Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[Blanco]

Certainly not a fantastic start, but he limited the damage exceptionally today. I think he'll be good in the ITT, and then from stage 14 we'll see a top Rogla.

 

[Rackham]

Rog hates slow grinders, he suffers on Monte Bondone (which is a 'standard' HC MTF), he's up in down on shorter climbs.. all according to you. Which climbs are he actually good at then? Whats the plan here? Just try to follow as long as possible, do well in the time trials don't crash and finish somewhere between 3-5th as a result?

The Angliru? The ones which are decisive for GT wins?

The objective is to do his best possible job with his team & finish wherever he deserves with the result he's earned. It's also pretty self-evident the objective will be to have a strong third week. It served him well in the Vuelta 2021 & Giro 2023, so I don't think it's far fetched to assume that's the plan here.

In fact it clearly is the plan because Rolf Aldag just admitted the objective today was to follow, follow & follow for as long as possible - not attack: https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur...roglic-mardi-un-signal-plutot-positif/1479505

Roglič basically said today that he's fighting with himself and he's happy with how it went because it was a bit better then 2 days ago. He also knows he's fighting for podium, not TdF win.

He's fighting to do the best job. The rest is just people trying to create definitive rankings after stage 4. Those same people wanted definitive rankings after stage 2 as well.

It's bizarre. Pog is formidable but he has cracked before. I don't know the future but I find it weird how some people come in here & tell us exactly what Rog cannot achieve with quasi certainty.

 

[Netserk]

Rog hates slow grinders, he suffers on Monte Bondone (which is a 'standard' HC MTF), he's up in down on shorter climbs.. all according to you. Which climbs are he actually good at then? Whats the plan here? Just try to follow as long as possible, do well in the time trials don't crash and finish somewhere between 3-5th as a result?

Easy stage, steep final climb. See Angliru.

 

[Extinction]

The Roglic teleport is a super nice skill to win stages and get bonies.

I'd argue that the last two GTs he won was not due to the patented Roglic teleport, but demonstrating super high power in critical moments and the mental strength to limit losses on off days.

We need to see whether there is a correlation between the two. My guess would be, there might be some but not much. Power curves adjust weirdly with age, form and training. We will know by week three, but even then, likely we won't know.

He's older.

 

[Gargamel35]

On the other hand, Pog (one of best ever) is throwing everything possible out there and he's not much ahead. So not the end of the world.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It's bizarre. Pog is formidable but he has cracked before. I don't know the future but I find it weird how some people come in here & tell us exactly what Rog cannot achieve with quasi certainty.

Pogacar cracked due to Visma’s intense pace every single stage and having to go against as stronger/stronger rider in Vingegaard. Bora isn’t going to set the pace like Visma for fear of Roglic cracking and so far Roglic isn’t as strong as Pogacar. The only cracking is Giro fatigue at this moment.

 

[Filippo_3467]

Not a bad performance from Roglic. After Sunday you could have thought that he could blow up like S.Yates or Mas. Landa and Primoz struggeld the most from the elite riders in the group...but if TT is good he could outperform most of those guys...if the gravel stage goes well (that's a bit if) he could go into the second week as 3rd or 4th place. That would be his best position since the 2020 Tour to actually do something. But of course Pogacar and UAE look untouchable for now.

Don't know if there's a lack of team support. Clearly Hindley's level is really disappointing. he should be the guy that pops up with him in the last 10-12 riders. The Galibier really isn't Vlasov territory... could have expected a bit more but not much. Other then that I think the team support is good. Van Poppel seems to be in the climbing form of his life...hopefully he gets a chance to go into a break on the hilly stages. Denz and Haller also pretty good int the first to stages. Jugels doing Jungels stuff. Sobbrero maybe a bit disappointing as his climbing was on a better level early in the season.

Don't know if the team can do much for Roglic. Sunday will be important and he has the big benefit that the whole team will be focused on him. If there's a problem for Almeida or Ayuso they will be left behind and there could be one podium contender less. Vlasov, Denz and Jungels will be the key guys for him there...so maybe the lack of climbing level in the team won't be a factor there. The it's long time until the next real climbing stage. A lot can change until then.

 

[Keelhaul]

He's older.

Yeah that would impact the 10s - 1m part of his power curve, but he had sometimes issues in the past with longer efforts. On the other hand, he also had miraculous longer effort not so long ago.

