• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

Page 445 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Something I always considered to be relevant with regards to Roglič is the fact he's in my opinion a rider who presents form variables based on... confidence.

Like he's much better after he wins because this gives him more belief & confidence... which in turn leads to more wins. The big downside is he eventually runs out of gas. I only mention this because the theory whereby a rested Rog can do better in a GT doesn't always materialize because it reduces his race sharpness & his confidence as well. That's just my impression based on watching him for so long.

So it's a double edged sword, i.e. a well rested Rog will have better form prospects over 3 weeks of racing but he'll lack race sharpness & confidence (this materializes in terms of lacking in positioning & timing, among other little details), whilst a well raced Rog will have bucket loads of sharpness & confidence but sooner or later the Alto de la Covatilla 2020 happens. I think this is partially why people have often struggled when it comes to analysing his best form & peak power, i.e. because he can produce 'best ever' results when theoretically he should be tired & then conversely he can be a little bit subpar when everyone expects a stomp.

He's like a footballer who plays weekend league games & midweek European matches, i.e. scoring loads of goals & boosted by that confidence. But eventually, a burn out happens. And if he's rested for too long, he goes a little rusty. I realise this is all somewhat contradicted by his traditional early season top level in March but I put that down to more of his high base level manifesting itself as 'superior' to other riders who're just starting their season.

I'm not saying he should do the Tour 2023 or anything based on this analysis either, it's just something I consider relevant.
Interesting viewpoint. I will reflect :)
 
He may have just won the Giro, but he needs to also win Tour de Suisse, to really prove himself (against real men).
Plenty of time when he's older and 1 week races are easier to win than GTs. Not that they aren't now but I think he'll have a few years when he can still win week long races but not GTs. It would be great to become the Only winner of all 7 prestigious week longers, just Suisse to go.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
I don’t like the fact it is his boss who is announcing that decision. Makes you think it’s not really Rogla’s decision. Quite possibly it really isn’t…
Seems very common that team bosses talk about riders' programs in this way. I mean, of course Primoz would have rather ridden the Tour to win, but I don't see a team boss making a comment as a confirmation of any discord. Totally normal.
 
i hope rog does not do the tour de france...there is a long history of attempted giro/tour doubles that did not work out....and that was even back when there were...shall i say less human riders...today, it is, and should not be considered...if a win is expected. give rog a break....if you didn't see his human side in the giro, then you were not watching the same race i was. and i have been watching these races...all of them for the last 25 yrs...i just dont post much. vingo has been training for the tour...for better or worse...but rog for winning the tour? this yr? unless pog or vingo crashes...its a long shot imho as always
 
  • Like
Reactions: IndurainsTdF1994
Seems very common that team bosses talk about riders' programs in this way. I mean, of course Primoz would have rather ridden the Tour to win, but I don't see a team boss making a comment as a confirmation of any discord. Totally normal.
I imagine it's much easier for the rider if the team handles that communication. Imagine Roglic has to put in an instagram update for any race he doesn't do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gratemans

FxX4MVYXgAEcLsl
 
The Giro tweet was retweeted by a Slovenian troll, who had just responded with "don't forget the secret juice" (+ 2 syringe icons) in response to Evenepoel's TdS announcement.
Patrick Evenepoel clearly didn't realise that if he responded to the retweeted tweet by the Slovenian troll, that his response would just be directed at the original Giro tweet and not the Slovenian troll. It was a failed attempt at trolling a troll and he deleted the tweet right after.

Here is the tweet on the Slovenian trolls timeline:


Here's his earlier comment on Evenepoel's announcement:

View: https://twitter.com/SeloVeroni/status/1664593148729782272

EDIT: the dude has now deleted his troll tweet, but someone on twitter grabbed a screenshot:

FxphWvUWAAAC55b
 
Last edited:
Good. I think he should only do Nationals and Worlds before the Vuelta if he is to race at all before then.
Don't see why racing worlds would be relevant at all. He stand no chance, and his TT is declining. Much better to really build for the Vuelta, and at exactly that time period you prolly want to be in altitude camp instead of racing a race like that.

