Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

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🎶🎶 Ti amo, ti amo, ti amo, ti amo... 🎶🎶 Giro d'Italia, primul Mare Tur al anului - de pe 11 mai pe Eurosport 1 și Eurosport 1 HD! 🚴 #Giro102

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I am officially hyped.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

28.816 Aufrufe | Reel by Eurosport Romania

🎶🎶 Ti amo, ti amo, ti amo, ti amo... 🎶🎶 Giro d'Italia, primul Mare Tur al anului - de pe 11 mai pe Eurosport 1 și Eurosport 1 HD! 🚴 #Giro102

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I am officially hyped.

Haha he looks so uncomfortable

 

[Eeslliw]

In case Primoz crashes out of the Giro, he‘ll probably go to the TdF, anyways. Like in previous years: crash out of the Tour, to be super in the Vuelta.

If he crashes out of Giro I would be more worried about him continuing to race. There was interview with his wife where she said she was worried if Primoz would even get back to racing (after Vuelta crash). His reaction after that crash is telling enough he is close to it. It has been building up after that Dauphine crash (2020) and every time he has to come back it takes a lot of mental strenght. So next time it happens he might as well say goodbye. Being 33y old doesn't help.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Why? If I ran that team that’s exactly how I’d deploy the riders. He ain’t gonna beat Vingo and he’s got a better shot by far of winning the Giro than anyone else on that team. They could win two GTs. They’ll likely podium both.

if he was the best rider they’d have him do the Tour. Hardly ***ing him over.

They don't care about the Giro. They very recently said they'd rather win one other Tour than three Giri, IIRC.

It's only to avoid leadership issues. That would have been a perfectly valid reason with Vingegaard being the new #1 . ...if Rog was just a random nobody. But he's not. He's given the team a lot. Vingo included. Maybe it's time the team did something back.

The Giro will likely come too soon for Roglic, anyway. I don't think it's a wise choice with the remainder of his career in mind. He won't win and more than likely won't podium, either.

 

[rokovski]

3 GTs for Slovenia in season?

 

[theyoungest]

They don't care about the Giro. They very recently said they'd rather win one other Tour than three Giri, IIRC.

That's just nonsense. I know where that answer is from, it's from a podcast where Merijn Zeeman got a couple of these questions: 'you have to choose: win three Giros or one Tour'. Of course he's going to say the Tour.

Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean you have to question their intentions. As for 'giving back', I don't think they've ever denied him something he wanted to do, but maybe you know otherwise. He should have won the Tour in 2020, he knows it, everyone knows it. It's his own fault he didn't, however painful that may be.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Yeah I worry the Giro is too soon. He has taken a ton of time off and taken a lot of physical blows between crashes and surgery. I’m not sure his condition will be where he needs it to be.

 

[Red Rick]

Yeah I worry the Giro is too soon. He has taken a ton of time off and taken a lot of physical blows between crashes and surgery. I’m not sure his condition will be where he needs it to be.

I don't really worry about that. I don't think Jumbo would go to the Giro with him if he couldn't make it in form

 

[Andy schleck]

That's just nonsense. I know where that answer is from, it's from a podcast where Merijn Zeeman got a couple of these questions: 'you have to choose: win three Giros or one Tour'. Of course he's going to say the Tour.

Just because you don't like the outcome doesn't mean you have to question their intentions. As for 'giving back', I don't think they've ever denied him something he wanted to do, but maybe you know otherwise. He should have won the Tour in 2020, he knows it, everyone knows it. It's his own fault he didn't, however painful that may be.

Why roglic should had won the tour 2020? Pogacar was better than him. Pogacar even could have won that tour more "easily" if didn't lost time in the echelons on stage 7. The only time roglic dropped pogacar was on col de la loze, and he just lost 20 seconds.

 

[Andy schleck]

Yeah I worry the Giro is too soon. He has taken a ton of time off and taken a lot of physical blows between crashes and surgery. I’m not sure his condition will be where he needs it to be.

