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Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

Page 681 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
When you are off the pace uphill, no matter what you do on the descent has nothing to do with your real level. He lacks something and the mountains that are coming don't bode well for him.
The one thing I learned and taught new riders: don't race to the summit to lose on the descent to the finish. Racing 101.
Every forum person including me had doubts about his form emergence after Dauphine. Today was the real deal and he didn't fold. It'd be interesting to see what Jonas and Remco would say about Primoz next weeks.
Talk after the TT.
 
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Red Bull Bora in general? I think they are quite disappointed and hoped for more than this. Its a big budget teams with many stars who have put all their eggs in this basket. Vlasov and Hindley are nowhere to be seen, and Roglic doesn't look super good himself either and is just 'getting by'.
They are all missing a bit. Don't now if they got something wrong. Now its 100% Roglic who has a chance for the podium.
 
The one thing I learned and taught new riders: don't race to the summit to lose on the descent to the finish. Racing 101.
Every forum person including me had doubts about his form emergence after Dauphine. Today was the real deal and he didn't fold. It'd be interesting to see what Jonas and Remco would say about Primoz next weeks.
Talk after the TT.
The descent has to do with maintaining speed through the curves. You don't lose on the descent because you raced the climb, Remco was a clear demonstration of this. You lose or gain because of craft. The same Jonas lost downhill doubtless because he was scared from the Itzulia fall. Roglic will find the last week difficult, because he struggles uphill.
 
Man it's just too early to tell. It's extremely hard to predict who peaks when, how fatigue impacts riders, especially true for both Pogi and Vinge. Minor infections come and go, a couple of bad days of sleep, three weeks is an INSANELY long time. We've seen Roglic improve and decline relative to his competition and he won and lost races either way.

If these were off days, then he did relatively well to limit losses, but of course he needs to put pressure on opponents at some point if he wants to win the race.

Both Pogacar and Vingegaard has reasons to have bad days. Roglic is capable of miraculous days. We will see. It is going to be super fun. So far it's Pogi's race to lose.
 
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So you actually think Rog is in crescendo?

Yep.

A form curve isn't linear between races, not for this rider. I'd say for example he was much better in Catalunya back in March 2023 than he was in the first week of the Giro over a month later. But by the time Monte Lussari came about at the end of week 3, he was firing on all cylinders.

The most important thing is no crashes. That's the sine qua non for a successful Tour which gets Red Bull a podium.

Also, speaking of Catalunya 2023, stage 3's finish at La Molina pretty much encapsulated the exact same fast grind on shallower gradients which Rog hates. It's how Evenepoel beat him that day (& dropped him at the end). This isn't news to anyone. It's just the way he is. So the fact he survived today should make his team quite hopeful regarding what's coming next.
 
So long-range defence continues. In the first few days Primoz lost more time than one would expect, he lacks some power uphill. But the race is still long, maybe he will actually get stronger later and the fight for top3 is still very much open with 8 guys in contention.

Given my prior expectation, it is a bit more, but given the racing, I think he is kind of doing okay-ish in terms of outcome.

Pogi is burning matches left and right - if he is able to keep this up in weeks 2 and 3, he wins, but that is an unprecedented level. Rog imo has been the most economical out of the big 4 in these days, but 80% of that was being forced to do so, but it could be beneficial in the long run.
 
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Yep.

A form curve isn't linear between races, not for this rider. I'd say for example he was much better in Catalunya back in March 2023 than he was in the first week of the Giro over a month later. But by the time Monte Lussari came about at the end of week 3, he was firing on all cylinders.

The most important thing is no crashes. That's the sine qua non for a successful Tour which gets Red Bull a podium.

Also, speaking of Catalunya 2023, stage 3's finish at La Molina pretty much encapsulated the exact same fast grind on shallower gradients which Rog hates. It's how Evenepoel beat him that day (& dropped him at the end). This isn't news to anyone. It's just the way he is. So the fact he survived today should make his team quite hopeful regarding what's coming next.
I would have thought Rog needed to show a sign of strength on San Luca (precisely his territory) and today have been with Vingegaard to believe your forecast. After all, he's not racing against Thomas for the win.
 
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I would have thought Rog needed to show a sign of strength on San Luca (precisely his territory) and today have been with Vingegaard to believe your forecast. After all, he's not racing against Thomas for the win.