Maybe Poland or Burgos is relevant to him? I dno, depends on what he sees as optimal prep, but Im sure riding Worlds is definitely not optimal prep for the Vuelta and it offers close to no chance of an upset on this kinda route tbh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Luthor
The Giro tweet was retweeted by a Slovenian troll, who had just responded with "don't forget the secret juice" (+ 2 syringe icons) in response to Evenepoel's TdS announcement.
Patrick Evenepoel clearly didn't realise that if he responded to the retweeted tweet by the Slovenian troll, that his response would just be directed at the original Giro tweet and not the Slovenian troll. It was a failed attempt at trolling a troll and he deleted the tweet right after.

Here is the tweet on the Slovenian trolls timeline:


Here's his earlier comment on Evenepoel's announcement:

View: https://twitter.com/SeloVeroni/status/1664593148729782272

That's why forums are way better than Twitter.
 
Seeing Kruijswijk come out & say it's better to do the Tour with just one leader (i.e. pretty much confirming the difficulties they had last year protecting both Rog & Jonas in the first week), it does raise some questions about next year though: https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...st-year-it-was-a-bit-of-a-compromise?twit=868

I mean it looks like the "can Rog do the TdF alongside Vingegaard at Jumbo?" question has just been kicked down the road & will be revisited later, i.e. Vingegaard will still be doing the Tour next year - I see no reason why not, even if he loses this one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: acm
Roglič really has some insane stage race results since he really started going for GC in 2018. Since Tour of Britain the only race he lost without crashing or being sick was Tour 2020. Other than that he wins as long as he avoids getting injured. The problem is he crashes far too often :rolleyes:

Itzulia 2018: 1st
Romandie 2018: 1st
Slovenia 2018: 1st
Tour 2018: 4th
Britain 2018: 3rd

UAE 2019: 1st
Tirreno 2019: 1st
Romandie 2019: 1st
Giro 2019: 3rd (crashed multiple times, sick)
Vuelta 2019: 1st

Ain 2020: 1st
Dauphine 2020: DNF (1st before last stage, crash)
Tour 2020: 2nd
Vuelta 2020: 1st

P-N 2021: 15th (crash, 1st before last stage)
Itzulia 2021: 1st
Tour 2021: DNF (two big crashes)
Vuelta 2021: 1st

P-N 2022: 1st
Itzulia 2022: 8th (rode with a torn knee muscle)
Dauphine 2022: 1st
Tour 2022: DNF (hay bale crash)
Vuelta 2022 DNF (crashed out)

Tirreno 2023: 1st
Catalunya 2023: 1st
Giro 2023: 1st
 
Seeing Kruijswijk come out & say it's better to do the Tour with just one leader (i.e. pretty much confirming the difficulties they had last year protecting both Rog & Jonas in the first week), it does raise some questions about next year though: https://cyclinguptodate.com/cycling...st-year-it-was-a-bit-of-a-compromise?twit=868

I mean it looks like the "can Rog do the TdF alongside Vingegaard at Jumbo?" question has just been kicked down the road & will be revisited later, i.e. Vingegaard will still be doing the Tour next year - I see no reason why not, even if he loses this one.
This confirms nothing we didn't already know. He just emphasizes how complicated it was last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sandisfan
What TJV need is get their ass kicked by Pogacar in TDF this year. Then maybe they will be more welcoming to the idea of putting their top riders in their Tour team…
More welcoming to the idea they've used for a couple of years in a row now? Have you been paying any attention at all?

This year they take a bit more 'normal' approach, and immediately you want to see them suffer. It's hilarious, really.
 
