Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

You are not wrong in your deductions and analogies. However - and I have already posted this to you - have you considered the possibility that Wright also could not react in time to stop the crash (which would be Roglič's fault)? That he did all he could (considering his circumstances) to avoid the crash?

In my opinion it's really not about the blame. Blame is something for the instant media. It's about on how to proceed and improve in the future. Here i feel Roglič has a point. He can train as hard as he can. He can improve his riding skills as much as he can. But if the other rider(s) in the peloton doesn't have your back. When you do something stupid. Then it's all to no avail. Here hence something needs to shift. A lengthy and hard thing to do.

Don't be reckless rather relegate.

That is a start. But obviously not even that will become the standard over night.

 

[CyclistAbi]

This analogy makes no sense as braking to stop a crash on the highway rather than making contact with another car is clearly the better option.

Exactly.

As for this being a race. That really doesn't change much. The duty of all parties involved is to do your best to avoid the worst outcome. A crash.

If you really believe that Wright is the one at fault here, maybe you can do us all a favour, why don't you write a proposed rule that can be used to stop this perfidious behaviour by Wright that also doesn't legitimise the sprint of Groenewegen in Poland.

What i did is i didn't stop at Rogličes offense. I focused on the other party too. And i did detect a offense there. As for the rule. In that split second.

Rather relegate then be reckless.

P.S. I know people will complain at first. All over the internet. And likely will blame you for it at first. But on the long run it makes sense to stay firmly behind this stance.

 

[Bonimenier]

Exactly.

As for this being a race. That really doesn't change much. The duty of all parties involved is to do your best to avoid the worst outcome. A crash.



What i did is i didn't stop at Rogličes offense. I focused on the other party too. And i did detect a offense there. As for the rule. In that split second.

Rather relegate then be reckless.

P.S. I know people will complain at first. All over the internet. And likely will blame you for it at first. But on the long run it makes sense to stay firmly behind this stance.

Your detector is broken.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Your detector is broken.

Nah. I can still sense your sarcasm.

 

[EliseeReclus]

Exactly.

As for this being a race. That really doesn't change much. The duty of all parties involved is to do your best to avoid the worst outcome. A crash.

So there's no harm here? Wright took an action that avoided him crashing, rather than an action that could have caused both Roglic and him to crash.

So come on, what's the rule that wouldn't also apply to Groenewegen and Jakobsen? Is Jakobsen at fault for not braking to avoid the crash?

 

[CyclistAbi]

You write posts on here as if you are trying to fill a word count on an essay

Well judge for yourself. All this instat media. On where world leaders are contesting themself with one liners. It's just so unreasonably stupid that i have to do my part. And after all it's a sunny Friday afternoon. What else is there to do. On the other hand. I will take you up on your offer. And will end it for now with a one liner. One word.

Sun.

 

[CyclistAbi]

So there's no harm here? Wright took an action that avoided him crashing, rather than an action that could have caused both Roglic and him to crash.

So come on, what's the rule that wouldn't also apply to Groenewegen and Jakobsen? Is Jakobsen at fault for not braking to avoid the crash?

What Wright did he rather accelerated then used his brakes. Had plenty of time to prepare for the contact and to foresee the outcome. Rather went through regardless. This is something that needs to change in the future. To exercise the other option more. Lets say if now sprinters are set to get through 100%. For in the future to that come down to 95%. That is all there is to it. It it's stupid to try to pass. Then don't. Result to relegation or other options. As if you won't. Then tomorrow likely it's your turn to hit the deck. Anyway.

Sun.

 

[EliseeReclus]

What Wright did he rather accelerated then used his brakes. Had plenty of time to prepare for the contact and to foresee the outcome. Rather went through regardless. This is something that needs to change in the future. To exercise the other option more. Lets say if now sprinters are set to get through 100%. For in the future to that come down to 95%. That is all there is to it. It it's stupid to try to pass. Then don't. Result to relegation or other options. As if you won't. Then tomorrow likely it's your turn to hit the deck. Anyway.

Sun.

