Teams & Riders Everybody needs a little bit of Roglstomp in their lives

[CyclistAbi]

@veganrob

Brutal for the competition that is. Vamos Rogla!

 

[Mako]

The remainder of the Vuelta is brutal. If Roglic back is ailing him that is not good.
Whatever, the rest of the race will be fun to watch.

Define brutal. Have you looked at the stages a bit closer? I think the only brutal stage is stage 20. The rest look like Roglic terrain. Easy run ins to MTF's. 3 hard climbs back-to-back-to-back like on stage 9 is hardly Roglic terrain, but easy run ins to MTF's will suit him better than his competitors I'd say.

But then again, I'm a Roglic fan, so I like to make the best of things

 

[Sciatic]

Still weird how Roglic fumbled this Vuelta (vs this field..) Massive L to give O'Connor that lead. Not a good/posetive sign for leadership for coming years at all. Doesnt help that he only will get weaker relative to his competitors either.

Been discussed probably too many times already, but that was a DS mistake/decision to give the break all that time. You could argue that Roglic should have imposed his will and disregarded the team instructions, but few riders aside from Pogacar (who seems to have free rein to change the plan) ever do that. Disastrous decision making n the team car.

 

[Oldermanish]

I really like him as a rider but I have my own opinion about stage 6. I'll say it very simple - if Jonas or Pogacar were in red they are not giving away that jersey. Pogacar had opportunities to give away pink in the Giro but he didn't. Remco also has this mentality of giving away the leader's jersey like he is afraid of the pressure. In the end it's a gamble and you burn a lot more energy trying to get it back. Also it's a mental thing. You guys may think it's funny but Roglic should be bossing this peloton in the red jersey. I don't know if he wanted to give it away or was it all part of Patxi Villa's 'amazing' masterplan.

Yeah, bossing. At above 100 degrees F for a week there isn't much bossing for anyone. It's who has the best survival strategy at each major challenge and doesn't waste excess resources, including the team.
Pogacar couldn't give the Pink jersey away. No one wanted it.

 

[Oldermanish]

Been discussed probably too many times already, but that was a DS mistake/decision to give the break all that time. You could argue that Roglic should have imposed his will and disregarded the team instructions, but few riders aside from Pogacar (who seems to have free rein to change the plan) ever do that. Disastrous decision making n the team car.

Unless someone has seen a quote the best "plan" to ease that pressure is to never allow a break more than 2 minutes. If he was outwardly giving up more then Roglic should've resisted.
Bear in mind when Roglic was purely motivated on Stage 4 he took 45 seconds back in...1km. Watching the last 30km of rolling Stage 6 you could tell it got away from all of the teams; each hedging that Bora would eventually chase. O'Connor stayed cool enough for an exceptional day and he may yet keep Red the entire way.

 

[Gargamel35]

Should call it a season after Vuelta then.

The most worrying part by far is that the pain isn't going away

It can't go away if he rides at Vuelta. Musv

I really like him as a rider but I have my own opinion about stage 6. I'll say it very simple - if Jonas or Pogacar were in red they are not giving away that jersey. Pogacar had opportunities to give away pink in the Giro but he didn't. Remco also has this mentality of giving away the leader's jersey like he is afraid of the pressure. In the end it's a gamble and you burn a lot more energy trying to get it back. Also it's a mental thing. You guys may think it's funny but Roglic should be bossing this peloton in the red jersey. I don't know if he wanted to give it away or was it all part of Patxi Villa's 'amazing' masterplan.

You can boss around if you have a very good team that support and control on flat terrain and in the mountains and you are 20% better than the rest. Roglič doesn't have that.

 

[bNator]

Regarding giving out jerseys: I hate this approach as well. In my book, it projects weakness, lack of intent and calls for trouble. However... RBH are not even a top 3 team this Vuelta. I'd say UAE, VLaB, Decathlon and possibly even Movistar are all better. I don't remember it ever being done (winning a GT) with such a weak team. As much as I've criticised them leaving so much time to Ben O'Connor, it may prove a genius move at the end, all things considered. Roglic could have been a minute behind Mas at this point which is far worse than being 4 minutes behind O'Connor. He can actually use Decathlon almost as his own little team right now because O'Connor is just so much weaker than him that Roglic will never (injuries excluded) be dropped by their tempo.

