Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

I think it's a little silly to respond to five different posts in five different posts and then immediately post two more posts and then end up quoting one of those, responding to yourself. There is an edit button for a reason.

That is your belief. My belief is it's a basic rule of bon ton. If you quote just the person you are responding to and respond to just that. Instead of mixing in and involving everybody. Unless the whole thing is of low grade in the first place. Then i agree a long wall of quotes makes more sense.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I don't think it would be necessary, because in march this thread will be very competitive when Roglic wheelsucks again Remco like he did on vuelta catalunya 2023, specially after Bora taking advantage in the TTT 😂

This thread will be very funny again.

In the end we always learn something new, from debating. Although i agree it's mostly jibber jab at this point.

The thing i learned from this pre season debates is some of you still live at Catalunya 2023 and some actually believe Rogla won't beat Jonas. Like not even joking.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

‘We know Roglic will beat us very often’ – Visma-Lease A Bike braced for new reality

Merijn Zeeman says team's success sparks drop in popularity in peloton

www.cyclingnews.com

It's not difficult at all to beat Vingegaard/Visma. It's all about beating him/them in JULY.

 

[Froome]

‘We know Roglic will beat us very often’ – Visma-Lease A Bike braced for new reality

Merijn Zeeman says team's success sparks drop in popularity in peloton

www.cyclingnews.com

If you look at the route of Tour basque country, it would be really bad for Roglic if he can't beat Vingegaard and Remco there.

Tour de France is another story, specially on climbs like col de la bonette.

 

[bNator]

If i were into guys, there is no way i'd pick Vingegaard over Roglic unless he does an insane Mick Jagger impersonation.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It's not difficult at all to beat Vingegaard/Visma. It's all about beating him/them in JULY.

In my opinion it's hard to beat Jonas at any stage race, that is what makes it special.

If you look at the route of Tour basque country, it would be really bad for Roglic if he can't beat Vingegaard and Remco there.

Tour de France is another story, specially on climbs like col de la bonette.

Nah, what was rather bad was Tour 2020 defeat. Still even that turned out to be a gift in disguise.

@bNator

That is a nice image to finish this debate from my side. As the whole debate started not because i accused anybody of not being able to read, although we did discuss much about semantics after, some even accusing me i can't write, cognitive laziness is what i was arguing about. Now seeing such image and knowing how little effort it takes, modern tools, to make it and to feed it to target public. Perfect tools to further instil modern day cognitive laziness.

Anyway, please don't bother me with anything if it's not important. In the next few days. I will watch Remco.

 

[bNator]

In my opinion it's hard to beat Jonas at any stage race, that is what makes it special.



Nah, what was rather bad was Tour 2020 defeat. Still even that turned out to be a gift in disguise.

@bNator

That is a nice image to finish this debate from my side. As the whole debate started not because i accused anybody of not being able to read, although we did discuss much about semantics after, some even accusing me i can't write, cognitive laziness is what i was arguing about. Now seeing such image and knowing how little effort it takes, modern tools, to make it and to feed it to target public. Perfect tools to further instil modern day cognitive laziness.

Anyway, please don't bother me with anything if it's not important. In the next few days. I will watch Remco.

Well if nothing else, you are staying true to your approach, where you feel you are entitled to express your opinion, expect others to acknowledge and respect your opinion yet do nothing to acknowledge and respect opinions of others yourself.

Who are you to say a discussion is over after you make negative comments that call for a reply? You said what you were going to say and now we shouldn’t bother you - yet you are free to bother other people whenever you feel like it.

Cognitivie laziness? Next time, you should consider how much effort it took you to refer to a podcast, post an instagram link or construct a meaningful comprehensive sentence...

 

[cellardoor]

If i were into guys, there is no way i'd pick Vingegaard over Roglic unless he does an insane Mick Jagger impersonation.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Rogla flitrs too much instead of finally banging!

 

[Froome]

Rogla flitrs too much instead of finally banging!

It's like possession of the ball in football. roglic has a lot of possession of the ball but doesn't shoot.

Vingegaard just needs one shot to score a goal.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

It's like possession of the ball in football. roglic has a lot of possession of the ball but doesn't shoot.

Vingegaard just needs one shot to score a goal.

I think Roglič would crush him in one-on-one football. Also the newly proposed blue card would just confuse him.

 

[Elos Anjos]

Are more threads becoming garbage like this one or mods have more good things to do before the season kicks in?