Don't worry about that. He will enter in the giro in his best shape. You should worry only with roglic being able to not crash during the giro.

 

[Skijumper Roglic fan]

Primoz IMHO should go to the Giro the way Jan Ullrich went to the Giro in 2006: no pressure, and the TdF always in mind. In Jan‘s case, this paid off: ITT win in Pontedera, great shape and GC victory in TdS, and best ever shape in Strasbourg at the start of the TdF 2006.

 

[theyoungest]

Why roglic should had won the tour 2020? Pogacar was better than him. Pogacar even could have won that tour more "easily" if didn't lost time in the echelons on stage 7. The only time roglic dropped pogacar was on col de la loze, and he just lost 20 seconds.

Because he rode a subpar time trial... there were other times in the race where Roglic was stronger than Pogacar btw.

 

[red_flanders]

They don't care about the Giro. They very recently said they'd rather win one other Tour than three Giri, IIRC.

It's only to avoid leadership issues. That would have been a perfectly valid reason with Vingegaard being the new #1 . ...if Rog was just a random nobody. But he's not. He's given the team a lot. Vingo included. Maybe it's time the team did something back.

The Giro will likely come too soon for Roglic, anyway. I don't think it's a wise choice with the remainder of his career in mind. He won't win and more than likely won't podium, either.

Why won’t he be ready? It’s in May. None of that makes any sense to me. Sounds more like you’re just irritated that he’s not going to get a chance at the Tour. Which is fine, but they’re not ***ing him.

 

[samhocking]

Roglic's had the same shoulder surgery as Thomas where the take bone from your leg and close the opening in your shoulder with it to help prevent further dislocations. Roglic has had his surgery a little ahead of Thomas, but then Giro is also ahead of Thomas's target this year, but it's tight he can be really 100% by may, but it depends how his rehab and physio goes I guess, that's what determines how fast you recover as I understand it.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

I don't think a healthy roglic being at his best, will lose a lot of time to remco on the TTs. We are talking of a olympic itt winner.

The Olympic TT was by far the best long TT in his career, in such an order we can speak of an outlier.

I think Roglic should count on a 1.5s loss per km realistically. That's not the end of the world, it equates to 1m45s. But it is definitely time he should take into account when devising a battle plan.

 

[Andy schleck]

The Olympic TT was by far the best long TT in his career, in such an order we can speak of an outlier.

I think Roglic should count on a 1.5s loss per km realistically. That's not the end of the world, it equates to 1m45s. But it is definitely time he should take into account when devising a battle plan.

He just lost 48 seconds to remco in a 30 km TT on the last vuelta, and he wasn't at his best.
I think remco will gain time to roglic, but not that much. I think he will lose 1 min to remco in the first 2 TTs.
The last TT it will be quite balanced between the two, because it's almost a mountain TT.

Just predictions, if roglic don't crash again.

 

[pablohidalgo7]

The Olympic TT was by far the best long TT in his career, in such an order we can speak of an outlier.

I think Roglic should count on a 1.5s loss per km realistically. That's not the end of the world, it equates to 1m45s. But it is definitely time he should take into account when devising a battle plan.

Is more a thing a of the parcours of the TT than the length. Roglic has been just a top (maybe even the best some years) specialist in hilly TTs uphill TTs and mix TTs(La Planche is the Outlier here), he has great results in different kind of distance.

He simply has not enough power in pure flat TTs like the one in La Vuelta againts Remco or the similar one in Dauphiné versus Ganna or Wout for example.

I assume he can lose between 45-50 sec with Remco again in the "long" flat TT, but not more than 15 secs or so in the first one, because is short and with a hard final perfect for him. In the last TT, Rogla is for me the top favourite over Remco, but it depends of how the rest of the race goes.