 

[Divergence]

Regarding giving out jerseys: I hate this approach as well. In my book, it projects weakness, lack of intent and calls for trouble. However... RBH are not even a top 3 team this Vuelta. I'd say UAE, VLaB, Decathlon and possibly even Movistar are all better. I don't remember it ever being done (winning a GT) with such a weak team. As much as I've criticised them leaving so much time to Ben O'Connor, it may prove a genius move at the end, all things considered. Roglic could have been a minute behind Mas at this point which is far worse than being 4 minutes behind O'Connor. He can actually use Decathlon almost as his own little team right now because O'Connor is just so much weaker than him that Roglic will never (injuries excluded) be dropped by their tempo.

Truth to be told, if Vlasov did not crash and was at his level and Martinez was at his normal level RBH would have been the 2nd best team at the Vuelta. Alas, they are performing as they are and RBH are quite weak.

 

[dazaau]

Regarding giving out jerseys: I hate this approach as well. In my book, it projects weakness, lack of intent and calls for trouble. However... RBH are not even a top 3 team this Vuelta. I'd say UAE, VLaB, Decathlon and possibly even Movistar are all better. I don't remember it ever being done (winning a GT) with such a weak team. As much as I've criticised them leaving so much time to Ben O'Connor, it may prove a genius move at the end, all things considered. Roglic could have been a minute behind Mas at this point which is far worse than being 4 minutes behind O'Connor. He can actually use Decathlon almost as his own little team right now because O'Connor is just so much weaker than him that Roglic will never (injuries excluded) be dropped by their tempo.

They have Vlasov, Martinez, Lipowitz - who has a better mountain train than that here? UAE suffered from too many leaders but now don't really have any. Bora is pretty good, at least on paper.

I'm not sure how Roglic could be a minute behind Mas? Roglic has had his number on every stage except 9, but the descent and flat ruined it.

 

[SHAD0W93]

Regarding giving out jerseys: I hate this approach as well. In my book, it projects weakness, lack of intent and calls for trouble. However... RBH are not even a top 3 team this Vuelta. I'd say UAE, VLaB, Decathlon and possibly even Movistar are all better. I don't remember it ever being done (winning a GT) with such a weak team. As much as I've criticised them leaving so much time to Ben O'Connor, it may prove a genius move at the end, all things considered. Roglic could have been a minute behind Mas at this point which is far worse than being 4 minutes behind O'Connor. He can actually use Decathlon almost as his own little team right now because O'Connor is just so much weaker than him that Roglic will never (injuries excluded) be dropped by their tempo.

Contador won 2011 and 2015 Giro with a fairly weak team. There were even jokes about Porte being so far behind in the 2011 edition in order to catch Contador if he fell off the top.

 

[bNator]

They have Vlasov, Martinez, Lipowitz - who has a better mountain train than that here? UAE suffered from too many leaders but now don't really have any. Bora is pretty good, at least on paper.

I'm not sure how Roglic could be a minute behind Mas? Roglic has had his number on every stage except 9, but the descent and flat ruined it.

Yes, on paper they were perhaps the second strongest team only to UAE (before Almeida dropping out). However due to various reasons what manifests on the road is far from what could be expected of a team like that. And the fact is Roglic has no mountain train at the moment and no team which could control any kind of breakaways.

Regarding Mas being a minute ahead. Take away Decathlon's interest to pull on the last climb and the valley it was followed by and see how much time they lose to Mas. Yes, it was an exaggeration but it sure as hell wouldn't have been 0.

 

[dazaau]

Yes, on paper they were perhaps the second strongest team only to UAE (before Almeida dropping out). However due to various reasons what manifests on the road is far from what could be expected of a team like that. And the fact is Roglic has no mountain train at the moment and no team which could control any kind of breakaways.

Regarding Mas being a minute ahead. Take away Decathlon's interest to pull on the last climb and the valley it was followed by and see how much time they lose to Mas. Yes, it was an exaggeration but it sure as hell wouldn't have been 0.

Perhaps, I really felt Mas deserved it too!

 

[CyclistAbi]

At one point indeed a question will need to be raised, on why they suck as a team, especially on anything resembling a hill, considering the names involved. Lets hope they figure this one out during this Vuelta. Positioning and keeping Rogla at front on a non hilly terrain already improved, compared to the Tour, on where that was a total failure too.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Lipowitz was there in the GC group despite working very early. One teammate in that spot is pretty normal. Rogla just sucked on Sunday.

Sucked wheel.

 

[Oldermanish]

At one point indeed a question will need to be raised, on why they suck as a team, especially on anything resembling a hill, considering the names involved. Lets hope they figure this one out during this Vuelta. Positioning and keeping Rogla at front on a non hilly terrain already improved, compared to the Tour, on where that was a total failure too.