I won't blame them but it's hard to come back here and not become appaled. It just feels I'm back at highschool and I have go past all the constant mindless ramblings of jocks - keyboard warriors - who call it a day when they trigger users without arguments with (again) at least one of the following topics:

1) Roglic is old;
2) Roglic was lucky;
3) Roglic is a wheelsucker;
4) Roglic is boring;
5) Roglic can't climb;
6) Roglic can' attack;
7) Jumbo-Visma did some calculations and they have SCIENTIFICALLY assessed that Roglic has 5,72% less energy output than Vingo and that this rate converts into 5,81% after racing for two weeks; also, due to his fishmonger background, Vingo has more mitochondria per cell than any rider and can breed under water, just like Aquaman, you just wait for the Tour to see;
8) Rider (usually Remco or Vingo) will DESTROY Roglic unless something something happens, in which case I can again withhold my choices with a fine coat of logical explanations in order not to harm my self-esteem;

This trend bores the **** out of every user until the thread becomes a space for only the users that thrive on their constant broken record rants. The parasites have taken over the host.

 

[Extinction]

This is not F1 and i guess season 2024 should show, on why we love this sport so much.

It is in the current iteration. They know the facts and thus what can be done and what cannot be done, variables notwithstanding, as it's all about scientific predictions, based upon numerical probabilities. Go be a mountain goat and that's what you do, or go be a domestique and that's what you do. Go be a GT champion and, bar few, it's not what you do.

 

[Berniece]

Are more threads becoming garbage like this one or mods have more good things to do before the season kicks in?

I won't blame them but it's hard to come back here and not become appaled. It just feels I'm back at highschool and I have go past all the constant mindless ramblings of jocks - keyboard warriors - who call it a day when they trigger users without arguments with (again) at least one of the following topics:

1) Roglic is old;
2) Roglic was lucky;
3) Roglic is a wheelsucker;
4) Roglic is boring;
5) Roglic can't climb;
6) Roglic can' attack;
7) Jumbo-Visma did some calculations and they have SCIENTIFICALLY assessed that Roglic has 5,72% less energy output than Vingo and that this rate converts into 5,81% after racing for two weeks; also, due to his fishmonger background, Vingo has more mitochondria per cell than any rider and can breed under water, just like Aquaman, you just wait for the Tour to see;
8) Rider (usually Remco or Vingo) will DESTROY Roglic unless something something happens, in which case I can again withhold my choices with a fine coat of logical explanations in order not to harm my self-esteem;

This trend bores the **** out of every user until the thread becomes a space for only the users that thrive on their constant broken record rants. The parasites have taken over the host.

You forgot one

9) Roglic is the best rider in the world

 

[bNator]

It is in the current iteration. They know the facts and thus what can be done and what cannot be done, variables notwithstanding, as it's all about scientific predictions, based upon numerical probabilities. Go be a mountain goat and that's what you do, or go be a domestique and that's what you do. Go be a GT champion and, bar few, it's not what you do.

I actually believe science in sports is very primitive. I’m not basing that on any real knowledge of the subject but on the assumption that body as a complex system must be non-linear and difficult to model. I think they know jack *** to be honest. Any little change of parameters can probably have a huge effect they could not have predicted IMO…

 

[Froome]

You forgot one

9) Roglic is the best wheelsucker in the world

Now it's correct.

 

[tobydawq]

Now it's correct.

Droll.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

10) Roglič is the best woolsucker in the world

 

[Extinction]

I actually believe science in sports is very primitive. I’m not basing that on any real knowledge of the subject but on the assumption that body as a complex system must be non-linear and difficult to model. I think they know jack *** to be honest. Any little change of parameters can probably have a huge effect they could not have predicted IMO…

Maybe, but they know how much sustained power so-and-so versus so-and-so can generate. They also know recovery rates, lactate thresholds, VO2 max, blood parameters, etc. These parameters don't change or if they do...

 

[bNator]

Maybe, but they know how much sustained power so-and-so versus so-and-so can generate. They also know recovery rates, lactate thresholds, VO2 max, blood parameters, etc. These parameters don't change or if they do...

I'm not sure I understood your previous post correctly, but what I'm trying to say is it's not an exact science. Sure, Visma can have some idea based on their numbers how things are likely to go in 2024 and based on those numbers (and common sense) it makes sense to keep Vingegaard and ditch Roglic. But Vingegaard can have a bad year and Roglic a good one (the consequence of a change in parameters I was referring to) and all that science and numbers can suddenly look quite silly, which is what the cognitively active poster you were replying to was probably trying to convey (though we can't be sure, can we?).

Bottom line is, Roglic is a GT winning material, as he has proven many times. He was one stage away from winning TdF and saying he can't win TdF is ridiculous. Visma did let go a potential TdF winner (not to mention a consistent winner of some 15 races per year) so it probably wasn't as easy a decision as some provocateurs here would like it to be. Of course they kept a guy, who has won TdF and who is more likely to win TdF in the future, got some well-needed money and kept their team dynamics in check (for now). So it could turn out to be a correct decision for them...

