Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Froome]

And so it begins… Some harsh words from Zeeman:

On topic of team unity at Vuelta

This may have some interesting implications. First, Roglic may have something to tell as well. Not necessarily regarding Vuelta but in general regarding Visma. And more importantly, if there’s going to be hate between Roglic and Visma now, that could affect TDF… I don’t think Visma wants Pog and Rog working together in any capacity.

In what scenario pog and rog would work together?

 

[bNator]

Not that harsh, and also: not that new. Roglic already said he had his own thoughts about it, i.e. he didn't really agree with the decision.

What’s new is the part where Zeeman says Roglic was forced by his teammates to accept management's terms. I don’t think that was known before and claiming this to me does qualify as harsh. Especially since it was unprovoked. Roglic up until now never said a bad word about Visma.

In what scenario pog and rog would work together?

Like I said - in a scenario where there's hate between Roglic and Visma. Let me remind you: they've worked together frequently until mid-TDF 2020.

 

[dazaau]

In what scenario pog and rog would work together?

Any which isolate Jonas. Go Slovenia!

 

[acm]

And so it begins… Some harsh words from Zeeman:

On topic of team unity at Vuelta

This may have some interesting implications. First, Roglic may have something to tell as well. Not necessarily regarding Vuelta but in general regarding Visma. And more importantly, if there’s going to be hate between Roglic and Visma now, that could affect TDF… I don’t think Visma wants Pog and Rog working together in any capacity.

He won't say anything, he's classy. If anything, it will only motivate him even more.

 

[Ilmaestro99]

In what scenario pog and rog would work together?

Roglic when he does his attack 500m from the finish on the Queen stage could do a nice leadout for pogacar to win the stage (or more likely to get second place a minute behind jonas)

 

[Froome]

Any which isolate Jonas. Go Slovenia!

What’s new is the part where Zeeman says Roglic was forced by his teammates to accept management's terms. I don’t think that was known before and claiming this to me does qualify as harsh. Especially since it was unprovoked. Roglic up until now never said a bad word about Visma.


Like I said - in a scenario where there's hate between Roglic and Visma. Let me remind you: they've worked together frequently until mid-TDF 2020.

That scenario could only happens, if they drop Vingegaard, but that scenario is very remote.

Forget about nationalities, if Pogacar and vingegaard drop roglic and remco, pogacar and vingegaard will work together to eliminate roglic and remco.

They will work with each one of them, when the circunstances are favorable.

You can bet that if roglic and vingegaard drop pogacar, they will work together to eliminate pogacar.

 

[ice&fire]

In what scenario pog and rog would work together?

Vuelta '21 is the answer. In the Covadonga stage Rog waited to work with Bernal until he was told to do so from the team car.

 

[Rackham]

Forget about nationalities, if Pogacar and vingegaard drop roglic and remco, pogacar and vingegaard will work together to eliminate roglic and remco.

I won't speculate about a race which is 8 months away, but this is highly unlikely. Simply because we can assume Pogačar will view Vingegaard as his greatest rival & real threat. It means if there is a scenario where riders help each other, it'll more likely be the second, third & fourth favorites who unite against the big favorite, which means Pog, Rog, & Evenepoel would likely work together (especially if for example the gravel stage goes wrong for Vingegaard) against Vingegaard & then sort it out among themselves afterwards.

Pog is hardly likely to work with Vingegaard just to eliminate riders (like Rog & Evenepoel) who can be of use to him by being closer in GC, i.e. something which can give Vingegaard more work to do because he was to watch others. Otherwise by working with Vingegaard he'd simply recreate the 2023 race scenario all over again, i.e. consisting of himself fighting alone against Vingegaard man against man.

I also do remember Pog was vocal in his support of Evenepoel going to the Tour this year after he DNF'd the Giro, likely for the aforementioned tactical reasons. It's about having some allies against Jumbo.

 

[bNator]

That scenario could only happens, if they drop Vingegaard, but that scenario is very remote.

Forget about nationalities, if Pogacar and vingegaard drop roglic and remco, pogacar and vingegaard will work together to eliminate roglic and remco.

They will work with each one of them, when the circunstances are favorable.

You can bet that if roglic and vingegaard drop pogacar, they will work together to eliminate pogacar.

There is absolutely zero chance Pogacar would ever work with Vingegaard. There is no situation which grants that. He doesn't care about second place or podium finish at all IMO so every single move he makes will be against Vingegaard. He might even favour Roglic and Remco riding off at some point just to create a situation where Vingegaard will be on back foot thus creating opportunity for Pog.