He held his speed and position relative to the riders in front of him. He stopped himself crashing through his actions. There is no guarantee that by the time he knew the reckless action Roglic was taking that braking would have kept them both upright, it's better in this case to protect yourself first. Correct decision.

It's a simple yes or no, was Jakobsen at fault for that crash or not?

 

[RedheadDane]

What Wright did he rather accelerated then used his brakes. Had plenty of time to prepare for the contact and to foresee the outcome. Rather went through regardless. This is something that needs to change in the future. To exercise the other option more. Lets say if now sprinters are set to get through 100%. For in the future to that come down to 95%. That is all there is to it. It it's stupid to try to pass. Then don't. Result to relegation or other options. As if you won't. Then tomorrow likely it's your turn to hit the deck. Anyway.

Sun.

What? Are you seriously suggesting that if a rider can't pass the rider in front, because the rider in front is deviating from his line, then the rider behind should simply not pass?
No... not that's definitely not gonna cause any rider who's at the front in a sprint, but can maybe sense someone coming from behind, to just deviate wildly from his line to prevent himself from being overtaken. No... never...

 

[bNator]

In my opinion it's really not about the blame. Blame is something for the instant media. It's about on how to proceed and improve in the future. Here i feel Roglič has a point. He can train as hard as he can. He can improve his riding skills as much as he can. But if the other rider(s) in the peloton doesn't have your back. When you do something stupid. Then it's all to no avail. Here hence something needs to shift. A lengthy and hard thing to do.

Don't be reckless rather relegate.

That is a start. But obviously not even that will become the standard over night.

But how about a different point - maybe he should not break the rules and change lanes next time? I think that approach would serve him much better... First and foremost it's him changing lanes that caused his crash. Ok - Wright may or may not have had an opprotunity to react differently in a way that the crash would be avoided. But surely Roglič's masterplan can't be him breaking the rules and then relying on goodwill of his fellow cyclists to keep him on his bike?

 

[Red Rick]

Thread title checks out

We haven't had enough Roglstomp and now we've lostour fking marbles.

 

[bNator]

Thread title checks out

We haven't had enough Roglstomp and now we've lostour fking marbles.

Yes - but what can we do? If we stop responding to his posts, all that remains will be 10 @CyclistAbi posts at the bottom of this thread claiming that Wright is reckless...

 

[Red Rick]

Yes - but what can we do? If we stop responding to his posts, all that remains will be 10 @CyclistAbi posts at the bottom of this thread claiming that Wright is reckless...

Would look kinda funny wouldnt it

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes - but what can we do? If we stop responding to his posts, all that remains will be 10 @CyclistAbi posts at the bottom of this thread claiming that Wright is reckless...

And here we are, arguing with a guy who thinks that...

1: GC time on sprint stages should be taken 5 Ks - or more - from the line.
2: Collarbones are the most important body part to protect.

 

[ice&fire]

And here we are, arguing with a guy who thinks that...

1: GC time on sprint stages should be taken 5 Ks - or more - from the line.
2: Collarbones are the most important body part to protect.

1. An exception will be made if your pet rider biggest opponent suffers a mechanical, because it will obviously be fake.

 

[EliseeReclus]

And here we are, arguing with a guy who thinks that...

1: GC time on sprint stages should be taken 5 Ks - or more - from the line.
2: Collarbones are the most important body part to protect.

Maybe we can solve all three things at the same point: make all barriers inside the final 5km out of the same stuff they make the edges of pinball machines from. That way riders can deviate all they want and go into the barriers and they'll just ping around rather than crashing. No more broken collarbones or GC crashes and riders are free to take any position they want. Sorted.

 

[RedheadDane]

Maybe we can solve all three things at the same point: make all barriers inside the final 5km out of the same stuff they make the edges of pinball machines from. That way riders can deviate all they want and go into the barriers and they'll just ping around rather than crashing. No more broken collarbones or GC crashes and riders are free to take any position they want. Sorted.

And now I'm imagining riders just going "Ping-ping! Ping-ping! Ping-ping! Ping-ping!" across the road. Thanks for that mental image...