It really is unpredictable with him. He was beaten by Mas 2 days ago on San Luca and he beat Mas by 3 minutes today. What gives?

Last part is probably the reality of things. It's not like Roglic is saving energy. He has to dig deep to limit the damage. When he was barely holding on to the group they showed a close up of Evenepoel who was still breathing through his nose. Pogacar was on the radio. Telling his team to push harder. Vingegaard was his usual stoic self.
They are probably saving more energy than Roglic because they don't have to go over threshold levels as early and often.

It really is more complicated than "digging deep". On an off day, you can be digging deep to put out 95% of your FTP and the next day, feel completely OK doing the same effort. Physiologically, god knows what is the effect. Calorie-wise, it is the same for example. Then there are a myriad of other factors.

 

[red_flanders]

Entirely possible he's the strongest he's ever been right now. The level of the others seems incredible. I'm not making a definitive statement, but given the time up the Galibier into a headwind, one has to wonder if comparing his level to others even has any meaning.

They all FLEW up the Galibier today. It's possible he's at his best ever level and just hanging on. Maybe not. But a question worth asking at this point.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Entirely possible he's the strongest he's ever been right now. The level of the others seems incredible. I'm not making a definitive statement, but given the time up the Galibier into a headwind, one has to wonder if comparing his level to others even has any meaning.

They all FLEW up the Galibier today. It's possible he's at his best ever level and just hanging on. Maybe not. But a question worth asking at this point.

Yeah, I mean they beat his Emilia record on stage 2 and everyone smashed the Galbier. Pogacar is likely the strongest he’s ever been so less ~40 seconds back, while not what he’d want or what I as a fan would want, is likely still a really strong effort. Take it for what you will, but LR’s Tim Broe, who works for VLAB, thinks Vingegaard showed today he is at the same level as last year. Very impressed by Remco, who was 23 seconds faster than Roglic up the climb.

 

[Berniece]

Not even sure he’ll finish top 5 if he keeps riding like this

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Are you just emphasizing that that is a ton of time to lose in 800 meters? Looks like Remco lost 14 seconds, Roglic 37. Yeah I agree it isn’t what you’d want to see if you’re hoping for yellow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808191849313530339

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1808191849313530339?s=46&t=14N416zK93up_7bVPO60Ig

 

[Extinction]

Yeah that would impact the 10s - 1m part of his power curve, but he had sometimes issues in the past with longer efforts. On the other hand, he also had miraculous longer effort not so long ago.

It really is unpredictable with him. He was beaten by Mas 2 days ago on San Luca and he beat Mas by 3 minutes today. What gives?



It really is more complicated than "digging deep". On an off day, you can be digging deep to put out 95% of your FTP and the next day, feel completely OK doing the same effort. Physiologically, god knows what is the effect. Calorie-wise, it is the same for example. Then there are a myriad of other factors.

I Hope he comes in flying form, he is the man to do it. But he has a many mountains to show and against this Pog I have doubts.

 

[Medvind]

So Pog distanced Rogla and CRod with 37s in 830 meters. The f**k!?

 

[Krzysztof_O]

So Pog distanced Rogla and CRod with 37s in 830 meters. The ***!?

That was a huge acceleration. Kudos to Vingo and Remco for losing little time.

 

[Oldermanish]

The descent has to do with maintaining speed through the curves. You don't lose on the descent because you raced the climb, Remco was a clear demonstration of this. You lose or gain because of craft. The same Jonas lost downhill doubtless because he was scared from the Itzulia fall. Roglic will find the last week difficult, because he struggles uphill.

There was alot of acceleration out of corners. That takes effort and if you don't have the power; you lose. Jonas descended the corners well and got caught progressively by Roglic, and then the rest of the group. There were no more turns.
If you completely blow on a climb it can take miles to regain your pulse and legs to push a big gear. It's not a free fall.

If anything was telling; it's how absolutely crazy Jonas descended yesterday on Stage 2. No fear, there. He wouldn't have stayed on Pogacar's wheel if fear overcame ability.

 

[Gargamel35]

The most impressive so far is actually Remco. He looks third best so far and closest too Pog/Vinge. Others are performing in their limits, Remco is performing better than expected. He's man to beat for third place and he can be dangerous even to Vinge.

What i do hope is Pog is burning his matches hard and taking Vinge with him. Both could explode in the third week. I don't think it will happen but man can hope.