It's in Pog's best interest that Vingeaard has to deal with several threats at the same time for as long as possible. Don't forget that Pog is the underdog now and Vingegaard is the defending champion. Which means any chase will always be Vingegaard's responsiblity unless Pog is the clear leader of the race...

 

[theyoungest]

What’s new is the part where Zeeman says Roglic was forced by his teammates to accept management's terms. I don’t think that was known before and claiming this to me does qualify as harsh. Especially since it was unprovoked. Roglic up until now never said a bad word about Visma.

That's not what was said in the podcast though. Nobody forced him. You have to take these Google-translated articles on Cyclingnews with a grain of salt, certainly if the source isn't the original source either.

Roglic knows this, he couldn't care less about this sort of thing. And like I said, he already indicated that he didn't really agree with the decision, but that he conformed to it nonetheless. Pretty much exactly what Zeeman is saying...

I don't understand why people want everything to always be 100% smooth sailing, everyone always agrees with everything, everyone is always 100% happy... and if that's not the case there's somehow a huge scandal. That isn't possible in any group of people, and certainly not in an elite sports team.

 

[cen]

Seems pretty clear.. he wanted to race for the win but had to fall back in line due to team pressure. The only other thing he could do is yolo and attack against the team instructions but that would make him look really bad..

I also agree that there could be some Rog and Pog alliance dynamics to get rid of Vingeegard who is the No. 1 threat. Nobody will work with Vinge.

 

[Froome]

Seems pretty clear.. he wanted to race for the win but had to fall back in line due to team pressure. The only other thing he could do is yolo and attack against the team instructions but that would make him look really bad..

I also agree that there could be some Rog and Pog alliance dynamics to get rid of Vingeegard who is the No. 1 threat. Nobody will work with Vinge.

Like @Ilmaestro99 indirectly said, roglic wanted to go for the win, so the plan was to attack 500 m from the finish line on sierra de bejes. What a shame, roglic could have won the vuelta in that final 500 meters.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Like @Ilmaestro99 indirectly said, roglic wanted to go for the win, so the plan was to attack 500 m from the finish line on sierra de bejes. What a shame, roglic could have won the vuelta in that final 500 meters.

Right, just like he did on Angliru and Javalambre - sat in the bunch and attacked 500m from the finish.

 

[bNator]

That's not what was said in the podcast though. Nobody forced him. You have to take these Google-translated articles on Cyclingnews with a grain of salt, certainly if the source isn't the original source either.

Roglic knows this, he couldn't care less about this sort of thing. And like I said, he already indicated that he didn't really agree with the decision, but that he conformed to it nonetheless. Pretty much exactly what Zeeman is saying...

I don't understand why people want everything to always be 100% smooth sailing, everyone always agrees with everything, everyone is always 100% happy... and if that's not the case there's somehow a huge scandal. That isn't possible in any group of people, and certainly not in an elite sports team.

Ok then, but what is the prupose of Zeeman saying these things (whatever they are, I'm sure he said something on that podcast)? These are their internal discussions which were never disclosed in such detail up until now, that Roglic is no longer part of the team. Sure, I agree, not everything is always smooth sailing - but we've never heard those details from the team before. Like how (speculating here) Wout was maybe pissed that he had to work for Vingegaard on Roubaix stage in 2022 instead of winning the stage for himself... I'm pretty sure that was not smooth sailing either yet we heard no dirty details from the team about that topic - or any other, for that matter.

It's because Roglic is no longer with them that Zeeman feels he can disclose these discussions. Which is fine, I guess, even if it is a bit unprofessional. But in exchange, he can expect no love from Roglic in best case and in worst case, Roglic can start revealing the content of other discussions they might have had and may feel inclined to work with other teams against Visma if the situation arises.

 

[bNator]

Right, just like he did on Angliru and Javalambre - sat in the bunch and attacked 500m from the finish.

Leave them be - getting b***hurt so many times by these 500m attacks is bound to leave some long-terms consequences...

 

[theyoungest]

Ok then, but what is the prupose of Zeeman saying these things (whatever they are, I'm sure he said something on that podcast)? These are their internal discussions which were never disclosed in such detail up until now, that Roglic is no longer part of the team. Sure, I agree, not everything is always smooth sailing - but we've never heard those details from the team before. Like how (speculating here) Wout was maybe pissed that he had to work for Vingegaard on Roubaix stage in 2022 instead of winning the stage for himself... I'm pretty sure that was not smooth sailing either yet we heard no dirty details from the team about that topic - or any other, for that matter.

