Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[bNator]

I think the TDF situation is fairly simple. Roglič is arguably no longer in the top tier for the tour (which doesn't mean he can't win it if circumstances align to his favor). And that's not gonna change next year. If anything, due to age, next year the gap will be bigger rather than smaller. If he can recover, then his chances this year are as good as they get.

It's a simple decision - is he going to pursue TDF in the future or not? If he is and can recover from Giro in time, then why not this year.

 

[Netserk]

I'm quite confident that if he aims for the Tour next year, he will show up in better physical condition than he did in the Giro and than he can in the Tour this year.

My greatest hope for next year is that both he and Vingegaard rides Tour-Vuelta.

 

[Peyroteo94]

I think the TDF situation is fairly simple. Roglič is arguably no longer in the top tier for the tour (which doesn't mean he can't win it if circumstances align to his favor). And that's not gonna change next year. If anything, due to age, next year the gap will be bigger rather than smaller. If he can recover, then his chances this year are as good as they get.

It's a simple decision - is he going to pursue TDF in the future or not? If he is and can recover from Giro in time, then why not this year.

He has a deal with Jumbo. He helps Vingegaard this year and next year, Vingegaard will race the Giro

 

[Andy schleck]

He has a deal with Jumbo. He helps Vingegaard this year and next year, Vingegaard will race the Giro

Where you get that information?

 

[Andy schleck]

Vinge needs to "earn" the respect yet. He won 1 GT. Yes, it's TdF and yes he's young but we need to wait a bit more to see if this was more or less luck or if he can do it again and again and again. If he'll do it again this year without Roglič help (let's face it, Roglič played a vital part in last year Pog shut down), then he's right up there between the best. He doesn't need to win TdF, just be competitive to the end with others. I still think, he'll never reach Pog, Rog or Remco, because these guys race all year long and win A LOT, crash a lot (Rog, khm),....drama is everywhere. Vinge is just gone most of the year, comes to TdF and looks incredible. But then he's gone again. Hard to get attached to Armstrong vibe racer.

Vingegaard already won two races this year. He's not that bad during all year.

 

[Divergence]

I think the TDF situation is fairly simple. Roglič is arguably no longer in the top tier for the tour (which doesn't mean he can't win it if circumstances align to his favor). And that's not gonna change next year. If anything, due to age, next year the gap will be bigger rather than smaller. If he can recover, then his chances this year are as good as they get.

It's a simple decision - is he going to pursue TDF in the future or not? If he is and can recover from Giro in time, then why not this year.

How do you figure? He is very much in the top tier by my reckoning.

 

[Red Rick]

A lot I think depends on how good Rog amd Vingegaard were relative to each other im trainings right before the 2022 Tour.

Its weird that Rog has raced 2 GTs a year for the past 4 years yet his tpp level seems somewhat of am enigma still

 

[Lequack]

The problem with the co-leaders status is that as soon as you lose time, even if it's a techical or a fall or something else, you're now basically pushed into a domestique role more or less, since the team will obviously back the highest positioned rider. Which wouldn't be the case if you have the full backing of the team. And now if you are unlucky an lose time early on, you're now spending 2 or more weeks being a domestique, which is okay if that was your assinged role, otherwise it can be demotivating. Just look at Vine this year, he didn't look very pleased to be working for Almeida since he lost time with the crashes.

 

[staubsauger]

The problem with the co-leaders status is that as soon as you lose time, even if it's a techical or a fall or something else, you're now basically pushed into a domestique role more or less, since the team will obviously back the highest positioned rider. Which wouldn't be the case if you have the full backing of the team. And now if you are unlucky an lose time early on, you're now spending 2 or more weeks being a domestique, which is okay if that was your assinged role, otherwise it can be demotivating. Just look at Vine this year, he didn't look very pleased to be working for Almeida since he lost time with the crashes.

Look at Tao Geoghegan Hart who only crashed out of the Giro d'Italia because he had to ride on a position behind pink jersey Thomas.

Without his 19 seconds time loss on stage 2, he's the pink jersey and Thomas is the one who crashes harder behind.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Look at Tao Geoghegan Hart who only crashed out of the Giro d'Italia because he had to ride on a position behind pink jersey Thomas.

Without his 19 seconds time loss on stage 2, he's the pink jersey and Thomas is the one who crashes harder behind.

That doesn't make any logic.

 

[bNator]

How do you figure? He is very much in the top tier by my reckoning.

