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Favourite "Dirty" Performance

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Martinello

Aug 12, 2009
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Jalaberts Vuelta in 1995.

A sprinter all of a sudden turned climber, GT rider and time trialist - not bad.

Although Laurent had a strong team with him as well as being helped by the non-start of Escartin and the early departure of Riis (crash in the first TT), his performance was totally insane.
He was in the lead from stage 3 and on. Won 5 stages (and gave stage 12 or 13 away to Henn or Dietz - my memory fails me on that one). He also won the mountains and points competitions, needless to say that ONCE also took the team classification.

On second thought - the entire year of 1995 must rate as one of the all times high for a rider in modern times. Jalabert won big races from early spring to late fall, both classics, one week tours, a GT, came 4th in the TdF (+ the green jersey)
 
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Digger

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Martinello said:
Jalaberts Vuelta in 1995.

A sprinter all of a sudden turned climber, GT rider and time trialist - not bad.

Although Laurent had a strong team with him as well as being helped by the non-start of Escartin and the early departure of Riis (crash in the first TT), his performance was totally insane.
He was in the lead from stage 3 and on. Won 5 stages (and gave stage 12 or 13 away to Henn or Dietz - my memory fails me on that one). He also won the mountains and points competitions, needless to say that ONCE also took the team classification.

On second thought - the entire year of 1995 must rate as one of the all times high for a rider in modern times. Jalabert won big races from early spring to late fall, both classics, one week tours, a GT, came 4th in the TdF (+ the green jersey)
Click to expand...

Great post.
 
usedtobefast

usedtobefast

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VeloFidelis said:
OK, let's see if anyone here can get really creative and come up with a result... any result that is clean beyond any shadow of doubt. Go back as far as you want. I contend that there are none.

I do not get too absorbed in all the current controversies over abuse, because I maintain that any Pro smart enough to read a race, is smart enough to prepare for it. And although preparation does, and has meant many things over the decades of cycling history, no one has ever won a major classic or grand tour with out some form of enhancement legal or otherwise.

The hairs continually being split on this site over "cheating" and "clean" are blurred by sentiment, hero worship, nationalism, and vilification, and all share the same subjective bias. Cheating is human nature. However we choose to justify it, or vilify it has no bearing on the fact that it is, and always will be a component of competition, and it is not limited to cycling.

My greatest hope is that the Blood Passport system accomplishes the potential affect of teaching every rider, and team physician how to effectively dope without causing undo scrutuny, which is to say maintain a level that is less than life threatening and on par with their breatheren in the peloton, and doping in sport can become less an issue. That is exactly the way it was before drug testing.

Why should we care if they dope as long as there is parity among the riders (something the Blood Passport might actually be good for). We certainly don't care in other sports like American Football or International Football. Their controls are a joke, and the fans don't care. An NFL players average LIFESPAN is 56 years! (52 for Lineman)

What's the point here?... Most ex Pro cyclist seem to age gracefully with apparently few reprecussions from their involvement in the sport. Unlike a Mohamad Ali, they go on to live a normal life. Why should we be so concerned with their biological safety, and post career quality of life when we are so much less concerned in other sports?

These are grown men who take life threatening risks in every race that they enter, and we the fans call it entertainment and the spirit of competition. If they choose to take other risks to remain competitive then that is also a matter for grown men to decide. They still have to train, they still have to compete, they still need talent and a unique physiology. The best of them are already freaks of nature anyway. Why should we be so concerned about what they do with their natural abilities? They couldn't have gotten there without them. It seems an absurd practice to be ruining the lives and livelihoods of a select and unfortunate few, for something that every pro participates in to a greater or lesser degree.
Click to expand...

well said. although gossip is also human nature it seems. so we debate and
argue anyway.:cool:
 
Berzin

Berzin

Aug 6, 2009
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Someone mentioned Jalabert's 1995 performances. I totally concur.

Here is my list-

1) The whole Gewiss team from 1994-96.

2) Bjarne Riis, 1996 Tour de France. This one stands out in my mind for one reason specifically. He did something I've never seen another rider do-on a mountain stage he purposely kept yo-yoing off the front to see how the other riders were doing.

This may have become urban legend by now but I believe he did this two-three times before taking off on the leading pack and heading for a solo victory that pretty much sealed the deal.

I've never seen such an arrogant display of drug-fueled power.

3) Lance Armstrong, 1999 Tour de France, where the myth was born and this one-time glorified Classics rider suddenly becomes the best climber and time trialist in the world.