Now that it's a little cooler he seems to have more guys around him. Today's stage also didn't really have monster/steep terrain to get separation so that may be why they came back together.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Now that it's a little cooler he seems to have more guys around him. Today's stage also didn't really have monster/steep terrain to get separation so that may be why they came back together.

Yeah, today the bull and the bullies even stretched their legs a bit, to keep the circulation going. Tomorrow likely the same then all the way to Sunday a festival of power. Hopefully.

 

[Peyroteo94]

Tomorrow is a big day for him. He should put the hammer down and get a minute on O'Connor

 

[CyclistAbi]

Tomorrow is a big day for him. He should put the hammer down and get a minute on O'Connor

I mean anything is possible and you never know what happens during the stage but i don't fell tomorrow is it. Pressure will likely start to be applied a day after tomorrow. For at least a stage win or two in week two. Jersey likely best if still left on loan.

So who will win more stages at this edition, Rogla or Wout?

 

[Sciatic]

I mean anything is possible and you never know what happens during the stage but i don't fell tomorrow is it. Pressure will likely start to be applied a day after tomorrow. For at least a stage win or two in week two. Jersey likely best if still left on loan.

So who will win more stages at this edition, Rogla or Wout?

Tomorrow is a decent setup for launching: ~3km @ 9% and then a steep descent to the finish. Not a bad way to gain back a small chunk. Of course Carapaz or one of the guys 5-6 minutes back could have several minutes in hand by then.

 

[CyclistAbi]

Tomorrow is a decent setup for launching: ~3km @ 9% and then a steep descent to the finish. Not a bad way to gain back a small chunk. Of course Carapaz or one of the guys 5-6 minutes back could have several minutes in hand by then.

Possibly but if attempted likely only to get caught. If other teams do the work and stage win still for grabs, why not. Tactics of setting hard pace for what is to come at the end of week two likely not the best strategy for tomorrow either, better opportunities to come. We'll see.

 

[Sciatic]

Possibly but if attempted likely only to get caught. If other teams do the work and stage win still for grabs, why not. Tactics of setting hard pace for what is to come at the end of week two likely not the best strategy for tomorrow either, better opportunities to come. We'll see.

I didn’t mean for stage win, but simply to get some time back on O’Connor. Just sit on O’Connor’s wheel until 1 km from the top of final
climb, then it’s only 6km from there to the finish, most of that a fairly steep descent. May not work, but doesn’t require controlling the race all day. Bigger problem could be if Carapaz or Yates are already way out from and Jayco doesn’t chase.

 

[CyclistAbi]

I didn’t mean for stage win, but simply to get some time back on O’Connor. Just sit on O’Connor’s wheel until 1 km from the top of final
climb, then it’s only 6km from there to the finish, most of that a fairly steep descent. May not work, but doesn’t require controlling the race all day. Bigger problem could be if Carapaz or Yates are already way out from and Jayco doesn’t chase.

But why? Too little to gain, at least a stage win should then be at play too. On top of that the team would likely be riding hard all day for that. Now here there are one or two possibilities at play. That is OK Rogla, we can't support you in mountains then at least let us give it all on this flattish terrain, Rogla should respectfully decline, or if other teams cooperate then Rogla can dedicate a team member or two, to keep the breakaway in check. Anything else should in my opinion wait for the day after tomorrow. We'll see.

 

[Sciatic]

But why? Too little to gain, at least a stage win should then be at play too. On top of that the team would likely be riding hard all day for that. Now here there are one or two possibilities at play. That is OK Rogla, we can't support you in mountains then at least let us give it all on this flattish terrain, Rogla should respectfully decline, or if other teams cooperate then Rogla can dedicate a team member or two, to keep the breakaway in check. Anything else should in my opinion wait for the day after tomorrow. We'll see.

We will see indeed! Should be fun.

 

[Oldermanish]

At one point indeed a question will need to be raised, on why they suck as a team, especially on anything resembling a hill, considering the names involved. Lets hope they figure this one out during this Vuelta. Positioning and keeping Rogla at front on a non hilly terrain already improved, compared to the Tour, on where that was a total failure too.

They woke up today. Good time to get into the mix, too.

 

[Oldermanish]

I didn’t mean for stage win, but simply to get some time back on O’Connor. Just sit on O’Connor’s wheel until 1 km from the top of final
climb, then it’s only 6km from there to the finish, most of that a fairly steep descent. May not work, but doesn’t require controlling the race all day. Bigger problem could be if Carapaz or Yates are already way out from and Jayco doesn’t chase.

This all happened as it should!