Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[bNator]

Good outcome on stage 13. Now second in GC, rode smart by not attacking much and finished strong. What happens next is a bit more complicated. I don't feel that Rogla (or Jonas) will directly attack Kuss. And with Remco and Almeida out of GC battle it's hard to see a challenger that could challenge Kuss position. Still this is cycling and long way to go to the finsih of this GT. So i guess best to focus on performing good tomorrow and for the rest to unfold on its own.

Are you kidding me? 🤨

 

[CyclistAbi]

Are you kidding me? 🤨

No, why? Rogla would have never attack Kuss on this stage and he is now second overall. Riding most of the stage behind some other rider. For more Kuss will have to struggle on some stage. So if not tomorrow likely Rogla should focus on stage win at stage 16. And then, starting with week three, it's not really up to Rogla. That is if Kuss will struggle or not. We'll see.

 

[bNator]

My take from Today’s stage: If Vinge can attack while Kuss is in red, then so can Rogla. If they managed to convince him otherwise at TJV then I’m afraid he is not the brightest of guys out there…

Does any of his relatives have birthday during the Vuelta? That seems to be reason enough to attack your teammate in red…

 

[JosefK]

I'm still elated about stage 20 of the Giro. Any wins for Rog in the Vuelta (he's already got a stage win) are icing on the cake.

 

[zlev11]

Are you kidding me? 🤨

it was pretty good. Vingegaard did a full out maximum attack on a climb perfectly suited to him and only gained 33 seconds on Roglic.

 

[Hugh Januss]

My take from Today’s stage: If Vinge can attack while Kuss is in red, then so can Rogla. If they managed to convince him otherwise at TJV then I’m afraid he is not the brightest of guys out there…

Does any of his relatives have birthday during the Vuelta? That seems to be reason enough to attack your teammate in red…

Vingegaard attacked because he was in 7th GC and to make it so Kuss and Roglic didn't have to make any of the pace. If any of the Jumbo guys attack now then we have a problem, they only have to follow. They attack now then they are attacking each other, the only way their places should change is if one of them can't follow when another close GC rider attacks.

 

[Oldermanish]

Vingegaard attacked because he was in 7th GC and to make it so Kuss and Roglic didn't have to make any of the pace. If any of the Jumbo guys attack now then we have a problem, they only have to follow. They attack now then they are attacking each other, the only way their places should change is if one of them can't follow when another close GC rider attacks.

This times 1000.
Moreover; to achieve it without bringing any rivals closer to Sepp on GC was masterful. Roglic, as I pointed out based on how fast he closed to both Vingo and Kuss, was the key player. Now the survivors on UAE, Bahrain, Motorola know they need to kill at least two heads of the Hydra to get higher on GC.
This helps Kuss all the way until he tells them to win because he's unable.

 

[Rackham]

Roglic found himself in an unusual situation today with JV being too strong for the rest. I still think he wasn't on his best day today. The Vuelta situation became more complidated, despite Remco being eliminated. It's because Kuss is very strong, sitting comfortably in 1st in the GC plus Vinge is on par with Rogla in the GC now.

Evenepoel ruined the race from this fan's perspective (aka me).

The inconsiderate little bastard just had to go & get the ultimate win over Rogla, i.e. imploding & screwing Rog's Vuelta chances by no longer being the catalyst in GC for Rog to catch Kuss.

No Remco = no fun = no Rog GC gains versus his teammates. It looks bleak. After sleeping on yesterday's events, Rog now faces a corporate cul-de-sac:

- he won't attack his teammate in red, thus Kuss wins.

- if Kuss collapses & Rog wins, everyone is going to act depressed or something & his win won't be celebrated as it should be.

So from Rog's individual perspective, this Vuelta needed Evenepoel.

 

[Netserk]

I'm afraid this also means they won't ride for additional stage wins. So for Rogla to win some more, we need to hope that other teams will bring the breaks back.