 

[Tim Cahill]

It's a cold move from TJV isn't it, reminds me a bit of Brailsford not letting Wiggins have a crack at the Tour in 2014. He was on the way down and Froome on the way up, but all anyone was asking out on the roads was where's Wiggo.

The right move perhaps, the writings been on the wall about the hierarchy since Stage 8 of the Dauphine when he appeared to be struggling to hold the wheel a bit. It's just a team lacking in any sort of romance. The Giro is my favourite race, but it isn't the one Roglic wants deep down.

 

[tobydawq]

It's a cold move from TJV isn't it, reminds me a bit of Brailsford not letting Wiggins have a crack at the Tour in 2014. He was on the way down and Froome on the way up, but all anyone was asking out on the roads was where's Wiggo.

The right move perhaps, the writings been on the wall about the hierarchy since Stage 8 of the Dauphine when he appeared to be struggling to hold the wheel a bit. It's just a team lacking in any sort of romance. The Giro is my favourite race, but it isn't the one Roglic wants deep down.

Wiggins didn't want anything to do with the Tour after having won it.

 

[Red Rick]

The Olympic TT was by far the best long TT in his career, in such an order we can speak of an outlier.

I think Roglic should count on a 1.5s loss per km realistically. That's not the end of the world, it equates to 1m45s. But it is definitely time he should take into account when devising a battle plan.

Olympic TT wasn't an outlier, it was like just over 1s/min over Kung and Ganna on a very hilly parcours, plus I think he carried less fatigue from the Tour and road race. Dumoulin got 2nd on limited preperation, I don't think the field performed that strongly.

Vuelta TT is a much more useful data point, but I also think the range in such flat TTs is gonna be pretty narrow. Rog probably wasn't great in that TT, the gap in the flat TTs should be 1s/min on the low and and 1.5s/min on the higher end in the first 2 TTs, which is gonna be like a 40s difference which in turn doesn't change that much.

The mountains have a much bigger margin of error, and there also lie tactical mistakes not to repeat. Like when you're bad, you should not try to follow Evenepoel, because you'll blow up 100% of the time every time and maximize your own losses. That's especially hard against Evenepoel who loves to go very hard early on a climb. I haven't really checked if he does a positive split when he does apart from Praeres where he very clearly did.

I think the plan should be to try to limit losses and mainly go for bonus seconds and last km roglstomps before you get to the big mountains starting with Crans Montana. Then the time gap and form should dictate when you start attacking.

 

[Forever The Best]

Olympic TT wasn't an outlier, it was like just over 1s/min over Kung and Ganna on a very hilly parcours, plus I think he carried less fatigue from the Tour and road race. Dumoulin got 2nd on limited preperation, I don't think the field performed that strongly.

Vuelta TT is a much more useful data point, but I also think the range in such flat TTs is gonna be pretty narrow. Rog probably wasn't great in that TT, the gap in the flat TTs should be 1s/min on the low and and 1.5s/min on the higher end in the first 2 TTs, which is gonna be like a 40s difference which in turn doesn't change that much.

The mountains have a much bigger margin of error, and there also lie tactical mistakes not to repeat. Like when you're bad, you should not try to follow Evenepoel, because you'll blow up 100% of the time every time and maximize your own losses. That's especially hard against Evenepoel who loves to go very hard early on a climb. I haven't really checked if he does a positive split when he does apart from Praeres where he very clearly did.

I think the plan should be to try to limit losses and mainly go for bonus seconds and last km roglstomps before you get to the big mountains starting with Crans Montana. Then the time gap and form should dictate when you start attacking.

Croix de Coeur is a monstrous climb. May be too tough for Evenepoel if Roglic decides to attack hard. They didn't have those kind of stages in Vuelta last year. Closest one was the one to Sierra-Nevada last year and even there there was less climbing in the stage and they took the easier road after Hazallanas, and Evenepoel still lost time. ( not much though )

By the way field at Giro looking good with Roglic and Evenepoel.

