Favourite "Dirty" Performance

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May 3, 2010
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That may or may not be true. My point was in response to someone who earlier mentioned at what point the lightbulb came on regarding doping in the peloton. For me Armstrong in 1999 was the 'road to Damascus' moment, because in my eyes his performance was so obviously doped and so obviously out of line with everything I had seen of him before. To then see him protected by the UCI and the media, while the likes of Pantani were hung out to dry simply brought it all into sharper focus for me.
 
mercycle said:
Not so sure if that's really a discriminator. Historically there are people that prefer to climb that way (think lots of the Columbians) and at about the same size/weight as Pantani, I'd guess he's not a sprinter. I'm not saying that he was clean, just that climbing out of the saddle for a relatively long distance isn't positive evidence of doping.
Did Robert Alban ever sit down when climbing?
 
kurtinsc said:
He was about a minute down to Zulle in the 56km TT in 1995... and a minute ahead in the 56km TT in 1999.
But that TT is not a good example of Zülle's abilities, since he flunked spectacularly. Which is why the following day he was allowed to go solo far away from La Plagne.

(Where, by the way, Indurain gave us another one of these stellar performances we're talking about)

Come to think of it, Zülle usually underperformed in long TTs at the TdF.
 
mastersracer said:
how about the 2003 stage to alpe d'huez; like the doper hall of fame: Mayo, Beloki, Hamilton, Vino, LA, Ullrich etc. going up so fast they have a hard time making it around the switchbacks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-y38WZAtgc&feature=PlayList&p=82CBEE3CDC2D917A&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=22
apart from Mayo, everyone else (LA; Beloki, Hamilton etc) were about minute faster than Contador, Brajkovic, Szmyd few days ago during Dauphine. So, it was not actually too fast...
 
Nov 17, 2009
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hrotha said:
But that TT is not a good example of Zülle's abilities, since he flunked spectacularly. Which is why the following day he was allowed to go solo far away from La Plagne.

(Where, by the way, Indurain gave us another one of these stellar performances we're talking about)

Come to think of it, Zülle usually underperformed in long TTs at the TdF.
Well, I'm okay with using other riders who were in both races for comparison... but Zulle was the only one I noticed in both from a quick glance. Most of the others ahead of Lance in 1995 didn't seem to be anywhere near the front in 1999 TT's.

While it's probably not a valid comparison... if Indurain had ridden the same pace in the 56.5km TT in 1999 that he did in the 54km TT in 1995... he'd have beaten Lance by about 1:15 to 1:30.

I have no idea if that's realistic based on the course and such... but I don't think Lance really moved up to ride as fast as Indurain. It would probably be more fair to say he moved up to ride about as fast as Evgeni Berzin did in '95.
 
Mar 22, 2010
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Thoughtforfood said:
Nina Hartley in Rule Breaker.
nina hartley, dude i got a dvd of her and frankly, my wife puts her to shame and that is NOT a compliment to my wife.

When the hell was that made? the 70's? and for the love of all things holy, what is UP with her voice? was she like, a former male? she REALLY grosses me out. I think she'd be happy doing her job for free, but so won't the gals at the local bar.
 
May 4, 2010
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Mongol_Waaijer said:
Wondering what everyone's favourite comically unrealistic and obvious "dirty" ride is?

Is it Bjarne Riis at Hautacam showing what a 60% crit can do?

Ricco riding up the Pyrenees on the 54?

Rasmussen and Contador sprinting up hill in tandem?

Schumacher winning TT's?

For the record my personal unbeatable classic has to be Lance @ Sestrieres in 1999.

The cream of established doped up Euro talent sprinting furiously in the slipstream of Lance, all of them going so fast that if you tilt your head it looks like a breakaway in a criterium. Lance looking cool and almost apologetic....when he rides away from them I swear he has to feather the brakes in the first corner....hilarious!

Zulle and Escartin, two established climbers looking like little boys on BMX's trying to chase a motorscooter.