 

[Miha81]

Still want him to win but if I can't get salty at GC Kuss.

I think most of fans would love to see Kuss getting GT win but on the other hand this is becoming american wrestling version of cycling. Team ordering the packing order for me means that any suspension is gone. Now I am just cheering for anybody to challenge TJV trio.

 

[Rackham]

I think most of fans would love to see Kuss getting GT win but on the other hand this is becoming american wrestling version of cycling. Team ordering the packing order for me means that any suspension is gone. Now I am just cheering for anybody to challenge TJV trio.

"Fans" were also cheering for the Danish Dynamite in 2021 as well, especially after the Ventoux. That's how it starts, i.e. they hook people with emotions & the good feels of a feel good story. Aka the "little humble nice guy" who everyone loves because he's so full of love for everyone.

Watch this space. Next year Sepp Kuss will demolish the Giro & people will be thinking "WTF! he's a monster!".

Kuss is just getting started.

 

[Miha81]

"Fans" were also cheering for the Danish Dynamite in 2021 as well, especially after the Ventoux. That's how it starts, i.e. they hook people with emotions & the good feels of a feel good story. Aka the "little humble nice guy" who everyone loves because he's so full of love for everyone.

Watch this space. Next year Sepp Kuss will demolish the Giro & people will be thinking "WTF! he's a monster!".

Kuss is just getting started.

Why can't he get started this year and challenge Rogla and Vinge "mano a mano"? This softpedaling team packing bull**** is annoying to me. Are they affraid of counterattack from 3rd party or do they simply think fans are to dumb to see what is going on?

 

[Blanco]

Only Ayuso could maybe challenge. If his back really hurts him, he should in theory be better in the 3rd week. That could go in Rogla's favor, when Ayuso attacks, I think Roglic will be first in line to answer, and if Kuss can't hold, there could be some time difference.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Likely JV is testing on who will be the leader next year at the Tour. Likely the one that attacks Kuss will get that privilege. As that is the most suitable action for a Tour champion.

 

[Rackham]

Likely JV is testing on who will be the leader next year at the Tour. Likely the one that attacks Kuss will get that privilege. As that is the most suitable action for a Tour champion.

The nightmare scenario (if I was to pick one) is Kuss explodes in one of the remaining stages, Evenepoel style.

That would leave Rog & Vinge separated by a handful of seconds, 1 & 2 in GC.

I think the team is happy to make the Kuss fairy-tale come true but if we remove him from the GC equation... suddenly the gap is so small, I don't see how a truce could be agreed upon (or team tactics for that matter). I mean what's Rog supposed to do if Grischa tells Vinge to attack & he rides off into the distance? Just sit on the others because the team car tells him to? And lose the Vuelta on purpose? In a sense, Kuss has saved Jumbo from any internal turmoil or infighting.

For their sake, they should hope he lasts the distance.

 

[CyclistAbi]

@Rackham

It's basically an experiment and hard to predict the outcome. For now Rogla should focus on stage wins. Optimally two in week two. Others to worry about Kuss. It's still long way to go.

 

[cellardoor]

@Rackham

It's basically an experiment and hard to predict the outcome. For now Rogla should focus on stage wins. Optimally two in week two. Others to worry about Kuss. It's still long way to go.

Hard to see him getting stage wins as it's not in Jumbo's interest to keep breaks on a short leash and not in the interest of the other teams to risk a MTF sprint against Roglic.

 

[Rackham]

Hard to see him getting stage wins as it's not in Jumbo's interest to keep breaks on a short leash and not in the interest of the other teams to risk a MTF sprint against Roglic.

Sadly, I think you're right. Rog is stuck in his golden cage right now. No path to victory, no path to stage wins either. But always with an eye on Kuss (in case he has a bad moment & needs pulling), but also Vingegaard as well (in case he tries something a bit WTF, like what-the-hell-was-that when he pushed on Spandelles yesterday, both on the climb & the descent.