 

[pablohidalgo7]

We are acting as if Roglic were not a machine of producing great numbers in training, when precisely that has always been one of his great strengths, I highly doubt that in the majority of tests Vingegaard is clearly superior or simply superior, the Dane's greatest advantage It is in the recovery and the ability to replicate almost the same numbers in hard race situations as when he is fresh, something quite difficult to measure in training. At most they could be based on data from the competitions themselves, although in Roglic's case it would not be a fair comparision because it rarely has a preparation or a GT in itself, without setbacks.
So it makes more sense for them to base it on the fact that Jonas is simply younger and has had two magnificent Tours without setbacks, another of his strengths and also in team cohesion, having a rider who isn´t comfortable there against his will is not a great idea and more so to someone who has given you so much and you should show respect and not give a bad image together at the end of the journey.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Well if nothing else, you are staying true to your approach, where you feel you are entitled to express your opinion, expect others to acknowledge and respect your opinion yet do nothing to acknowledge and respect opinions of others yourself.

Who are you to say a discussion is over after you make negative comments that call for a reply? You said what you were going to say and now we shouldn’t bother you - yet you are free to bother other people whenever you feel like it.

Cognitivie laziness? Next time, you should consider how much effort it took you to refer to a podcast, post an instagram link or construct a meaningful comprehensive sentence...

I fully agree with this. That is we all should refrain our self to preach to others.

I responded due to people feeling entitled to preach to me and suggesting i can't write, on how should i post, then when saying scrap that, it's for me to decide, further claims were made on how i am not polite and on how i should live by some other standard. Your whole post for example is really about preaching to me, something.

So yeah, get real.

As for cognitive laziness i feel it was the right thing to say. You should have watched the video i posted, before making the claims. As otherwise it's not really a discussion about the content itself. But more about me. So when i made the first post, OK some didn't understand on what i was on about, but when i posted the video explaining it. That should settle it and it didn't. So i do agree with the sentiment of your post. I hope all involved read it and do stick to it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

It is in the current iteration. They know the facts and thus what can be done and what cannot be done, variables notwithstanding, as it's all about scientific predictions, based upon numerical probabilities. Go be a mountain goat and that's what you do, or go be a domestique and that's what you do. Go be a GT champion and, bar few, it's not what you do.

Nah, it's still mostly about human body and soul.

P.S. Modern F1 on the other hand is much more about on who will get delegated the best technical package, although i agree the driver still needs to be talented. And the other problem is this then last for duration of lets say 5 years, then they introduce some changes and delegate the technical package to some other talented driver. It's just some self serving money machine and the rest was mostly lost.

 

[Extinction]

I'm not sure I understood your previous post correctly, but what I'm trying to say is it's not an exact science. Sure, Visma can have some idea based on their numbers how things are likely to go in 2024 and based on those numbers (and common sense) it makes sense to keep Vingegaard and ditch Roglic. But Vingegaard can have a bad year and Roglic a good one (the consequence of a change in parameters I was referring to) and all that science and numbers can suddenly look quite silly, which is what the cognitively active poster you were replying to was probably trying to convey (though we can't be sure, can we?).

Bottom line is, Roglic is a GT winning material, as he has proven many times. He was one stage away from winning TdF and saying he can't win TdF is ridiculous. Visma did let go a potential TdF winner (not to mention a consistent winner of some 15 races per year) so it probably wasn't as easy a decision as some provocateurs here would like it to be. Of course they kept a guy, who has won TdF and who is more likely to win TdF in the future, got some well-needed money and kept their team dynamics in check (for now). So it could turn out to be a correct decision for them...

As I have stated previously you can't plan thinking of the possiblity of having a bad season, but only on previous facts. And Vingegaard at the last two Tours was simply on another level, which neither Roglic, nor Pogacar have reached. I thus think its fair to say that Jonas is more aerobically efficient, that his ceiling is just higher than the rest. Naturally anyone can have a bad year, for which, yes, Roglic could still win the Tour in the twilight of his career. However, all things considered, if Vingegaard doesn't have a bad year, and there's no reason to think in the golden years of his career he's in right now that he would, bar crash or crazy incident, I don't think Roglic can beat him. Apparently Visma "knows" this based on the parameters they have in their files on each rider. So unless Roglic can up his game, victory at the Tour, while not impossible, I posit remains unlikely.

 

[Extinction]

Nah, it's still mostly about human body and soul.

P.S. Modern F1 on the other hand is much more about on who will get delegated the best technical package, although i agree the driver still needs to be talented. And the other problem is this then last for duration of lets say 5 years, then they introduce some changes and delegate the technical package to some other talented driver. It's just some self serving money machine and the rest was mostly lost.

I'm not so sure cycling hasn't also become about "who will get delegated the best technical package" in its various manifestations.