I know that the guys in the press room were cracking up - things had suddenly gotten back to 1998 levels of ridiculousness.
I just bought and watched the 1999 TDF DVD, and I agree that Lance's ride up Sestrieres was humorously ridiculous. He looked like he was on a Kawasaki, not a Trek.

For honorable mention, I would submit SPRINTER Thor Hushovd's raging ride through the Alps during Stage 17 in 2009 - I believe he summited first over the Cole de Saises and the Cote d'Araches before finally collapsing and "allowing" the Schlecks, Contador and Kloden to take the Col de Romme and the Col de la Colombriere.

But my all-time favorite was Riccardo Ricco's blitzkrieg during the 2008 Tour de France. After finishing 2nd in the Giro that year, Ricco was 9th during the 2nd week of the Tour de France and closing, and held the polka dot jersey, with supersonic mountain accelerations, before being CERA-fied. I think Ricco was on his way to winning the Tour, and I could only laugh at his mountain performances, which made Ullrich, Basso, Kohl, Schumacher and many others over the years look like chumps in comparison.
 

mastersracer

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Jun 8, 2010
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Von Mises said:
apart from Mayo, everyone else (LA; Beloki, Hamilton etc) were about minute faster than Contador, Brajkovic, Szmyd few days ago during Dauphine. So, it was not actually too fast...
but it's not just about average speed - on that climb there was a large group marking each other, attacking, then marking each other again. The attacks are brutal. The same riders have some of the fastest mt time trial times (Mayo record on Ventoux, Hamilton right behind him).
 
Feb 21, 2010
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I recall Michele Bartoli stomping upon the juiced-to-the-gills pair of Jalabert and Zulle at some of the Classics (LBL?, Flanders?) in the late 90's (97, 98?).

Bartoli made them look silly. The whole scenario was silly. Bartoli quit when he was ahead, seems smart in hindsight, considering.
 
Mar 13, 2009
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Cavendishes sprint at San Remo last year.

Or one year when Bettini rode away from a group at either Zurich or San Sebastian. Put about 3 or 4 minutes into second place.
 
mastersracer said:
but it's not just about average speed - on that climb there was a large group marking each other, attacking, then marking each other again. The attacks are brutal. The same riders have some of the fastest mt time trial times (Mayo record on Ventoux, Hamilton right behind him).
Same could be said about Conatdor vs Brajkovic= attacking and marking and standing still and attacking...

I have no doubt that these guys were doped in 2003, but the eye can be deceiving, especially if video is pumped up with appropriate music and editing.

I would say that if you took neutral observers (without prior knowledge) and let them watch two climbs: first 40 minutes, second 42 minutes and ask them later which one was quicker, I am not sure they can all give correct answer.
 
May 17, 2010
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Gesinks performance today. More than his performance today, the list of people who blew apart trying to catch him. ya i know its not the tour yet so these guys arent peaking but its close enough, Lance obviously started his regiment so i assume the others have as well.

Id also question Tony Martin during the ToC. He marked sooo many attacks at big bear as well as pulling the peleton 90% of the time and came back the next day to beat Levi in a TT.
 
Jan 18, 2010
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Liquigas Giro TTT win was good. didnt lose any riders including mountain specialists and they end up battering Columbia, Sky, Garmin, Astana all packed with strong flat terrain riders.

Also Richard Virenque on countless stages- too many to mention.
 
May 3, 2010
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TDS is certainly giving us some old school performances. The word has obviously gone out to the peloton that it is 1999 again.
 
Jun 30, 2009
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marcus burghardt is bringing me back to the good 'ol days of 2008-2009 vintage davide rebellin. very fun to watch.
 
May 29, 2010
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I believe it was the 1991 World's (or was it the '84 olympics?) when the Italians crushed the TTT, 100 km. average speed was around 53 km/hr. Everyone knew something had changed in cycling, there was quite a buzz. I can't find much on the web about this event but I certainly remember it.