 

[Tim Cahill]

Wiggins didn't want anything to do with the Tour after having won it.

Yeah I've heard him talk about that a bit, he certainly did want to ride it in 2014 however, home roads and all that.

Bradley Wiggins 'gutted' to miss Tour de France 2014

Britain's Bradley Wiggins, the 2012 Tour de France winner, said on Friday he was "gutted" not to be selected for Team Sky to compete in this year's race.

www.smh.com.au

Expect we will be seeing a lot of PR in the coming months about how the parcours is perfect for Roglic, how it's always been his big dream etc.

 

[tobydawq]

Yeah I've heard him talk about that a bit, he certainly did want to ride it in 2014 however, home roads and all that.

Bradley Wiggins 'gutted' to miss Tour de France 2014

Britain's Bradley Wiggins, the 2012 Tour de France winner, said on Friday he was "gutted" not to be selected for Team Sky to compete in this year's race.

www.smh.com.au

Expect we will be seeing a lot of PR in the coming months about how the parcours is perfect for Roglic, how it's always been his big dream etc.

Fair enough but I really don't think this is the same. Wiggins would certainly not have had GC aspirations in 2014.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

As for 'giving back', I don't think they've ever denied him something he wanted to do, but maybe you know otherwise.

This minor issue alone is enough to expect a bit of leniency:

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...and-misdiagnosis-everyone-kept-quiet-about-it

How they handled that... how they treated one of their star riders, it just boggles the mind. They wanted that TDF win so bad that they were willing to do whatever. Perfectly understandable I suppose, but to then force that same rider to target the Giro ...I don't know, it's just all kinds of wrong to me.

They have also denied him adequate team support in the past. He has commented on that several times, including here:

Talking to the Slovenian Press Association, Roglic told how his lack of Jumbo-Visma teammates in the high mountains and his form leading into the race affected his chances of taking the Maglia Rosa.
'The difference with the other favourites was that I was left alone in the key moments. And everybody raced against me,' said Roglic.

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/6543...rom-winning-primoz-roglic-on-his-giro-ditalia

Bennett was the team's #1 mountain dom back then. Yet they kept him for the Tour. Their 2019 Giro squad was a mixed bag at best. Riders like Bouwman were pretty useless back then (at that level)

 

[theyoungest]

This minor issue alone is enough to expect a bit of leniency:

https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...and-misdiagnosis-everyone-kept-quiet-about-it

How they handled that... how they treated one of their star riders, it just boggles the mind. They wanted that TDF win so bad that they were willing to do whatever. Perfectly understandable I suppose, but to then force that same rider to target the Giro ...I don't know, it's just all kinds of wrong to me.

What's wrong to me is a random physio talking about this to the press. That's what boggles the mind. In the Netherlands that would even be illegal, I don't know about Slovenia. It's very disrespectful of his patient either way.

They have also denied him adequate team support in the past. He has commented on that several times, including here:

Talking to the Slovenian Press Association, Roglic told how his lack of Jumbo-Visma teammates in the high mountains and his form leading into the race affected his chances of taking the Maglia Rosa.
'The difference with the other favourites was that I was left alone in the key moments. And everybody raced against me,' said Roglic.

https://www.cyclist.co.uk/news/6543...rom-winning-primoz-roglic-on-his-giro-ditalia

Bennett was the team's #1 mountain dom back then. Yet they kept him for the Tour. Their 2019 Giro squad was a mixed bag at best. Riders like Bouwman were pretty useless back then (at that level)

As I remember he had quite a good team on paper, but none of them were really performing up to their usual standards. You call that 'denying him' adequate support, because in your way of thinking there has to be some nefarious genius in the Jumbo management that tries to sabotage Roglic. Just like now you think that they're 'forcing' him to ride the Giro, as if they didn't discuss it with him. Maybe he wants to ride the Giro, Roglic and the Tour hasn't exactly been a happy marriage so far.