglic to win the Tour riding mano a mano against him would be kind of irrational. Which is why I believe Jumbo's strategy to go with 2 leaders makes sense, even if it probably won't work.
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I don't understand how anyone can be certain about that. Rogla is so far ahead of non-Slovenians (as we saw in the Vuelta last year), and while he appears far more vulnerable than Pogi, his top level is stratospheric too.

We've seen them head-to-head in top condition in the first two stages of the Tour last year, Itzulia before that and the 2020 Tour. I did not see Rogla unable to put up a fight.
 
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Rackham

Rackham

Jul 16, 2015
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I'll go out on a limb & suggest Jumbo Visma have changed the preparation of WvA & Roglic to peak at the right time this season & not too soon. WvA mentioned this with regards to his own season (based on missing some of his objective last year), but I wouldn't be surprised if they're also doing the same with Rog as well considering how last season ended (i.e. super strong midweek in Milan-Turin, then he faded in Lombardia).

I just never got the feeling he was at his best during Paris-Nice, unlike Pogacar for example who's firing on all cylinders & having all sorts of fun smashing the competition. And then there's also the context of the race which should be taken into account as well, i.e. with loads of DNF's due to illness & everyone suffering to varying extents in the race.

I'll only start to worry "if" Rogla has a stomp fail in the Flèche Wallonne next month (i.e. win or lose versus Alaph, he should still be able to drop a nuke).
 
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bNator

bNator

Apr 14, 2021
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I'm also not convinced Pogi is (much) better than Rogla. At least not until this season. Sure right now we could revisit all their past performances and analyse all the possible what-if scenarios but let's not forget one simple fact: When they are both racing, Rogla beats Pogi more often than Pogi beats Rogla. And while this argument doesn't point to the fact Rogla is better it sure does prove Pogi is not so much better that Rogla could not beat him mano-a-mano.

That was until this season. And this season it could all be down to their priorities. Not even discussing some anayses that put Roglas performance on Saturday (W/kg wise/druation wise) on a very similar level to Pogačars and admitting Pogačar has indeed had a better start to the season (kind of hard to argue that one).
 
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pablohidalgo7

Aug 31, 2014
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The climbing level of Paris Nice was in general much higher than Tirreno and the data shows that clearly, so I'm not worried about Rogla, he just had a bad day due to bad weather on the last stage for the reason that whatever, but he convinced me quite a bit in the time trial, in Turini and even on the first day and in the stage where he was alone and put the hammer down to chase DFM on a 4-5% climb.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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@bNator

On PN i would say too frequent isolation was the main problem. Due to PN being a hard race. But the final toll was in my opinion that glorious stomp. This just messes with the body too much. And on top of that it didn't help JV being aggressive on the last stage.

I feel that JV should acknowledge that and rather sacrifice a stage win or two and to focus on the GC instead. When it comes to Rogla on a race such as the Tour.
 
Jumbo Visma Fan :)

Jumbo Visma Fan :)

Oct 13, 2021
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CyclistAbi said:
@bNator

On PN i would say too frequent isolation was the main problem. Due to PN being a hard race. But the final toll was in my opinion that glorious stomp. This just messes with the body too much. And on top of that it didn't help JV being aggressive on the last stage.

I feel that JV should acknowledge that and rather sacrifice a stage win or two and to focus on the GC instead. When it comes to Rogla on a race such as the Tour.
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It also didn’t help that Roglic didn’t have Kuss, who I believe is his most trusted domestique(yes, Kuss is my favorite rider, so take that with a grain of salt).
 
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SafeBet

SafeBet

Sep 2, 2011
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Netserk said:
I don't understand how anyone can be certain about that. Rogla is so far ahead of non-Slovenians (as we saw in the Vuelta last year), and while he appears far more vulnerable than Pogi, his top level is stratospheric too.