His fanboys never bat an eyelash to the sheer physical implausibility of his transformation, and we have been divided between haters and teabaggers ever since.
 
tockit

tockit

Jul 22, 2009
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Originally Posted by Max Cadence
What comes to my mind when I think of dirty racing is the 1999 Amstel Gold Race when Armstrong sliced past a parked camera motorcycle and caused the elimination of two competitors. Now that's dirty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raw7dFiu1Hw

Hugh Januss said:
I'm no Lance fanboy but it looked to me like he had his head down and only just missed the photog bike himself. I would say that one was on the moto driver.
Click to expand...

I'll have to agree with Januss on this one. I'm no Lance worshipper either, but I blame the camera man for that crash. Lance was just taking the fastest line, sweeping from the outside of the road, then diving into the apex of the turn.

The camera man shouldn't have been in the road, period.
 
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kiwirider

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usedtobefast said:
can't say i saw it that way.:cool:
Click to expand...
Down south we called it bridging someone ... :cool:

We used to do that sort of thing all the time when I was club and regional road racing. But there was a "code of honour" that said you could only do it to wheel suckers who didn't take their turn.

Almost all of our races were on open roads, so we had to hang on the shoulder of the road. There were usually bridges and so forth that narrowed the shoulder down quite markedly. If you had someone in the bunch who wasn't taking their turn and was just waiting for the sprint then the word would go around and at the next opportunity we'd make for the bridge parapet and then pull across at the last minute. Everyone taking their turn was fine - they knew what was happening and could see the bridge coming when they were on the front. Wheel suckers ... well, it wasn't so good for them ... Goal was never to actually cause a crash - more to cause a dose of "oh ****!!" braking that gapped them off the back and at least made them work to get back and at best saw them drop off the bunch ...

Variation B involved using pot holes for a similar effect - except the goal was to force the "offender" onto the soft shoulder ... :rolleyes:

Oh, and don't get a bad impression of Kiwis from this - we're really nice and friendly people ... honestly we are ... :D
 
usedtobefast

usedtobefast

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kiwirider said:
Down south we called it bridging someone ... :cool:

We used to do that sort of thing all the time when I was club and regional road racing. But there was a "code of honour" that said you could only do it to wheel suckers who didn't take their turn.

Almost all of our races were on open roads, so we had to hang on the shoulder of the road. There were usually bridges and so forth that narrowed the shoulder down quite markedly. If you had someone in the bunch who wasn't taking their turn and was just waiting for the sprint then the word would go around and at the next opportunity we'd make for the bridge parapet and then pull across at the last minute. Everyone taking their turn was fine - they knew what was happening and could see the bridge coming when they were on the front. Wheel suckers ... well, it wasn't so good for them ... Goal was never to actually cause a crash - more to cause a dose of "oh ****!!" braking that gapped them off the back and at least made them work to get back and at best saw them drop off the bunch ...

Variation B involved using pot holes for a similar effect - except the goal was to force the "offender" onto the soft shoulder ... :rolleyes:

Oh, and don't get a bad impression of Kiwis from this - we're really nice and friendly people ... honestly we are ... :D
Click to expand...

so lance flicked them by just getting around the moto. ok, i see that and it is dirty, hardcore racing. "when the flag drops, the bulls@#$ stops." not everyone does that, but guys do. the guys that crashed should have been
more on the ball.:cool:
 
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aarnold517

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bastigon said:
Frankie boy! :) La carnicería!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8MOQuF4_BI

Looks sick..
Click to expand...

Got to be VDB in the vuelta

Not only was he able to attack the favorites after setting an intense pace all the way up the mountain, but he also went on to win the stage, dropping the group by eighteen seconds after attacking with only about a kilometer to go. Ridiculously doped up performance but awesome nonetheless
 
Alpe d'Huez

Alpe d'Huez

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VeloFidelis said:
OK, let's see if anyone here can get really creative and come up with a result... any result that is clean beyond any shadow of doubt.
Click to expand...
Lemond's wins. Orbee's Hour Record. Delion's 1992 Tour stage win. Simeoni's Italian Championship.

But what's the point?

I'm going to concede that Vandenbroucke clip is almost comical. His bleach blonde hair, and the fact that he drops Ullrich, Jiminiez, Heras, Piepoli, Tonkov and everyone else (all doped) like flies is laughable in retrospect.
 