If not, this is the land of mutants and mortals have no place in it.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Beautiful place, Galibier, for Slovenians, from one epic win to another, on top of that it again lifted Rogla. Now in top 5 already and i am sure that the plan is to be in top 3 by the end of the first ITT. Anything more then that, week one, pure bonus.

P.S. Some take things too much for granted. One has to understand that such moves, by superstars, rarely bare fruit. On where here progress can be seen from race to race, from stage to stage ... Two stages for sprinters now, rather to lose some time, IMHO, than to contest for positions in the bunch, that would be my advice. And to rest and prepare for an ITT. Spare the team as much as possible, will be needed in week 3, going for the overall. But first things first, still some steps in between and till there.

 

[Extinction]

There was alot of acceleration out of corners. That takes effort and if you don't have the power; you lose. Jonas descended the corners well and got caught progressively by Roglic, and then the rest of the group. There were no more turns.
If you completely blow on a climb it can take miles to regain your pulse and legs to push a big gear. It's not a free fall.

If anything was telling; it's how absolutely crazy Jonas descended yesterday on Stage 3. No fear, there. He wouldn't have stayed on Pogacar's wheel if fear overcame ability.

But cresting the climb in a good position means you haven't spent your watts, at that point it's up to craft, technique, whatever you want to call it .

 

[Oldermanish]

But cresting the climb in a good position means you haven't spent your watts, at that point it's up to craft, technique, whatever you want to call it .

Watch Pogacar; if he attacks a climb the attack is not finished until he has accelerated into his biggest gear possible for the descent. Cresting the hill isn't the end. Roglic does the same thing and dialed back from the red zone at altitude so he could get up to speed. You won't recover quickly if you go too deep but can use "craft" to catch on if you can get into serious pursuit mode. He did all of that or didn't you see him pass everyone in front of him to pursue Jonas and Pogi? He was on his own so he must have figured correctly.

 

[Extinction]

Watch Pogacar; if he attacks a climb the attack is not finished until he has accelerated into his biggest gear possible for the descent. Cresting the hill isn't the end. Roglic does the same thing and dialed back from the red zone at altitude so he could get up to speed. You won't recover quickly if you go too deep but can use "craft" to catch on if you can get into serious pursuit mode. He did all of that or didn't you see him pass everyone in front of him to pursue Jonas and Pogi? He was on his own so he must have figured correctly.

I saw him do that, but he was still dropped, which does not in my opinion bode well for him

 

[zlev11]

Are you just emphasizing that that is a ton of time to lose in 800 meters? Looks like Remco lost 14 seconds, Roglic 37. Yeah I agree it isn’t what you’d want to see if you’re hoping for yellow.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1808191849313530339

View: https://x.com/ammattipyoraily/status/1808191849313530339?s=46&t=14N416zK93up_7bVPO60Ig

he should've done the Tour in 2019 instead of the Giro. damn.

 

[red_flanders]

The most impressive so far is actually Remco. He looks third best so far and closest too Pog/Vinge. Others are performing in their limits, Remco is performing better than expected. He's man to beat for third place and he can be dangerous even to Vinge.

What i do hope is Pog is burning his matches hard and taking Vinge with him. Both could explode in the third week. I don't think it will happen but man can hope.

If not, this is the land of mutants and mortals have no place in it.

I would say rather he’s performing at the top limit of what was expected…so far. If at his best, a podium seemed within reach. He’s as good as we’ve ever seen, and a podium…seems within reach. If he can hold it.

IMO he has a higher ceiling and lower floor than Roglič, and more so Rodriguez, Ayuso, Almeida, etc.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

He did all of that or didn't you see him pass everyone in front of him to pursue Jonas and Pogi? He was on his own so he must have figured correctly.

Was he on his own? I thought he was with Rodriguez as they caught up to Jonas...

 

[Divergence]

So Vlasov and Hindley did not pull for Rog straight away in stage 2, thus leading us to suspect that they think they could go for GC themselves (also Johan Bruyneel said in his podcast that he heard that BORA are with 3 leaders). Where were they today? Unfortunately, it seems like he chose a joke of a team.
Regarding Rog himself, I do not think us, his fans, were expecting him to be more than 1min down after 4 stages, but let us hope that he tuned his form to just go up during this Tour. Many things can change during 21 stages, so there is no reason for desperation. However, it must be said that Pog looks like a guy from an another planet.