If he'd gotten a gap there, there was literally no one in the bunch to ride against him.

 

[CyclistAbi]

He can always jump on Bahrain train on descends. If JV won't be interested.

 

[acm]

I think the team is happy to make the Kuss fairy-tale come true but if we remove him from the GC equation... suddenly the gap is so small, I don't see how a truce could be agreed upon (or team tactics for that matter). I mean what's Rog supposed to do if Grischa tells Vinge to attack & he rides off into the distance? Just sit on the others because the team car tells him to? And lose the Vuelta on purpose? In a sense, Kuss has saved Jumbo from any internal turmoil or infighting.

For their sake, they should hope he lasts the distance.

Isn't that exactly what happened yesterday?
I'm happy for Sepp, but on the other hand, I feel gutted for Primož.

 

[Rackham]

Isn't that exactly what happened yesterday?
I'm happy for Sepp, but on the other hand, I feel gutted for Primož.

He had a cushion back to Vingegaard, which I presume was discussed on the team bus.

But that's the last time such a scenario can play out like that. I put yesterday down to A/In the pre-stage planning, Evenepoel would have been a factor, ergo the plan would have been for Vingegaard to attack & make Remco work, thus allowing Rog to counter Evenepoel at the end & perhaps take back 23 seconds (the fact Evenepoel collapsed made the plan less interesting from Rog's perspective) & B/Vingegaard hadn't won a stage yet, he wasn't on the podium, he needed to make up time versus Ayuso & it was his daughter's birthday.

But now, the team should not make such requests from Rog because it will definitely start to look like they're engineering Jonas Vingegaard to leapfrog him in GC.

 

[kn0s]

Is Rog not a team player? Is he full of s... when he says he is happy for GC Kuss to win? Has the race not made a fare bit of sense tactically so far?

I get if you would like "your guy" to win, but this is getting ridiculous. I actually think Rog is a better person than most here and just wants what is best for the team in this situation. There is just such an undercurrent of resentment here towards everyone around Rog. Could be I'm misreading the room, but damn.

 

[Rackham]

Is Rog not a team player? Is he full of s... when he says he is happy for GC Kuss to win? Has the race not made a fare bit of sense tactically so far?

I get if you would like "your guy" to win, but this is getting ridiculous. I actually think Rog is a better person than most here and just wants what is best for the team in this situation. There is just such an undercurrent of resentment here towards everyone around Rog. Could be I'm misreading the room, but damn.

I don't get this post. We've been saying exactly that, i.e. Rog is a team player & he's happy for Kuss to win.

But this is a discussion board & I'm discussing possible scenarios which muddy the waters, namely one where Kuss drops & Rog is left with Vinge only a few seconds behind in GC. Then all the "you better be a good team player!" talk goes straight out the window.

No one would get to choose who wins or loses.

 

[kn0s]

I don't get this post. We've been saying exactly that, i.e. Rog is a team player & he's happy for Kuss to win.

But this is a discussion board & I'm discussing possible scenarios which muddy the waters, namely one where Kuss drops & Rog is left with Vinge only a few seconds behind in GC. Then all the "you better be a good team player!" talk goes straight out the window.

No one would get to choose who wins or loses.

Well it goes out the window in the mind of this thread. I'm fairly sure Jonas would be happy for Roglic to win if he has the best form. He has never shown otherwise, same for Roglic the other way.

 

[acm]

Is Rog not a team player? Is he full of s... when he says he is happy for GC Kuss to win? Has the race not made a fare bit of sense tactically so far?

I get if you would like "your guy" to win, but this is getting ridiculous. I actually think Rog is a better person than most here and just wants what is best for the team in this situation. There is just such an undercurrent of resentment here towards everyone around Rog. Could be I'm misreading the room, but damn.

Naah, it's just me, I'm selfish and I want Roglič to win. He's a good guy and he showed once more he's a team player.