And by many others. That’s why I said “arguably”. Still, the general consensus seems to be he is the best of the rest. And frankly, he needs to prove that is not the case. Until he beats them I’m afraid that’s how it’s gonna be…

 

[Netserk]

The problem with the co-leaders status is that as soon as you lose time, even if it's a techical or a fall or something else, you're now basically pushed into a domestique role more or less, since the team will obviously back the highest positioned rider. Which wouldn't be the case if you have the full backing of the team. And now if you are unlucky an lose time early on, you're now spending 2 or more weeks being a domestique, which is okay if that was your assinged role, otherwise it can be demotivating. Just look at Vine this year, he didn't look very pleased to be working for Almeida since he lost time with the crashes.

In the 2008 Tour, Sastre wasn't forced to dom Schleck. When the second rider can win as well (so unlike Vine), he will have a somewhat free role most of the race.

 

[Lequack]

Yeah but then you will have an endless discussion about someone being selfish for not wanting to work. Example is Almeda and Remco at the Giro as teammates.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Where you get that information?

This is what I think will happen If Roglic races the Tour this year. I don't have gold informations, I'm just a random dude who lives in Portugal close to the sea.

 

[bNator]

This is what I think will happen If Roglic races the Tour this year. I don't have gold informations, I'm just a random dude who lives in Portugal close to the sea.

And thinks god is great for giving Roglič a mechanical…

 

[Andy schleck]

This is what I think will happen If Roglic races the Tour this year. I don't have gold informations, I'm just a random dude who lives in Portugal close to the sea.

Another portuguese? Wow, we are a lot here.
It depends a lot of what results will be achieved at the tour. If VIngegaard wins again the tour, he will go to the tour 2024. If not, maybe he will try the giro next year.

 

[Divergence]

And by many others. That’s why I said “arguably”. Still, the general consensus seems to be he is the best of the rest. And frankly, he needs to prove that is not the case. Until he beats them I’m afraid that’s how it’s gonna be…

I do not see how Rog has more to prove than Vingo...

 

[bNator]

I do not see how Rog has more to prove than Vingo...

You think beating Pogacar in TDF by almost 3 minutes is not proof enough? We can argue Rogla didn’t get a chance to prove it against those two and we would be right. But still, until he proves it, he will be perceived as a level below by most people…

 

[Cassirer]

I do not see how Rog has more to prove than Vingo...

Pog won two tours, one by defeating Rog, then Vingo came and defeated Pog. They are the current yardstick in the biggest race, and rog has not defeated either of them recently, and while doing impressive things, what he does does not seem as extraterrestrial as what those two do (at least to many, me included). For example: Edging out Thomas vs. racing in another stratosphere than Thomas (and everyone else)

 

[Luthor]

A lot I think depends on how good Rog amd Vingegaard were relative to each other im trainings right before the 2022 Tour.

Its weird that Rog has raced 2 GTs a year for the past 4 years yet his tpp level seems somewhat of am enigma still

Vuelta 2021 is peak Roglic. We also saw that level in Monte Lussari. But that level is considered below Vingegaard/Pogacar peak levels. Remember last year in Dauphine Roglic struggled in the wheel of Vingegaard. I think Pog/Vinge would've been faster with like 30 sec on Lussari, the gap to Thomas last year was ridiculous.
If Jonas wins Tour this year he might go Giro next year to give Rog one last big chance for Tour. TJV knows what fans want the most and Jonas domination ain't good for business. Of course Jonas's own ambitions come into play.

 

[Rackham]

Vuelta 2021 is peak Roglic. We also saw that level in Monte Lussari. But that level is considered below Vingegaard/Pogacar peak levels. Remember last year in Dauphine Roglic struggled in the wheel of Vingegaard. I think Pog/Vinge would've been faster with like 30 sec on Lussari, the gap to Thomas last year was ridiculous.
If Jonas wins Tour this year he might go Giro next year to give Rog one last big chance for Tour. TJV knows what fans want the most and Jonas domination ain't good for business. Of course Jonas's own ambitions come into play.

Roglič in the Dauphiné 2022 was not peak Rog. He was just coming back from a knee injury.

The reason there's often some head scratching going on regarding his peak level is the fact he's a little bit... inconsistent. Which is ironic considering he's got such a high base level & can come into the season super red hot out of altitude & smash races. But it's true.

If there's something whacky going on with his legs (illness, after effects from a fall or horrible weather like cold & rain), then even peak Rog can & will have a sh*t day on the bike. But then a few days later he'll smash the field with a Pog-esque performance. That's what happened in the Giro, I believe, i.e. he had an up & down form curve until he came good at the end (I also think the good weather played a role at the end of the week as well, i.e. he has always been a rider who excels in hot racing conditions & during a "warm weather protocol").