The Roglic teleport is a super nice skill to win stages and get bonies.

I'd argue that the last two GTs he won was not due to the patented Roglic teleport, but demonstrating super high power in critical moments and the mental strength to limit losses on off days.

We need to see whether there is a correlation between the two. My guess would be, there might be some but not much. Power curves adjust weirdly with age, form and training. We will know by week three, but even then, likely we won't know.
 
The Roglic teleport is a super nice skill to win stages and get bonies.

I'd argue that the last two GTs he won was not due to the patented Roglic teleport, but demonstrating super high power in critical moments and the mental strength to limit losses on off days.

We need to see whether there is a correlation between the two. My guess would be, there might be some but not much. Power curves adjust weirdly with age, form and training. We will know by week three, but even then, likely we won't know.
Or he could just as well collapse in the decisive moment as in 2020. Look, he's old, on a new team, so I think his time has come.
 
Given my prior expectation, it is a bit more, but given the racing, I think he is kind of doing okay-ish in terms of outcome.

Pogi is burning matches left and right - if he is able to keep this up in weeks 2 and 3, he wins, but that is an unprecedented level. Rog imo has been the most economical out of the big 4 in these days, but 80% of that was being forced to do so, but it could be beneficial in the long run.

Last part is probably the reality of things. It's not like Roglic is saving energy. He has to dig deep to limit the damage. When he was barely holding on to the group they showed a close up of Evenepoel who was still breathing through his nose. Pogacar was on the radio. Telling his team to push harder. Vingegaard was his usual stoic self.
They are probably saving more energy than Roglic because they don't have to go over threshold levels as early and often.
 
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Yep.

A form curve isn't linear between races, not for this rider. I'd say for example he was much better in Catalunya back in March 2023 than he was in the first week of the Giro over a month later. But by the time Monte Lussari came about at the end of week 3, he was firing on all cylinders.

The most important thing is no crashes. That's the sine qua non for a successful Tour which gets Red Bull a podium.

Also, speaking of Catalunya 2023, stage 3's finish at La Molina pretty much encapsulated the exact same fast grind on shallower gradients which Rog hates. It's how Evenepoel beat him that day (& dropped him at the end). This isn't news to anyone. It's just the way he is. So the fact he survived today should make his team quite hopeful regarding what's coming next.
Rog hates slow grinders, he suffers on Monte Bondone (which is a 'standard' HC MTF), he's up in down on shorter climbs.. all according to you. Which climbs are he actually good at then? Whats the plan here? Just try to follow as long as possible, do well in the time trials don't crash and finish somewhere between 3-5th as a result?
 
Rog hates slow grinders, he suffers on Monte Bondone (which is a 'standard' HC MTF), he's up in down on shorter climbs.. all according to you. Which climbs are he actually good at then? Whats the plan here? Just try to follow as long as possible, do well in the time trials don't crash and finish somewhere between 3-5th as a result?

The Angliru? The ones which are decisive for GT wins?

The objective is to do his best possible job with his team & finish wherever he deserves with the result he's earned. It's also pretty self-evident the objective will be to have a strong third week. It served him well in the Vuelta 2021 & Giro 2023, so I don't think it's far fetched to assume that's the plan here.

In fact it clearly is the plan because Rolf Aldag just admitted the objective today was to follow, follow & follow for as long as possible - not attack: https://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur...roglic-mardi-un-signal-plutot-positif/1479505

Roglič basically said today that he's fighting with himself and he's happy with how it went because it was a bit better then 2 days ago. He also knows he's fighting for podium, not TdF win.

He's fighting to do the best job. The rest is just people trying to create definitive rankings after stage 4. Those same people wanted definitive rankings after stage 2 as well.

It's bizarre. Pog is formidable but he has cracked before. I don't know the future but I find it weird how some people come in here & tell us exactly what Rog cannot achieve with quasi certainty.
 
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Rog hates slow grinders, he suffers on Monte Bondone (which is a 'standard' HC MTF), he's up in down on shorter climbs.. all according to you. Which climbs are he actually good at then? Whats the plan here? Just try to follow as long as possible, do well in the time trials don't crash and finish somewhere between 3-5th as a result?
Easy stage, steep final climb. See Angliru.
 