It's because Roglic is no longer with them that Zeeman feels he can disclose these discussions. Which is fine, I guess, even if it is a bit unprofessional. But in exchange, he can expect no love from Roglic in best case and in worst case, Roglic can start revealing the content of other discussions they might have had and may feel inclined to work with other teams against Visma if the situation arises.

Oh sure, Roglic may want to work other teams... although they've never helped him one bit until now. Also, Pogacar has insulted him in the past, so if he's the type of guy who holds grudges like you think he does it will be interesting to see which grudge is the strongest. I think it's only normal that a champion like Roglic was not completely happy with how things went at the Vuelta. Nor is it strange for Zeeman to point that out, certainly because Roglic already did so himself.

I don't think anyone expects Roglic to refuse to cooperate if there's a chance to put time into Vingegaard. Not because he hates Visma, as his fans so desperately want him to, but because it's bike racing and he wants to win.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Oh sure, Roglic may want to work other teams... although they've never helped him one bit until now. Also, Pogacar has insulted him in the past, so if he's the type of guy who holds grudges like you think he does it will be interesting to see which grudge is the strongest. I think it's only normal that a champion like Roglic was not completely happy with how things went at the Vuelta. Nor is it strange for Zeeman to point that out, certainly because Roglic already did so himself.

I don't think anyone expects Roglic to refuse to cooperate if there's a chance to put time into Vingegaard. Not because he hates Visma, as his fans so desperately want him to, but because it's bike racing and he wants to win.

Can you be more specific? Or is this a far-fetched analysys about the PDBF stage?

 

[red_flanders]

It's because Roglic is no longer with them that Zeeman feels he can disclose these discussions. Which is fine, I guess, even if it is a bit unprofessional. But in exchange, he can expect no love from Roglic in best case and in worst case, Roglic can start revealing the content of other discussions they might have had and may feel inclined to work with other teams against Visma if the situation arises.

Do you think he's going to carry a grudge like that in July of next year, for something he'd already basically said publicly anyway? I don't really think that's his mentality, but I could be wrong. Seems to me there are too many other things to worry about in the Tour, letting that stuff get in your head would (IMO) be a mistake. I think he's more chill than that.

 

[theyoungest]

Can you be more specific? Or is this a far-fetched analysys about the PDBF stage?

Not an outright insult, of course, but Pogi liked a post about Roglic' propensity to crash. That should serve as insult enough to Roglic' fans, who look for that sort of thing everywhere

 

[Red Rick]

If only ASO could turn molehills into mountains like my homies at the CN Forum.

 

[bNator]

Come on… Nothing is going on right now… What are we expected to just lay low until March? 🤣 Why can’t we just hate Visma and look for controversy? 😁

But seriously - how often do you hear a team discuss stuff like that in public about their former members? I don’t follow that many sports but I did follow F1 passionately and you would never hear a senior team member disclosing any internal discussions like that. I stand by by my assessment that this sort of thing is unprofessional because it achieves nothing…

 

[Elos Anjos]

Not an outright insult, of course, but Pogi liked a post about Roglic' propensity to crash. That should serve as insult enough to Roglic' fans, who look for that sort of thing everywhere

Thanks, but that seems sort of a stretch ...not a very insightful look into Roglic's soul...I'm sure only delusional people think that his favourite rider feeds thoughts like "hmm, finally I can get my revenge on Pogacar for a suspicious instagram "like" he did millions years ago".

 

[Carrick-On-Seine]

Ok then, but what is the prupose of Zeeman saying these things (whatever they are, I'm sure he said something on that podcast)? These are their internal discussions which were never disclosed in such detail up until now, that Roglic is no longer part of the team. Sure, I agree, not everything is always smooth sailing - but we've never heard those details from the team before. Like how (speculating here) Wout was maybe pissed that he had to work for Vingegaard on Roubaix stage in 2022 instead of winning the stage for himself... I'm pretty sure that was not smooth sailing either yet we heard no dirty details from the team about that topic - or any other, for that matter.

It's because Roglic is no longer with them that Zeeman feels he can disclose these discussions. Which is fine, I guess, even if it is a bit unprofessional. But in exchange, he can expect no love from Roglic in best case and in worst case, Roglic can start revealing the content of other discussions they might have had and may feel inclined to work with other teams against Visma if the situation arises.

All sorts of reason but mostly to make Jonas and Sepp feel loved.

 

[bNator]

All sorts of reason but mostly to make Jonas and Sepp feel loved.

That one actually makes sense…

 

[Berniece]

There is absolutely zero chance Pogacar would ever work with Vingegaard.

Pogacar always races, he'll definitely help put time into Remco and Roglic if he feels that this is needed to make sure they aren't a threat anymore.