 

[topcat]

 

[Red Rick]

1. An exception will be made if your pet rider biggest opponent suffers a mechanical, because it will obviously be fake.

I won't complain if mechanical faker actually got the time of the largest group/the group he was actually in at the point he stopped for the bike change.

 

[jmdirt]

You said it yourself that the earth is not flat. Hence the discussion is not only about the party you would like it to be. And to end there. Roglič was not last in the line. Hence there was still something going on behind him. Influencing the outcome of this incident. It was not a hay bale. To say the least.

The question we came down to is. If the rider in front of you deviates from the line. Do you get a free pass in crashing him out or not. Or is it your duty to do everything in your power to save the situation. This is what we are discussing now. Roglič and Wright already did their part. And are now already focused on Il Lombardia and WC. They are really not that important in this discussion anymore.

People saying it's 100% Roglič fault. What they are actually saying is if the rider in front deviates from the line. The rider coming from behind. As long as he doesn't deviate from the line. He can crash the rider at front and there is no offense involved whatsoever under no circumstances.

In my opinion the answer here is clear. You don't get a free pass. As a rider coming from behind. It's your duty to save the situation. For it to not result in crash.

Or for an analogy. If you are riding on a highway and the car in front of you is starting to move into your lane. You have plenty of time to acknowledge what is going on. As the rider doesn't see you in his rear mirror the crash is imminent. If you don't do something about it. Now if there will be a video. Where there was no tail lights. On top of that a massive acceleration to be detected. Resulting in a crash. Or lets say somebody stole a couple of eggs from your basket. And you shot him.

Goof luck with the judge.

I can understand on why some people would rather stay at superficial take on it. As it aligns with their claim nothing can be done.

That is not true. In this case crash could be avoided if the rider coming from behind would back off and use other alternatives. Like use rider in front as a lead out, pass him latter on or from the other side. Or to at least shout out. Get out of my lane. Anything. To avoid the crash. Or if the sprint was ruined to relegate the rider in front after the race.

That is how it should be done in modern cycling. This is the standard.

In this case in my opinion the offense is nicely distributed in between both parties. One riding without due care and attention and the other one riding recklessly. But feel free to have other opinion.

Let me stop you right in your first sentence. I have enjoyed PR as a racer for several years now, and barely knew of FW other than some flashes here and there. So that ends your assertion. Its not about who the riders are for me so stop with that poor line of reasoning.

PR was not in a line, he tried to barge into an existing line. You've even come around to saying so yourself.

OK, I'll relent, PR was 99.5% at fault.

EDIT: The earth is flat statement is because there is no proof to support that while there is unarguable proof for it being round.

 

[SHAD0W93]

OK, I'll relent, PR was 99.5% at fault.

The other 0.5%, his bike

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

I'll go with the more experienced rider

 

[jmdirt]

Thread title checks out

We haven't had enough Roglstomp and now we've lostour fking marbles.

Thank you for assuming that I had any marbles to lose!

 

[Oldermanish]

You are not wrong in your deductions and analogies. However - and I have already posted this to you - have you considered the possibility that Wright also could not react in time to stop the crash (which would be Roglič's fault)? That he did all he could (considering his circumstances) to avoid the crash?

There are possible 2 scenarios:

1. It all happened very fast and Wright had no time to react. Once Roglič was close enough all he could do was make sure he himself doesn't go down together with Roglič
2. Wright saw what was going on, knew they were going to crash, had time to think it over and then consciously decided he would not take any measures to avoid the crash.

If it was second scenario, then it's still Roglič's fault but Wright is a bit of a .... But we have absolutely no reason to suspect/believe it was the second scenario, let alone enough reason to make an accusation.

Unless Wright possesses the power of levitation he couldn't begin to brake hard enough to avoid taking a big hit up front, there was nowhere to go except the barriers. RULE #1 IN A CRASH STARTED BY OTHERS: DON'T CRASH!

 

[SHAD0W93]

Are we sure the crash didn’t occur from a greater power at be trying to correct their screw up of allowing Rabobank to not only win the Tour GC but 6 stages, KoM, and points classification?