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The Roglic teleport is a super nice skill to win stages and get bonies.

I'd argue that the last two GTs he won was not due to the patented Roglic teleport, but demonstrating super high power in critical moments and the mental strength to limit losses on off days.

We need to see whether there is a correlation between the two. My guess would be, there might be some but not much. Power curves adjust weirdly with age, form and training. We will know by week three, but even then, likely we won't know.
He's older.
 
It's bizarre. Pog is formidable but he has cracked before. I don't know the future but I find it weird how some people come in here & tell us exactly what Rog cannot achieve with quasi certainty.
Pogacar cracked due to Visma’s intense pace every single stage and having to go against as stronger/stronger rider in Vingegaard. Bora isn’t going to set the pace like Visma for fear of Roglic cracking and so far Roglic isn’t as strong as Pogacar. The only cracking is Giro fatigue at this moment.
 
Not a bad performance from Roglic. After Sunday you could have thought that he could blow up like S.Yates or Mas. Landa and Primoz struggeld the most from the elite riders in the group...but if TT is good he could outperform most of those guys...if the gravel stage goes well (that's a bit if) he could go into the second week as 3rd or 4th place. That would be his best position since the 2020 Tour to actually do something. But of course Pogacar and UAE look untouchable for now.

Don't know if there's a lack of team support. Clearly Hindley's level is really disappointing. he should be the guy that pops up with him in the last 10-12 riders. The Galibier really isn't Vlasov territory... could have expected a bit more but not much. Other then that I think the team support is good. Van Poppel seems to be in the climbing form of his life...hopefully he gets a chance to go into a break on the hilly stages. Denz and Haller also pretty good int the first to stages. Jugels doing Jungels stuff. Sobbrero maybe a bit disappointing as his climbing was on a better level early in the season.

Don't know if the team can do much for Roglic. Sunday will be important and he has the big benefit that the whole team will be focused on him. If there's a problem for Almeida or Ayuso they will be left behind and there could be one podium contender less. Vlasov, Denz and Jungels will be the key guys for him there...so maybe the lack of climbing level in the team won't be a factor there. The it's long time until the next real climbing stage. A lot can change until then.
 
He's older.
Yeah that would impact the 10s - 1m part of his power curve, but he had sometimes issues in the past with longer efforts. On the other hand, he also had miraculous longer effort not so long ago.

It really is unpredictable with him. He was beaten by Mas 2 days ago on San Luca and he beat Mas by 3 minutes today. What gives?

Last part is probably the reality of things. It's not like Roglic is saving energy. He has to dig deep to limit the damage. When he was barely holding on to the group they showed a close up of Evenepoel who was still breathing through his nose. Pogacar was on the radio. Telling his team to push harder. Vingegaard was his usual stoic self.
They are probably saving more energy than Roglic because they don't have to go over threshold levels as early and often.

It really is more complicated than "digging deep". On an off day, you can be digging deep to put out 95% of your FTP and the next day, feel completely OK doing the same effort. Physiologically, god knows what is the effect. Calorie-wise, it is the same for example. Then there are a myriad of other factors.
 
Entirely possible he's the strongest he's ever been right now. The level of the others seems incredible. I'm not making a definitive statement, but given the time up the Galibier into a headwind, one has to wonder if comparing his level to others even has any meaning.

They all FLEW up the Galibier today. It's possible he's at his best ever level and just hanging on. Maybe not. But a question worth asking at this point.
 
Entirely possible he's the strongest he's ever been right now. The level of the others seems incredible. I'm not making a definitive statement, but given the time up the Galibier into a headwind, one has to wonder if comparing his level to others even has any meaning.

They all FLEW up the Galibier today. It's possible he's at his best ever level and just hanging on. Maybe not. But a question worth asking at this point.
Yeah, I mean they beat his Emilia record on stage 2 and everyone smashed the Galbier. Pogacar is likely the strongest he’s ever been so less ~40 seconds back, while not what he’d want or what I as a fan would want, is likely still a really strong effort. Take it for what you will, but LR’s Tim Broe, who works for VLAB, thinks Vingegaard showed today he is at the same level as last year. Very impressed by Remco, who was 23 seconds faster than Roglic up the climb.
 
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