I think it was Roglic decisions who didn't want to be a domestique of Vingegaard and preferred to win a GT this season

True. Roglič wanted to do a GT with full support. So he opted for the Giro. In retrospect he made the right choice, since a full backing of the team was more likely than not the difference between winning and coming second. The team really helped him avoid time losses in week 1 and then Kuss was essential in week 3. If you have two leaders you effectively get half less support. Like last year in the Tour, when Jonas had his mechanical on the cobbles stage so most of the team was with him, Roglič only got Laporte. Would the hay bale crash happen if he also had WvA and Van Hooydonck to guide him? Perhaps not, we will never know. But he wanted a GT with full support, not one where you have to fend on your own and any little sort of time loss or misshap pushes you into a helper role.
 
What TJV need is get their ass kicked by Pogacar in TDF this year. Then maybe they will be more welcoming to the idea of putting their top riders in their Tour team…
I think it was Roglic decisions who didn't want to be a domestique of Vingegaard and preferred to win a GT this season
There's nothing that suggests Roglic didn't want to go to the Giro himself. It's basically the very first question in their season scheduling, and I doubt Jumbo would've forced either of them to the Giro if neither wanted to. It also doesn't make sense at all to think Roglic wouldn't be protected in the Tour. He just would likely not be the main leader. Given that, I think the distribution of leadership has been very logical.

Roglic to Tour right now also doesn't make any sense. His form would be worse than without the Giro and his protected status would kinda go out the window rather quickly, leading to him doing what Arensman was doing this Giro. It makes sense for Jumbo in the sense that Roglic is the best climbing domestique you can have, but it doesn't make any sense for Roglic' personal ambitions.
 
It also doesn't make sense at all to think Roglic wouldn't be protected in the Tour. He just would likely not be the main leader. Given that, I think the distribution of leadership has been very logical.
For me it makes a lot of sense for Roglic, but not for the team. If the main goal stays TDF then I would have started with 2 leaders. I just think Roglic didn’t want this, but I would’ve forced him into this. I think it’s quite arrogant of Jumbo to think they’ll easily win TDF again, because I’m not sure Vingegaard is able to win from Pogacar when they go head-2-head, and Pogacar is at 100%.
 
For me it makes a lot of sense for Roglic, but not for the team. If the main goal stays TDF then I would have started with 2 leaders. I just think Roglic didn’t want this, but I would’ve forced him into this. I think it’s quite arrogant of Jumbo to think they’ll easily win TDF again, because I’m not sure Vingegaard is able to win from Pogacar when they go head-2-head, and Pogacar is at 100%.

I don't think it's Jumbo's decision. It's Rog who made the call to do the Giro.

This was confirmed by Wout van Aert late last year who said Rog wanted full team leadership so chose to go to the Giro instead of the Tour. Merijn Zeeman had previously stated there would always be 3 automatic names on the Jumbo TdF startlist: Vingegaard, WvA & Roglič. But this sport also requires teams keep everyone happy (namely their stars) or else they'll begin to look elsewhere, i.e. Rog wanted the Giro so that's where he went.

So there's no way Jumbo can force Rog to do the Tour. Although next year the conversation (& respective roles in the Tour) will be revisited.

This confirms nothing we didn't already know. He just emphasizes how complicated it was last year.

I'll be amazed if Kruijswijk is even in contention for a Tour place in the team next year, so there's that to consider as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Luthor
For me it makes a lot of sense for Roglic, but not for the team. If the main goal stays TDF then I would have started with 2 leaders. I just think Roglic didn’t want this, but I would’ve forced him into this. I think it’s quite arrogant of Jumbo to think they’ll easily win TDF again, because I’m not sure Vingegaard is able to win from Pogacar when they go head-2-head, and Pogacar is at 100%.
Roglic is still a star rider and a team leader. There is no guarantee that him going to the TDF would again result in them winning. Pogacar and UAE will have learned from last years mistakes, and if Pogacar is at 100% i don't think it would matter that much on this route. So maybe in 2 years you can force Roglic into a domestique role, but not yet. Maybe it was a gamble, but at least they already won the Giro.

Also, the same applies for UAE. They also could have sent Almeida and Vine to the Tour, and didn't.
 
Last edited:

TRENDING THREADS