Best dirty non-performance was PDM (later to become festina) pulling out of the 1991 TdF - the entire team. Word spread quickly that the doctor screwed up. It was, years later, revealed that it was E.P.O. related.
 
Sep 9, 2009
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Mrs John Murphy said:
TDS is certainly giving us some old school performances. The word has obviously gone out to the peloton that it is 1999 again.
I haven't been able to watch, but reading the results has made me think as much. Which are the stand-out performances you're thinking of?
 
Jul 12, 2009
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lightandlongshadows said:
I believe it was the 1991 World's when the Italians crushed the TTT, 100 km. average speed was around 53 km/hr. Everyone knew something had changed in cycling, there was quite a buzz. I can't find much on the web about this event but I certainly remember it.

Best dirty non-performance was PDM (later to become festina) pulling out of the 1991 TdF - the entire team. Word spread quickly that the doctor screwed up. It was, years later, revealed that it was E.P.O. related.
I heard about this with the PDM team. Didn't the doctor actually hurt those boys, as they all had bad reactions?
 
Mar 13, 2009
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blackcat said:
Cavendish San Remo 2009.

Never seen a sprinter chase down another sprinter, and put ten lengths into the bunch, in the last 250 metres.

Cav riding 260 kms, is not credible, even accounting for the first 100km piano tranquillo, but that sprint was something else.
Cav was doing this burst of speed as a junior... and was put into the track madison for experience... and at 18 became world champ... I have faith that Cav has the natural turn of speed. The MilRemo was like a track ending, something Cav is used to.
 
May 29, 2010
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bridgeman said:
I heard about this with the PDM team. Didn't the doctor actually hurt those boys, as they all had bad reactions?
I can only find what you can find. Of interest are statements like these:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/archives/dec97/dec1.html
"President of the UCI, Hein Verbruggen, said when he was told of the intrapilid catastrophe, "the greatest poisoner of West Europe". The French doctor, Jean-Daniel Fleysakier said the riders would have been very ill with "high fever, a feeling like influenza, muscle pain and neck cramp, typical of of an overdose of EPO.""

"This week, the PDM manager of the day Manfred Krikke spoke, after he was confronted with the revelations, though reluctantly: "When we started PDM we decided that we would not be the most ethical team in the peloton. The one rule imposed from the PDM directors was that there was to be "no drug affairs" rather than "no drug taking. Within this direction, we experimented with products that were just within or over the edge of legality. Just like in other sports. We were not doing anything that the other teams were doing.""

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/PDM_(cycling_team)

Doping affair
In November, 1997 Cyclingnews.com reported about an inquiry that had just been made public in The Netherlands.[5]This inquiry appeared to reveal doping in the PDM cycling team. The doctor of the team from between 1990 and 1991 was Wim Sanders who was the centre of the investigation which was reported to have been initiated when the General Manager of the team, Manfred Krikke, called the FIOD (Fiscal Information and Investigation Service) to investigate the medical business of the team. It was said that Wim Sanders supplied anabolic steroids and EPO to the team and was responsible for the ‘intralipid affair’of the 1991 Tour de France.[5] According to cyclingnews.com, 1990 was the height of the drug taking in the team and during this year, two riders had to stop with acute heart problems[5]; whether this refers to stopping with professional cycling or performance enchaning drugs is unclear. Team manager Gisbers denied any knowledge of doping in the team.[4]


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Peter van Petegem
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Raúl Alcalá
 
Sep 9, 2009
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lightandlongshadows said:
I can only find what you can find. Of interest are statements like these:

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/PDM_(cycling_team)


Famous riders
Gerrie Knetemann
Steven Rooks
Gert-Jan Theunisse
Adrie van der Poel
Erik Breukink
Maarten den Bakker
Jean-Paul van Poppel
Greg Lemond
Sean Kelly
Peter van Petegem
Pedro Delgado
Raúl Alcalá
Eh? Lemond rode for PDM in 1988. Rather odd to include him in a discussion about 1990 and 1991.
 

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