We've seen them head-to-head in top condition in the first two stages of the Tour last year, Itzulia before that and the 2020 Tour. I did not see Rogla unable to put up a fight.
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Fair enough.
I don't believe for one second Roglic can put Pogacar in trouble unless his team helps him but I have zero evidence to support my belief.
Just a general feeling.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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As for Milan-San Remo tactics. Rogla to be tucked in somewhere at the back? During most of the duration of the race? To emerge at the end to try to help van Aert or to switch to plan B if Pogačar goes and only Rogla can follow?
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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CyclistAbi said:
As for Milan-San Remo tactics. Rogla to be tucked in somewhere at the back? During most of the duration of the race? To emerge at the end to try to help van Aert or to switch to plan B if Pogačar goes and only Rogla can follow?
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Nah.

As for Milan-San Remo tactics. Rogla to be tucked in somewhere at the back. During most of the duration of the race. Unless at some point van Aert decides otherwise. To emerge at the end and of the race to try to help van Aert take the win. No plan B whatsoever involved. Stick to (in front) of van Aert regardless.

Yes. That is more like it.

Rogla van Aert.
 
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CyclistAbi

May 29, 2019
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As for the Tour 2022 tactics.

Try to gain advantage in ITT, cobbles, cross winds and if possible TTT. Beyond that result to as less stage wins as possible, don't stomp, take the laid back approach as a team and let others do the work on most stages. This is a bit problematic as for van Aert it will be crucial to drop sprinters on some stages. Maybe first to let others do a bit of that and to engage more closer to the end if needed.

If they don't do that Pogi will just continue to exploit their two biggest strengths. That is team aggressiveness and stomp. Instead they should strike where Pogi is the strongest. That is prepare the field for Pogi to feel comfortable to initiate an attack. After a while to regroup and to bring him back.

We'll see.
 
johnymax

johnymax

May 8, 2014
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cen said:
I think cold weather is no bueno for Rog.
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I agree, but it has to be really cold. He said after the stage that he probably overheated, because he had too much clothes on for too long. He has shown in the past, he can handle cold rainy days in the summer like in the Covadonga stage. On the other hand, when it gets cold in March, it can be a problem for him.
 
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Gargamel35

Sep 5, 2020
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Despite "problems" he still won PN race.

Pogačar is a monster. A perfect machine for GT races. Roglič is only human. Probably the best version yet but still a human with flaws.
TDF is going to be a war between machine and humans. We all know humans can't beat machines but we'll root for this guy until the final fight. Because despite machines superiority, there is a small light of hope, that human could find a way to win.
 
johnymax

johnymax

May 8, 2014
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Gargamel35 said:
Despite "problems" he still won PN race.

Pogačar is a monster. A perfect machine for GT races. Roglič is only human. Probably the best version yet but still a human with flaws.
TDF is going to be a war between machine and humans. We all know humans can't beat machines but we'll root for this guy until the final fight. Because despite machines superiority, there is a small light of hope, that human could find a way to win.
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Pogi is not a machine. He'll have his bad days like in Ventoux stage or in Bretagne Classic or in EC, both TT and RR.

Also I think Rogla's bad day is being overblown by many. He was still 3rd best on the day and still won the race. Yes, with a big help from Wout, but he had to be able to follow him. Quintana was there, but he couldn't. I think 100% of the peloton, Pogačar included, would sign for such a bad day.

Having said that, from what we've seen so far, Pogačar is the favourite for TdF. One has to be a big homer not to see it. But I don't think he's unbeatable and I don't think peak Rogla is far behind. It'll depend a lot on Roglic's form on the day Pogačar hits his super termonuclear form. If Primož isn't feeling super that day, he can lose minutes and everything should be over. If he can contain his gap to under a minute, he remains in the game and people will finally see how attacking and aggressive of a rider he is by nature.
 
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pablohidalgo7

Aug 31, 2014
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johnymax said:
I agree, but it has to be really cold. He said after the stage that he probably overheated, because he had too much clothes on for too long. He has shown in the past, he can handle cold rainy days in the summer like in the Covadonga stage. On the other hand, when it gets cold in March, it can be a problem for him.
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Any source for that? I have read this in several sites and Twitter but I didnt found yet the original source.
 
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