Izoard

Izoard

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Alpe d'Huez said:
I'm going to concede that Vandenbroucke clip is almost comical. His bleach blonde hair, and the fact that he drops Ullrich, Jiminiez, Heras, Piepoli, Tonkov and everyone else (all doped) like flies is laughable in retrospect.
Click to expand...

And that is a pretty serious climb they are on, yes? It looks like a mild false flat when you look at their speed.
 
Alpe d'Huez

Alpe d'Huez

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tubularglue said:
Tony and his doctor on the track.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but his wife sure is pretty. :)

Actually liked Tony's aggressive riding style quite a bit, and he was a good racer, but in retrospect the way he had never raced on the track, and after a few spins, broke the hour record...

If you watch that Vandenbroucke clip there are a few spots where you can tell the gradient is fairly steep, and it's a big climb. In that group are Jiminez and Heras, two of the best climbers over the last 20 years, maybe ever, and Frankie drops them like they are neopros - and he doesn't seem to be expressing any serious effort at all while doing it. He just rides them all off his wheel. Hilarious.

Anyone have that clip on the Hautecam where Riis went to the front to set the pace, turned around to see how everyone was doing - only to find they weren't even there - he had dropped them without even trying to. That's a good one.

In the 1999 Giro Marco Pantani had ridden himself into all three jerseys (yes, even the Ciclomino, even though he's not a sprinter at all!) towards the end. Imagine if they hadn't have busted him - he would have been going for a back-to-back Giro-Tour double, and been up against the EPO'd-up Armstrong in the 1999 Tour. Bummer we couldn't see it. I mean, in the context of this thread, of course. ;)
 
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Martinello

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Bala Verde said:
When VDB ate his breakfast that day, I think he might have accidentally swallowed a moped that was chucked in his bowl of cheerios...
Click to expand...

not to mention the nitro-burning drag racer he ingested on the morning of the last stage that year in the Vuelta.

Igor Gonzales Galdeano led the points competition in the morning, but Frankie singlehandedly rode away from the entire Liberty Seguros team en route to Madrid. He grabbed the intermediate sprint points to take the points jersey from Galdeano.

Deep down, I feel sorry for Frankie. A fragile mind and great talent was a lethal combo in the 90's (and also nowadays). Plenty of drugs, plenty of DS, fellow riders and doctors to supply and no matter how much he screwed up, there was always another DS ready with a 'ride for food' contract the year after. The man should have been in a psychiatric hospital/rehab programme in 1999 but a lot of greedy teams kept tempting him.
 
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LastRide

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aarnold517 said:
Got to be VDB in the vuelta

Not only was he able to attack the favorites after setting an intense pace all the way up the mountain, but he also went on to win the stage, dropping the group by eighteen seconds after attacking with only about a kilometer to go. Ridiculously doped up performance but awesome nonetheless
Click to expand...

His 1999 season was awesome!
He was like Babe Ruth, so cocky, telling everyone where he would attack in L-B-L, doing it then winning.

Hell, i heard a rumour he had rainbow gloves in the team car in the WC that year and was going to go back to the car to put them on for the finish, he would have, except for that crash that broke both hands.
 
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LastRide

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Dr. Maserati said:
You are correct in saying "cheating" is part of the sporting nature - and indeed of human life.

However there is a massive difference in someone taking a dive in the penalty box, or biting a blood capsule so as your kicker can come on as a sub in Rugby, or holding on to a car then shooting up PED's.

Perhaps you should check out what graceful age Johannes Draaijer or Patrick Car lived to. Or what happened to retired riders like Pantani or Jimenez.
Also we have a former Pro on this forum - who gave details of the consequences of PED's on his family.

Yes -cheating will always be a part of life- but the use of PED's is not just cheating - it forces many to play Russian Roulette.
Click to expand...

I would be interested in reading this thread, can you give me some direction?

Thanks
 
Izoard

Izoard

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In looking back at these videos, I remembered how exciting some of these races seemed at the time ;)

I now know why - it was like a full on sprint-fest, even though they were going uphill!!
 
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Oldman

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Moller said:
Leipheimer riding the last TT of the '07 tdf faster than Indurain had ever ridden a TT.

Contador in the last TT of this year's Tdf.

Chiapucci at Sestries in 92
Click to expand...

A total hit and you read my mind! Chia-pet was always overstuffed with red cells.
Leipheimer's TT's have been suspect for some time.
 
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