The point is on his day when all the stars align & he has super legs, I think he can drop anyone in the peloton, Pog & Vinge included. It's just he has a few "okay" days which aren't good enough to follow the best alien performances from others & also a couple of crappy days as well for good measure where Sepp Kuss comes to the rescue.

 

[Divergence]

Pog got his tactics all wrong at last year's TdF. (Heck, he even got beaten badly by the very same Thomas who is not rated very highly by many of you). So last year's TdF is not a great measuring stick for anybody.
Also, many of you seem to think Rog barely held on to Vingo on the last stage at the Dauphine, which may very well be true, but at the stage where Verona won Rog looked good and better than Vingo. Also he was coming back from that knee injury at the Basque Country.
And I believe we have not seen peak Rog without any issues and niggles for a very long time. July is an opportunity for to see him at his best and I believe, if he decided to do the Tour, he will win the Tour.

 

[Extinction]

Roglič in the Dauphiné 2022 was not peak Rog. He was just coming back from a knee injury.

The reason there's often some head scratching going on regarding his peak level is the fact he's a little bit... inconsistent. Which is ironic considering he's got such a high base level & can come into the season super red hot out of altitude & smash races. But it's true.

If there's something whacky going on with his legs (illness, after effects from a fall or horrible weather like cold & rain), then even peak Rog can & will have a sh*t day on the bike. But then a few days later he'll smash the field with a Pog-esque performance. That's what happened in the Giro, I believe, i.e. he had an up & down form curve until he came good at the end (I also think the good weather played a role at the end of the week as well, i.e. he has always been a rider who excels in hot racing conditions & during a "warm weather protocol").

The point is on his day when all the stars align & he has super legs, I think he can drop anyone in the peloton, Pog & Vinge included. It's just he has a few "okay" days which aren't good enough to follow the best alien performances from others & also a couple of crappy days as well for good measure where Sepp Kuss comes to the rescue.

Only peak matters in this confrontation. So how do you rate peak Rog on the day, versus peak Pog and Vingo on the same day? And this holds true for the others as well. That's how you establish the heirarchy going into the Tour and hence team plans/roles. Whether or not things go to plan, however, is a different matter. The starting premise doesn't change.

 

[Luthor]

Pog got his tactics all wrong at last year's TdF. (Heck, he even got beaten badly by the very same Thomas who is not rated very highly by many of you). So last year's TdF is not a great measuring stick for anybody.
Also, many of you seem to think Rog barely held on to Vingo on the last stage at the Dauphine, which may very well be true, but at the stage where Verona won Rog looked good and better than Vingo. Also he was coming back from that knee injury at the Basque Country.
And I believe we have not seen peak Rog without any issues and niggles for a very long time. July is an opportunity for to see him at his best and I believe, if he decided to do the Tour, he will win the Tour.

Giro-Tour is a very hard double to do simply because the peak level is hard to reach at Tour and usually in 3rd week the performance is not there. He could win a 2019 Tour variant but not against Pog/Vinge who have focused solely on Tour and would have better preparation. Vuelta fits him so much better in terms of profiles/preparation.

Thomas beat Pog only on Granon and that was a mistake he won't do again.

 

[Luthor]

Roglič in the Dauphiné 2022 was not peak Rog. He was just coming back from a knee injury.

The reason there's often some head scratching going on regarding his peak level is the fact he's a little bit... inconsistent. Which is ironic considering he's got such a high base level & can come into the season super red hot out of altitude & smash races. But it's true.

If there's something whacky going on with his legs (illness, after effects from a fall or horrible weather like cold & rain), then even peak Rog can & will have a sh*t day on the bike. But then a few days later he'll smash the field with a Pog-esque performance. That's what happened in the Giro, I believe, i.e. he had an up & down form curve until he came good at the end (I also think the good weather played a role at the end of the week as well, i.e. he has always been a rider who excels in hot racing conditions & during a "warm weather protocol").

The point is on his day when all the stars align & he has super legs, I think he can drop anyone in the peloton, Pog & Vinge included. It's just he has a few "okay" days which aren't good enough to follow the best alien performances from others & also a couple of crappy days as well for good measure where Sepp Kuss comes to the rescue.

I think Vinge's level in climbing last year is still underrated to this day. It's not that Roglic was bad, it was Jonas in the shape of his life.
His inconsistency happened multiple times unfortunately but he was saved by Kuss/Wout several times. One of the reasons why TJV is reluctant to give him full support at Tour is exactly this one, too many off days, a lot of times due to poor luck. Also Jonas kinda earned to fully defend his title. What Roglic has though is his fighting spirit and I think eventually that will pay off even in TdF.